Combat Bonus

[NoTalent]

hi,

I've lifte most of this from Frogbeasts excellent guide, and various other posts here, I want to clarify
a few things, basic stuff to alot of you, but new to me:

1)Swords +1 attack vs spears
2)Spears +1 att. +4 defense vs Cavalry/camels.
3) Polearms +3 att, +1 def vs Cav/Camels
4) Camels +3 att vs Cavalty in desert
5) Horses -4 att vs Camels all terrain
6)Camels -1 att vs Cavalry outside a desert

Large shields: +2 def and armour
All cavalry and small shields: +1 def and armour
Pavise shields: +3 armour

Here is the bit that is really confusing me, bear with me here:

Feudal knights.
Charge 8 Attack 4 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 8 Cost 425 Support cost 105

Dismount: During a siege to get feudal foot knights. Feudal knights have a large shield and a lance.


So, in real terms, Feudal Knights have armour 4 (+2 large shield) (+1 for being cavalry) = 7

their defense is 3 (+2 large sheild) (+1 for being cavalry) = 6

so, any Polearm unit fighting Feudal Knights, would get a bonus of: 7 - 1/2 = +3 attack.

Using Urban Miltia as an example:

Urban militia.
Charge 4 Attack 2 Defence -1 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 0 Cost 100 Support cost 30

this unit vs feudal knights would have an attack of 2 (+3 for Knights armour bonus) (+3 vs Cavalry) = 8

the defense for UM would be -1 (+1 vs Cavalry) = 0


I am rather confused about all this, any help is much appreciated.


cheers

NT

[CBR]

Feudal knights (FK) only have a cavalry shield so thats +1 armor/defense.

FK have armor 4 +1 from shield for a total of 5. Defense is 3 +1 from shield.

A polearm unit will get the +3 attack/+1 defense when fighting cavalry and it will also get some attack bonus based on the armor of the target (as its an armorpiercing weapon)


Inf armor: attack bonus

1-2: +0
3-4: +1
5-6: +2

Cavalry armor: attack bonus
1-3: +0
4-5: +1
6-7: +2
8-9: +3

The shield in not included in the armor when calculating armor piercing attack bonus.

Urban militia are actually only armed with an axe. They sure look like they have a polearm but they dont get the special bonus versus cavalry. But still armor piercing weapon though.


CBR

[NoTalent]

Thanks for clearing that up, though in the guide UM are
described a peasant level Polearm, but no bother, I will amend my notes.

If you are still feeling helpful, armour upgrades, is this correct:

bronze +1 armour
silver +2
gold +3

The same goes for the weapons upgrade,

broncze +1 att etc

thanks again

NT

[ichi]

Thats right, each level of armor upgrade adds +1 to armor and defense, weapon upgrades add +1 for each level to attack bonus. An increase in valor raises attack and defense, but not armor.

Charge bonus is static, unchaged by upgrades.

ichi

[katank]

@ NT, iron is +1, bronze is +2, silver is +3, gold is +4 for A & W

shields are not part of armor piercing calculations

also, pole arms include: halb, swiss halb, billmen, JHI, CFK and nothing else IIRC.

at least these are the only ones with +3, +1 vs. cav from looking at the unit files.

[NoTalent]

My thanks to the 3 of you for replying, I think that's everything I need to know stat-wise. Time to put it into practise.........

cheers

NT

[katank]

glad to be of help http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

I don't think it matters that much in practice though, just knowing that some are anti cav and some aren't is good enough.

choosing polearms or spears from high onward is interesting.

spears last more and polearms kill more.

best to hold with spear and flank with polearms for maximum results at low casualties.

Though if I had to choose, I rather go with polearms as they can also fight swords reasonably.

*dreaming about billmen supporting massed logbows again, must go boot up an english campaign now*

[son of spam]

Trust me, NT, massed heavy cav gets you the best results every single time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

*starts dreaming of 16 gold/gold lancers*

Besides, with Heavy Cav, there is none of this flanking nonsense. You don't even have to issue orders, because they are impetuous Imagine, being able to go eat dinner, and come back to find the battle won, and the enemy routing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[katank]

umm, arbs backed by buffed chiv sarges/polearms will eat your all heavy cav army for breakfast at far less cost.

I don't recommend this unless you are willing to tosse 850*16=13600 florins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

down the drain in face of free arbs bolts and some cheapo heavy spears.

cav is all about mobility, flanking, rear attacking.

impetuousity isn't for laziness.

However, a massed heavy cav rush can be refreshing.

I just prefer massed sword rush instead as that's not as vulnerable to say the whole nemy army parked in the woods

[NoTalent]

I hear you Son of Spam, Cavalry rushes can be alot of fun, when lining up for a battle I can pick a cost effective combo of Spear/Arb/Sword/Cav/etc or if I really want to let rip I go a bit overboard on the Cavalry, I know I'm going to take more losses, but dammit, it's tremendous fun lining
up your Armenian HvyCav etc for a big charge.

I only tend to do this in battles I'm sure I will win. None of this carry on when facing the GH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

cheers

NT

[WorkNeglecter]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 29 2004,23:46)]spears last more and polearms kill more.
Beg to differ

Defending bridges or castles against the horde I had much better luck with halbs than chiv sergeants. The halbs lasted at lot longer. Their famous morale problem was the only drawback, but built in a church/monastery province they resisted until they hit the 15/18 man mark (and CS are just as prone to run).

[RedKnight]

Quote[/b] (katank @ May 29 2004,16:46)]*dreaming about billmen supporting massed logbows again, must go boot up an english campaign now*

This would not look real pretty if the other guy had lots of archers, since the bills don't have shields... would you try an army like this vs. a lot of archers? I recall seeing another thread where folks talked about leaving a gap in their line to tease in attackers... I've always gone for a solid wall approach (sargeants shielding my archers)... if you could tempt the enemy to pretty quickly waste his attack troops, and the rest of his army was archers (which you could then rush), you could still take him down with just bills and longbows, eh? Do you do that?

I'm finishing a Late English expert game, pretty much on iron-man mode; was looking for a challenge... still too easy... but it's a huge pain that you don't have the great whopping time window to build up province's capabilities all you want (this is my first Late game)... hmm, now for a real challenge... maybe a High Danes game??