The key to defending castles!!!!

[Ragss]

If this is common knowledge, im a complete idiot...

So the mongols invade, they assult one of my fortresses, they have a few thousand, I have about 180 peasants and 5 alan merc cavalry. Things start as usual, my first gate falls in a matter of minutes as my own ballista towers shoot it down, then they continue on the the second gate, And I notice something...the entire outer wall has stopped firing Things continue like this until they breach the final gate and its lights out for me.

But I start thinking, and an idea pops into my head. So I reload the quicksave, but this time I place one group of peasants (they were split into groups of 43, I had about 5 of these) at the very back of each ring, including outside the outer wall. The battle starts, the first gate falls due to my ballista, then they move to the second gate...the first ring is still firing This time, instead of 13 deaths at the second gate, they had about 80. Long story short, I beat them pretty easily. They never even went after me peasants in the back to stop the other walls from shooting.


Wow, that ended up being kinda long, sorry...(its 4am if things dont make sense http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-zzz.gif )

[Colovion]

Yeah the first time I defended a castle.... well it was a fort actually.... I didn't remember that the Fort fired arrows and charged down the hill once the enemy had broken through the wall instead of staying as close to the arrow slinging Fort. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif I haven't defended one since as I'm usually on the offense. Now I have to practice assaulting them.

[katank]

yep, hiding lone, half dead ballistas at back while also some hard core melee troops at gates can make the fortress actually hold.

[Cazbol]

Once the assaulting force has entered the outer ring and cleared out the last defenders they are considered in control of the outer wall and the outer wall therefore stops firing at them. It is therefore highly important for the defenders to keep a presence there as long as possible.

Taking of the inner ring first has the same effect.

[Imperial Buffoon]

If you have a *fast* cavalry unit, you can start the assault defense with it close to the gates (they open for your troops) or outside. This is very useful, especially if the attackers start on the back of the castle, as they will often still attack the gates. If you harass troops a bit (any HA-type which is fast, or jinettes work wonders), the AI sends spears forward, which then get assassinated by your towers. You can also make the AI pursue your units along the wall, they will rout due to many casualties from arrow fire.

[Cazbol]

Excellent advice. I'll have to try that if I ever get the chance.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ May 27 2004,10:41)]Once the assaulting force has entered the outer ring and cleared out the last defenders they are considered in control of the outer wall and the outer wall therefore stops firing at them. It is therefore highly important for the defenders to keep a presence there as long as possible.

Taking of the inner ring first has the same effect.
Is this effect permanent?

Meaning: if I clear the outer courtyard, and place a unit in it the outer towers will stop firing. When I march that unit out again, will the outer towers resume fire?

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ May 27 2004,10:41)]Once the assaulting force has entered the outer ring and cleared out the last defenders they are considered in control of the outer wall and the outer wall therefore stops firing at them. It is therefore highly important for the defenders to keep a presence there as long as possible.

Taking of the inner ring first has the same effect.
Question. Last night I played a citadelle defense battle against the Horde. The barbican was firing rocks at the gathering horde, causing a lot of casualties.
It stopped firing when my gate was forced open, even when I had a few units of varangian guards welcoming the instorming Horde cavalry.

Is this normal? I would expect it to continue firing, or is the barbican dependent on the castle gate?

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] ]Meaning: if I clear the outer courtyard, and place a unit in it the outer towers will stop firing. When I march that unit out again, will the outer towers resume fire?

I'm really not sure. I prefer to err on the side of caution and always leave one unit in the courtyards I have captured. As a result I have never seen whether they start firing again if I leave the area.


Quote[/b] ]Question. Last night I played a citadelle defense battle against the Horde. The barbican was firing rocks at the gathering horde, causing a lot of casualties.
It stopped firing when my gate was forced open, even when I had a few units of varangian guards welcoming the instorming Horde cavalry.

Is this normal? I would expect it to continue firing, or is the barbican dependent on the castle gate?

I would think no, this is not normal. I believe the outer walls should keep firing until the outer ring is completely under the attacker's control. Sadly, I can't be 100% sure.

The only info I have on this is what is written on page 57 in the manual:
"Fortifications will stop firing at attackers once the area they 'belong' to within the castle has fallen to the attackers."

My experience seems to verify this but it can be hard to be absolutely sure about where the arrows are coming from.

[katank]

every last defender has to be cleared out for the walls to stop firing and if you move out again, then they would resume firing.

I believe entirely empty area also means firing.

[Oaty]

They will never fire again if you at 1 time had no troops in the castle while the enmy is within the confines of the castle. (found out when my skirmishers were outside and they had cleared the castle and I had brought them back in)

As far as the barbican It would be understandable that it stops firing as it is not really an outer wall but an extension of the gatehouse. Only way to find out for sure is to do some customs and assault it and always have a troop or 2 close but not to close to the barbican and see when it stops firing.

Now how does a castle work in multiplayer because it seems that the towers run out of ammo instead of the breaching the wall theory. I remember the back half of the castle stopped firing while the front still had arrows going

[Ragss]

I also noticed something huge, that should be common knowledge...

I always assumed that going from a castle straight to a citadel would automatically upgrade the towers to catapult. Or that going from cit. to fort. would auto give you a barbican....but this isnt the case. I havent expermented with this yet, as it would take 100 years, but it seems that taking some of those upgrades (eg, catapult towers) along the way will make your end product much better....Also, once you go from castle to citadel, you cant make the towers catapult anymore...

[Imperial Buffoon]

I thought that was the case, although some people seem to disagree in this (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=18441) thread.
I don't have the machine with MTW with me. Has anyone tested this properly? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
IB

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ May 28 2004,07:16)]As far as the barbican It would be understandable that it stops firing as it is not really an outer wall but an extension of the gatehouse.
Yes, it would probably make sense to link the firing barbican to the closed gatehouse then.

There was another thing that I noticed, in the same citadelle defense.

So my first gate is forced open. Barbican stops firing.

Horde moves to walls at the left of the barbican, and stands within the ranges of the towers, in arrow fire, and gets slaughtered (stupid ai).

But: I still see rocks flying through the air, even though not at the same interval as when firing by the barbican. So I zoom in to the barbican to make sure the rocks don't come from there. Checked, double-checked. Rocks come from somewhere else.

Started checking for catapult towers. Found only ballista towers & arrow towers.

Conclusion: so the Keep fires the rocks then.
Thus: keep = upgraded to highest level of projectile firing tower (arrow/ballista/catapult/cannon)?

Does this make sense, or am I totally wrong here?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-huh.gif

[katank]

I think every upgrade from previous levels is integrated although the graphics may not be there.

thus, the rocks may just seem to fly from walls while in reality they shoudl be from catapult towers, just that if you did indeed have all the upgrades shown visually, the fortification would look too crowded. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif