Vice&Virtue

[hundurinn]

Well i'm sorry if this has been a recent topic but I didn't find it with search.

Anyway. It seems that every general or king that is of some value ends up being a complete moron, inbred bastard, alcoholic, or a bloody coward or a pervert. Well maybe this is a sign about my life but I doubt it. I was playing as Egypt and got Nur Al Din or what ever his name is. I was like HOLY HELL 6 star general I have to make him governor of Constantinople. Preparing him to destroy the Turks he got the inbred virtue and later on it turned out that he is a inbread bastard with odd number of toes.

So my question is. Is that normal that every faction I play it turnes out that every king, prince and general are bloody bastards with absolute no "normal" vice&virtue?
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[katank]

these odd number of toes or inbred vices are quite random.

if you are so inclined, you can reload to breed the perfect 9* general.

however, that's cheap and you might get him killed by a catapult shot or exploding bombard anyhow.

BTW, good vices can also happen like gentle knight.

the leader vices also can't be farmed IIRC.

don't worry about it.

just keep your empire reasonably small and keep your king at high influence and most likely things would go well.

BTW, whatever did you do to saladin to turn him into a bum with odd number of toes? just kidding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[son of spam]

Probably he put saladin's dad next to a incestuous pervert of a gen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[hundurinn]

His father married his sister. Isn't that okay?

Just messing with you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Then i'll just keep slaughtering byzantnies devils with him.

[katank]

it's not a problem really.

why don't you just use the 6* camel general that you start with though?

that one should be your primary general as that one has fine leader with +4 morale.

BTW, if you took Const, aren't the Byz pretty much dead anyhow?

just push them off the mainland, sink their ships and keep them as a captive trade partner.

[hundurinn]

Guess what The general I start with is a sybatie (think thats right) -4 to valor and he has another bad vice&virtue can't remember that.
You'd be surprised to see what the Byzantinies are strong after loosing Constantinople. They were always sending in force from far away and attacking poorly defended provinces. At least I slaughtered them and my king was Bloodthirsty. Now the French are attacking me and my few generals that have some good vice&virtues are doing well.

[katank]

how did he get sybarite?

I think you are a bad vice magnet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif just for your highest ranking generals.

are you doing really, really well? I never seen both these top generals get bad vices, even on expert.

[Ragss]

I got a question about this, I have a great 9 star general who I just realized is a Dead Drunk, meaing -15 health (I think...). Does this mean he personally has -15? Is it him and his guards? Or is it every soldier in his army?

[katank]

only himself.

this is equivalent of -5 lives for him

I think he's just about an ordinary guy now in combat or even worse and may die if you sneeze on him.

so don't charge him in wedge formation.

[hundurinn]

It seems that bad luck and vice&virtues follow me what ever I do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Wow that sucks.
I once lost my own general, 6 stars to alchohol
he died a glorius death while drunk.
-Capo

[Ragss]

Yes this Generals VnV's are quite contradictory. Everything is great, I think he even has Famously Brave. But then the second one (out of 7) is Dead Drunk. It goes on to say something about his squires having to strap is near lifless body to the horse haha.

[hundurinn]

Lets hope RTW will have few good vice&virtues and a BETTER system. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[SwordsMaster]

What I cant find the reason for happening is:

You GET the inbred vice.Usually you are BORN inbred, how in all the gods can you BECOME inbred during your life??

The same for all the other family related vices.You are either born with it or not, but cant get it afterwards....

I mean that is just absurd.

[TinCow]

Quote[/b] (Ragss @ June 01 2004,04:04)]Yes this Generals VnV's are quite contradictory. Everything is great, I think he even has Famously Brave. But then the second one (out of 7) is Dead Drunk. It goes on to say something about his squires having to strap is near lifless body to the horse haha.
You think that's contradictory? In my current game, I saw two AI Turkish generals. One was a skilled attacker and a weak attacker. The other was an expert attacker and a weak attacker.

Go figure.

[Imperial Buffoon]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ June 01 2004,07:13)]What I cant find the reason for happening is:

You GET the inbred vice.Usually you are BORN inbred, how in all the gods can you BECOME inbred during your life??

The same for all the other family related vices.You are either born with it or not, but cant get it afterwards....

I mean that is just absurd.
I think the idea was to make it more and more obvious as time goes by: ie your men see your odd number of toes, respect you less and you lose a star, etc... a bit like the "Secret pride"->Pride and other vices that get worse as they're discovered.
but I agree with you that it's a bit daft.

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (Imperial Buffoon @ June 01 2004,16:33)]I think the idea was to make it more and more obvious as time goes by: ie your men see your odd number of toes, respect you less and you lose a star, etc... a bit like the "Secret pride"->Pride and other vices that get worse as they're discovered.
but I agree with you that it's a bit daft.
It could've been a "secret odd number of toes" then, or "rumoured to be a bastard"... That would be fun, revealing all the hidden vices of the enemy generals... You drop a spy on your rival's 8* crown prince, and then, ta-daaaa, he's a bastard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Imperial Buffoon]

Quote[/b] (Tricky Lady @ June 01 2004,11:36)]That would be fun, revealing all the hidden vices of the enemy generals... You drop a spy on your rival's 8* crown prince, and then, ta-daaaa, he's a bastard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
And it's not even that far from historical facts, although it also should work the other way, drop a spy into your own king and BANG get a couple of extra bastard heirs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

I like that idea if you are really desperate for heirs and you just drop a spy onto your king to get some bastards unveiled.

this might invoke a happiness drop and also pissing off the faction who the queens is from.

that woudl be awesome

BTW, I've seen Tankerville get Man of honor or something that says he can't be bribed by a king's ransom but also like no principles with his grandmother's new owner and alll that schpeel.

[Imperial Buffoon]

I don't suppose there's a way of actually doing that by modding the game...does anyone know? It would be a lot more elegant than unfreeze

[ChaosLord]

My favorite are the God-Fearing Athiests that pop up when i'm having fun with inquisitors. I totally agree about the inbred vices, they shouldn't suddenly appear, either have them from birth as secret vices or don't have them at all.

[Kristaps]

I've noticed that my general's lately don't ever get the lazy vice and rarely they become hedonists/sybarites nowadays. I move them to a new province every turn... This seems to do the trick. In their travels, they do find their odd toes at times though... It's hard to raise their peity this way though (if a general stays in a province with 70+ zeal for some time, he is likely to develop some peity/zeal enhancing virtue).

By the way, intense travel seems to farm the educated line of virtues, which eventually add to command stars and accumen.

[katank]

really?

is this good for keeping govs straight also?

BTW, do you just move by single province or across the map using ships?

on what scale do you do this? highest ranking 10 or so?

do I have to move em individually or can I stack them and move them together?

could be huge micro nightmare.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (katank @ June 01 2004,18:21)]really?

is this good for keeping govs straight also?

BTW, do you just move by single province or across the map using ships?

on what scale do you do this? highest ranking 10 or so?

do I have to move em individually or can I stack them and move them together?

could be huge micro nightmare.
It seems that if lower rank generals are stacked with a higher rank general topping off the stack, moving the whole stack frequently keeps the lower rank guys from turning lazy as well. So far, I've seen 'educated-line' virtues attributed only to the highest rank in the stack though.

The way I do it is simply rotate the stacks among neighboring provinces. For example, imagine Almos holding Navarre and Aragon - I would rotate the armies between the two European border provinces every turn. In addition I'd have one spare desert army somewhere in North Africa to be used as a rotating reserve for the one garrisoning Cyrenacia. Of course, this applies until Almos have expanded beyond the mentioned provinces. Once the border line has epxanded, I would just rotate similar setup armies clock-wise; using ships if necessary (using the Almo example it would be European type armies and Desert type armies forming two rotating groups).

The traveling approach seems to prevent development of laziness and hedonism vices: much less frequently I see a general starting talking rubbish to non-existent servants as well. Nevertheless, I have not noticed any difference in regards to economic vices such as 'gambler', 'secret dubious accounting', etc. Those still seem to be related to the overall state of the empire.

As for peity boosting amoung generals: I'd just burn stacks of peasants in my border provinves until zeal is up to 80+. The generals of the rotating armies soon turn into believers, zealots and fanatics... That's if you are catholic. As muslim: just use your imams to raise zeal. It seems that the orthodox are disadvantaged in this area though :)

I've noticed an interesting side effect of 'rotating': since I would keep all 'star-holding' generals in the stack with the highest ranked general in an army I would frequently have an auxiliary stack holding archers and the like having no star general's leading them. Frequently, these no-star guys become either brave or pride and later decome educated progressing to highly educated to top their development off with a command star...

[Seven.the.Hun]

the random thing is odd, better to save after each year if u wanna be more 'ideal' i spose to your caue...(to conquer quickly of course), some really crazy vices stab in always

[Nowake]

Just keep your important generals in campaigns. Too many years of peace and they'll become corupted and lazzy; this happens every time.

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ June 02 2004,02:36)]Just keep your important generals in campaigns. Too many years of peace and they'll become corupted and lazzy; this happens every time.
That's the point: rotating the generals location helps them avoid lazy vice even at peace times (like when playing GA games).

[King Edward]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif It is Frustrating in GA mode where you may want a few years of peace to tech up only to find that all your governours are outlaws, gamblers, drunks, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif (wanted to get that new smile in) publicly generous and poor stuards, although it does mean you end up with several Uber potent Assasins