it's soooo satisfying.....

[Colovion]

You know when you have an army that is sitting in a borderland and suddenly there is a peasant revolt? They have a few thousand troops - all peasants. You have your troops, hardy, battle ready. For me at that time it was a smattering of Vikings Mercenaries, Horse Archers, Byz Inf, Spearmen and had an heir's Kataphraktoi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Needless to say I lost about 12 troops, captured over 1,000 of theirs and killed most of the rest before they all got away.

I'm sure everyone has fought, and beaten huge armies of peasants.... for some reason it just feels awesome to know that you're going to work the other side even before starting the battle.

[Somebody Else]

I had that sort of thing once. The Poles invaded with about a thousand spearmen and woodsmen. I had about 800 claymores, clansmen and longbowmen lined up against them. With a 6* Norman knights general. I thought I was going to make mincemeat out of them. I ended up winning, just - having lost about 300-400 men. Quite a shock I can tell you. Made up for it by defeating an Italian army - ~1300 kills for 16 men lost.

Playing MedMod on hard by the way.

[Ghostmonkey]

Ah, the peasant revolt, my favorite. I've only had one of note. It was in my Danish campaign, I had just started and had maybe 200 spearmen some Vikings and the Heir of my king vs 1500 peasants and 100 Italian Inf. It was a slaughter, but they kept rallying after I routed them. I guess they really wanted a beating.

[Colovion]

Heh, yeah I've had a battle with 1500 peasants against two hundred Spearmen, I just took a hill and waited. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[octavian]

my record for that is 2,000 peasants, one unit of royal knights and one fmaa, won easily, fmaa tied em down, knights brutalized their left flank and ran along the whole lenth of their line, lost about 20 Fmaa, and 2 Royal Knights.

[katank]

@somebody else.

victory over the italians is amazing.

how did you manage it? I always have hell with pavisiers and italian light

[Somebody Else]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 26 2004,05:16)]@somebody else.

victory over the italians is amazing.

how did you manage it? I always have hell with pavisiers and italian light
First time I did it - I was attacking over a bridge. On that particular map, my longbowmen could easily shoot over the river. Plus their general had a -6 morale vice, so whenever their troops made it near my men, they ran.

Second time, I was defending Burgundy, it was one of those valley maps, I just set up on top of the hill, with eleven units of longbowmen, and shot them all up before they reached me. Those that did, met a charge by my two units of claymores and two units of Norman knights.

Strangely enough, I had the same army for both battles. The bridge must have been when I was attacking Burgundy...

Don't forget, I'm only playing on hard.

*If you really want, I think I saved a replay of one of them. It's quite uninteresting though...*

**I also just remembered, I turned fatigue and ammo off at some point and forgot to turn them back on. I really should change that.**

[katank]

oh yeah, forgot about bridge battles/massed longbows

ever tried the french when all you have is destriders and they don't do that hot against pavisiers?

anyhow, massed longbows are crazy powerful. why did wes make them available in early? maybe just enable billmen too to make english really OP. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Somebody Else]

The longbows do have a ridiculous range...

I haven't yet - this is my first campaign with WesMod - which is why I'm playing on hard.

I'll probably try the French one of these days, but as I've said before, I don't much like using cavalry - they're too expensive. Besides, I see so many spear types up against me all the time, I hardly see the point. I do find them useful to chase routers and horse archers, and having some is handy for flanking. But most of the work I do with infantry and archers.

[Drake]

While Longbows are indeed very powerful, they suffer as do most archers at the hands (or more accurately hooves) of any type of calvary coming in for an attack. Having a huge range is fine when facing infantry, but if you can't hit the them then you may as well be flahsing them for al the good it's gonna do. I notice often when archers fire at calvary the only time they score a hit is when their within a few feet and about to clash, but to do that they have to be, as noted, about to clash, and if their in that proximity then they're a wee big screwed.

Billmen seem to compensate for this for the English but when you look at it it's quite easy to charge at archers, have the billmen step in front and for you to stop your calvary short, move around the billmen and get the archers anway. The billmen get stuck in a paradox of priorities. Do they turn and save the archers thus turning their backson anything else coming, or stand and face any back up units and allow the slaughter to go on unhindered? Either way, the situation depends not only on the units in question but more on the skills of the general. Any commander can cancel out a unit's effectiveness by good tactics, which is what strategy is all baout. Reading in PC Gamer (UK) that Rome:TW is intended to focus more on formations and charge points rtaher then on unit types. Should be interesting.

[Schrodinger's Cat]

Quote[/b] ]I notice often when archers fire at calvary the only time they score a hit is when their within a few feet and about to clash, but to do that they have to be, as noted, about to clash, and if their in that proximity then they're a wee big screwed.


I've never had any complaints about archers vs cavalry. Granted they won't hit much if the cavalry are running, but if they do that all the way across the archers' range, then they've left their infantry behind and spears and flankers will mop them up very nicely.
If the cav are walking, then they're easy to hit. My archer units in battles tend to pair up on any Royal Knights or equivalent and the general, and if you can get two units of archers on a walking unit of Royal Knights, you can easily take out 10-15 before the melee begins.

Schrodie's Cat

[katank]

I don't think archers can be expected to hit chargin cav for game balance reasons.

best way is to have a few spears or other rabble in the front to tie up the cav and make them big stationary targets for the archers.

as to drake, I rarely have AI do clever uses of cav but instead it charges straight into my spear wall most of the time and gets slaughtered by flanking swords/rear attacking cav/archers firing into the melee.

[Ellesthyan]

Heh Somebody, that's strange; I actually have the impression that the cavalry in the early medmod campaigns is ridiculously easy obtained and rather powerful to boot. Wait until you've faced an all Polish Retainer army, or the Destrider hordes... They'll move to you just out of bow range, then they march quickly in a long line of cavalry, until they can crash into your already almost wavering lines. Even spear units (except the Italians, possibly) can't hold a cavalry charge for long.

EDIT: Katank, the cavalry is sometimes so numerous you won't have units left to flank with... What to do then?

[Somebody Else]

Yep - I'm currently in a war with the Poles (the Italians just kicked the bucket) I have had some trouble with their cavalry, but that's where trees demonstrate their use. Admittedly, as well as disliking cavalry, I also dislike spearmen. I'm just strange in that respect. Polearms though... them I do like. I'll just have to get some. My whole line wavering? Not happened yet, but then again, I haven't fought a battle against them with anything but a 6* general. Plus my armies are composed of claymores, clansmen and longbowmen. Claymores and clansmen, only seem to run towards the enemy I've discovered.

[Colovion]

Quote[/b] (Ellesthyan @ May 27 2004,00:29)]EDIT: Katank, the cavalry is sometimes so numerous you won't have units left to flank with... What to do then?
I guess that would depend on the situation... but taking the high ground always helps.

[Ellesthyan]

Well... I'll suggest you try playing HRE next. Then your spearunits are the only things you can rely on; they won't run away immediately when they get hit by the enemy (who has ALWAYS superior armies, being them the über Italian spearmen, the über French cavalry, the über Hungarian horse archers, the über Danish axemen... You know what Im talking about). You'll be broke most of the time, leaving many borders insufficiently, or not at all, defended. Then every quality unit is worth its weight in gold... Of course, unless you rush the whole game. HRE is nigh impossible on GA in the medmod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Colovion]

Yeah I'm on Byz right now - it's so easy after you trash the Turks and Eggys. Almohads are gone and soon the Novograds and Spanish - two fronts, hoping Hungary won't attack as that would stretch my forces mighty thin.

[katank]

so true.

medmod is completely different matter.

archers aren't meant to be coutners to cav in any way, shape or form and medmod means smarter AI and hordes of heavy cav.

But then again, what can counter hordes of heavy cav without using terrain except for your own heavy cav hordes?

I would bet on swords in forests.

spear wall with flanker swords and archers is meant for only small numbers of cav with good position.

ie, use HAs to lure imeptuous knights to a hill with massed archers firing over the spear wall.

cav gets confused and angry at the fire and charges straight into spear wall.

you're quite right, the medmod HRE is probably the most difficult situation.

rushing might not even solve the problem as some lone italian inf or pavisier slaughters half your starting force.

also, the herrbans and knechtes are all not quite up to par with your rival's counterparts.

only swabian swordsmen and diensulte (sp?) seem to shine.

[Mightypeon]

hehe, try HRE in 1.85 where they dont have Slav warriors or Swabian swordmen...
However, I agree that rushing italy is invaluable.
They are goign to attack (at least on expert) on turn one anyway, so you might as well take Milan and Venice.
One importnat thing is to use your King.
At least in my games he is the only quality unit in the start.
In addition, getting brave leader and so on seems to increase the loyality (I assume that it has somehting to do with the Chivraly event) as well as increasing dread and so on. (Could it be that your Kings dread is also a factor to determine wether the AI attacks you or not?)
I usually build my production stuff in the kinda shielded provinces, helps a lot and protects them a bit.
A thing that I found out in wars agaisnt the french:
If you raze Isle de France and they raze Burgundy you tend to be better off overall.

[Colovion]

haha - just had a couple peasant revolts. 3K peasants against my byz inf/spear/archers/kaptoi.

I slaughter one wave, they rout, then their reinforcments show up, get slaughtered, repeat.

You'd think that the fleeing and disordered peasants running away would tip the rest off that maybe they shouldn't step onto the field. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif