sword help

[chris]

I went to a fell market and bought a sword that looked either very real or very authentic. Personally i dont care if it was very authentic becuase i only paid 25 bux for it, but my curiosity is getting th best of me.

1. On the pommel and ends of the handgaurd there are several markings showing three sets of three leaves in a cricle with a dot between each set and on in the middle. like this (of course they are lined up better on the sword, l stands for set of leaves.)
L . L
.
.L.

2. the pommel has four holes in it with arcs that curve around to meat the holes, in between each hole there is that a etching of those leaves and dots

3. the grip is made of twisted steal wire two lines twisted and then wrapped around the handle.

4. the handgrip is striagh across with an indent on the end like this )

5. also on the handgrip is the following in scription which i only barely was able to find half of the translation, Tanto mento, mento tanto which means when much mounts mount much. the other side says this, Me Mento Meto, Mater Det Met. I got online to several online latin english dictionaries and cant find anything. I tried portugese, italian and something called esperanto, no luck.

can anyone tell me if this sword may be authoentic, and if they cant translate or point me in the right direction? thank you in advance, if i can get my digital camera workin i will post pics on a site.

[nick_maxell]

I have no clue about the markings but had a closer look at the inscription and did some looking around:

tanto could derivate from tantus which means 'so great' or 'so much' as an adjective in the 3rd case matching mento as the 3rd case of 'mentis' which means 'intellect, plan judgement' - the repeat could be in the 6th case meaning I must have much plan - so my translation would be:

(I have) a lot of intellect/plan (so I have to have) a lot of intellect/plan

I have to look for alternatives for mentis tough because the declanation doesn t fit - the middleages were known to deviate from classic latin a lot so they didn t care for rules any longer and the abbreviations they used are horrifying ;)

second side: me could mean 'me' and meto has two possibillities: 1) to reap, mow, cut off or
2) to measure out, mark off

considering it is a sword I d go with 1) ;)

mater

mother, foster mother; lady, matron; origin, source, motherland, mother city;

det

give; dedicate; sell; pay; grant/bestow/impart/offer/lend; devote; allow; make; surrender/give over; send to die; ascribe/attribute; give birth/produce; utter;


meto

reap; mow, cut off;
measure off, mark out;

met

could be a form of 'metere' - see meto

hope thats helps - sorry my latin is more than rusty



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[octavian]

post some pics, its kinda hard to guess at it just from looking at text. also what is the weight, type of metal, etc. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Woreczko]

Quote[/b] ]meto

reap; mow, cut off;
measure off, mark out;

met

could be a form of 'metere' - see meto

Maybe it`s from metus - fear

Mento meto could be some form of ablativus absolutus. So maybe: I`m remembering about fear, mother gives fear.
Or: I would remember about fear if mother gave it (to me).

However, neither of this translations seem correct to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif Maybe it`s just someone`s fantasy?

[nick_maxell]

Quote[/b] (Woreczko @ May 31 2004,01:51)]
Quote[/b] ]meto

reap; mow, cut off;
measure off, mark out;

met

could be a form of 'metere' - see meto

Maybe it`s from metus - fear

Mento meto could be some form of ablativus absolutus. So maybe: I`m remembering about fear, mother gives fear.
Or: I would remember about fear if mother gave it (to me).

However, neither of this translations seem correct to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif Maybe it`s just someone`s fantasy?
metus is a good idea - I have overlooked that one but was thinking about the ablativus absolutus - metus fits better than mens (I think the ablativ would be menti in this declanation but as stated my latin is more than rusty) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

nick

[chris]

OK i will go weigh it and post pics once i find the stupid batteries for my camera. Tanto Mento Mento Tanto i found means, When much mounts mount much kind of middle ages when the going gets tought he tough get going. The handle and hand cross gaurd have a greyish color with spots of green tarnish, pointing towards copper of brass. I will get the weight but i will tell you its got quite of bit of it, lol. The only things that are throwing of its authenticity if that fact that if you look closely in between the cover of light (flag) rust you can see an almost shiney surface, so either its new than i would have hoped or it has been very well taken care of. Also on the handgaurd it has aline in the middle of the top, something that most i have talked to say is a sign of newer manufacturing. I will make sure i get that in the pics. well ty for the help



i got the weight, 3.1 lbs
lenght 48 from tip to pommel
38 blade
10 handle


there are also markes on the blade, one of the men at my church suggested that they were marks from forging. My camera is not wanting to work right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif but i will keep trying. stupid windows http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Imperial Buffoon]

Quote[/b] (chris @ May 29 2004,19:59)]5. also on the handgrip is the following in scription which i only barely was able to find half of the translation, Tanto mento, mento tanto which means when much mounts mount much. the other side says this, Me Mento Meto, Mater Det Met. I got online to several online latin english dictionaries and cant find anything. I tried portugese, italian and something called esperanto, no luck.
I'll base whatever I tell you on the inscription: Tanto monta, monta tanto, often abriged as an anagram showing TMT, was the devise of the Catholic Kings (Isabel of Castille and Fernando of Aragon, getting married in the mid 15th century formed the first kings of Spain). The devise was in full Tanto monta, monta tanto, Isabel como Fernando meaning Isabel mounts as much as Fernando, this was representative of the equality in power between the king and queen and therefore between Aragon and Castille (although Isabel/castille probably had the upper hand in political matters).

I'm not sure about the second inscription, would have to see it.

Look at the leaves markings, do they look anything like lys flowers (the french shields in MTW)?

IB

[chris]

hey all, just wanted you to know that the mistery is solved. i took it to a medieval reenactor how runs a sword shop/jewelry shop in town and he said it was a cheap copy of a scottish sword. the metal wasnt good netal, and it had no fuller down the blade. it was just roughly made. anyways it was a good shot and ty for all the help i now have a nice wallpeice