Official Osprey thread

[Revenant69]

Wow, what a great thread !!! I have stumbled here by accident, but now Monastery has become the place where I spend most of my time at the ORG :san_grin: :san_shocked: because history, especially ancient and medieval history, is one of my hobbies.

Believe it or not but I have read ALL 25 pages in this thread. Yeah I'm a masochist :san_grin: I know. But I didn't just read the pages, I have carefully compiled my own OSPREY books wish list so to speak. Unfortunately this list is rather long and by the first estimation the full costs would run up to 4000$ :san_shocked: LOL Yeah, so I'll have to take it easy and collect bit by bit.

Also, someone here mentioned that I can get OSPREY books in pdf format. That would be great for me as I'd be able to judge the worthiness of the title before I buy it, thus saving quite a bit. Could anyone point me to this wonderful source of pdf files?

Many thanks,
Rev

PS BKB - you are my hero !!!

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

PS BKB - you are my hero !!!

Not sure what to say Rev but thanks for such high praise! Glad to see you've taken a shine to these books, they're great little sources of info.

As for books in pdf format, we'll unfortunately I don't think I can help you with that. If you want a sneak peak of the kind of plates you can expect in the book though, I can give you a link to a Polish Total War site which has a huge thread on Osprey where they've attached pictures of loads of books. LMK mate.

[edyzmedieval]

BKB is really a hero for this thread. :book:

BKB,

What books can you recommend on the Roman army?!Especially the legions.

[cunctator]

For the imperial era I can recommend both legionary titles form the warrior series:
Imperial Roman Legionary 161-284 AD
Roman Legionary 58BC-69AD
For my taste the men-at-arms books are much to short for such an extensive topic. Also Roman auxilary cavalryman 14-193 AD will be released this month.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Yes as Cuncator said those two titles in the 'Warrior' series are excellent, plus the plates by Angus McBride are very good indeed. You can't really go too far wrong there.

[Steppe Merc]

For Christmas I got The Normans, Army of the Muslim Conquest and Saladin and the Saracens. They are all excellent, though I have not yet fininshed the Normans (got a whole bunch of other books to read as well).

[snevets]

Anybody have any plates of the Etruscans? Thanks for any help provided.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Only Etruscans I can recall are ones of them fighting the Celts by Angus McBride in either his Concord titles or the 'Warlords' one for Blandford Press, and there are a few. I'll see what I can find.

[Kraxis]

For the imperial era I can recommend both legionary titles form the warrior series:
Imperial Roman Legionary 161-284 AD
Roman Legionary 58BC-69AD
For my taste the men-at-arms books are much to short for such an extensive topic. Also Roman auxilary cavalryman 14-193 AD will be released this month.
Ah yes, it would be interesting to see how the style changed... I mean we all know the nice segmented armour and square tower shields, and then suddenly we have chain or no armour and oval flat shields.

I know that it seems that Septimus Severus was the last to truly use the 'old' lorica segmentata (that we know of of course), but then there is a major gap in my knowledge until about Constantine.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Snevets, here's one mate:

https://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ancientcelts113hs.jpg

Obviously the ones to the right are Etruscans.

I know there's at least two more but I can't find them at the minute.

[snevets]

Thanks Bohemia. Any others you could find would be good.

[gie]

Etruscan
https://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Comerus/img158.jpg

[Steppe Merc]

Angus is deffienetly way to varied in his quality. I have a bunch of great stuff by him, like the Normans, Vikings, Muslim Conquest, Saladin, Islamic Armies and my favorite, Atilla and the Hordes. But then when I look at Byzantine Armies 800 whatever (the middle one, not the last one), and even Sassanian Elite Cav, there totally different. Why does he change his style so much? I get that he gets better from Byzantine Armies 800 whatever, but how did he get worse (IMHO) in Sassanians? The book was good, but the plates were very sad compared to Atilla or Normans or even Saladin.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Its a great shame mate but its quite probably age, I mean he's 75 now, we'ere just gonna have to face facts that he isn't as good as he was. He's using a different technique and if that allows him to go on longer than so be it that's fine with me. I still think he pisses over every other Osprey artist anyway.

[Kraxis]

Its a great shame mate but its quite probably age, I mean he's 75 now, we'ere just gonna have to face facts that he isn't as good as he was. He's using a different technique and if that allows him to go on longer than so be it that's fine with me. I still think he pisses over every other Osprey artist anyway.
I both agree and not... Yes he might be getting too old, but some of his later works are still comparable to his 'golden' years.
But I don't think that in his lesser works he is pissing the competition away. There are several younger artists that are quickly catching up to him. Wayne Renolds when he doesn't get up close to his subjects (it seems every man and his dog has to scream in a cartoony fashion), Mike Chapell, Bryan Deff and the two Hooks can match 'the old man of the pen'. Of course he has in his best works some very special way to make it lively yet still believeable, and that is the difference. Technically his works aren't better but his balance of what he includes is superior.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Reynolds is good yes but will never be of McBride's quality. I don't know the first two but as for the two Hooks (which two? There are 3) they are 'technically' good but will never, ever invoke spirit and the essence of a real piece of history in their paintings the way Angus does.

[Steppe Merc]

I really only have McBride stuff, I only have Sarmatians by Embelton... which is not nearly as good as most of McBride's stuff.

[cegorach]

I have just received the Armies of Ivan the Terrible and managed to read some parts of it I wanted to try first.

Overall - it is worth money I paid, gives some interesting informations and the plates ( McBride ) are excellent ... but in some places is so incredibly, terribly biased and the last part ( Lithuanian army) is almost a pure nonsense.

What is biased ?
Well.. I would say that everything which discribes Ukraine, Lithuanian Grand Duchy or mentiones Poland in any way.
- the author most likely believes that tha whole Cossack thing, their whole purpose was to take Ukraine to Russia, there is almost no mention that it was In Poland-Lithuania and some descriptions of Cossack troops are about those in POLISH army, although it is conveniently omitted or forgotten ( short memory loss ?).
- the timetable, there is no mention about the battles Russia lost and there is some ranting about Smolensk liberated from Lithuanian occupation - before it there was no Russia, no Tzars etc so who was occupied ?
Smolensk was a frontier city at that time and even in early XXth century 10 % of its citizens were Polish,
- it is written that it was unsuccessful siege of Polock in 1617 which made Gustavus Adolphus reform its army or that it was the major reason of them - I guess that previous 20 years of endless defeats in war vs POland-Lithuania didn't count at all,
- Livonian War is only mentioned even if it was one of the most important events of that period, the war vs. Poland which ended this period is only mentioned as unsuccessful siege of Polock ( again Polock rulez !) - nothing about that it was one of at least 10 battles/sieges and the whole rest were Russian defeats - it is like writing about 30-years war without Lutzen or swedish involvement at all,
- the only battle against Poles is conveniently the one which was won - if a band of volunteers counts at all,
- there is no information how the hell these Poles got to Moscow (only liberation was mentioned) - as tourists visiting their relatives ? I guess that the battle at Klushino in 1610 doesn't count at all,
- the largest battle in eastern Europe in XVIth century ( Orsha ) isn't mentioned, there is only a part of the painting celebrating this greatest Lithuanian victory and it is the one where lithuanian Tatar auxilia is running away - true they faked rout lured Russians into a trap, but who cares !
- Smolensk war, the first trial of new russian 'foreign' regiments isn't isn't worth more than 5-7 words, nothing about its outcome,
- no mention about Polish-lithuanian state it is only Lithuania,
- no mention about the units copied from Poland - they were about 20 % of russian cavalry,
- Prince Radziwill, hetman - commander of Lithuanian army in Polish-Lithuanian state appears almost as a Russian !
- The part about the army of Lithuania is full of bullocks - like that its majority were infantrymen, of course any Polish word or even the very word 'polish' in any form doesn't appear at all even though it was in 400-years long union with POLAND where Lithuania was and its official and unofficial language was Polish, its army organisation was like in Poland, as well as titles of commanders, names of weaponry - almost EVERYTHING except some special types of troops ( Tatars and Petyhorcy cavalry)

and many, many others.

I was waiting for this book and now I feel almost betrayed.

I believe it can be read, but only TOGETHER with bot books about Polish armies of that period - otherwise...:wall: :furious3:

Regards Cegorach

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

How'd you get it so early mate? Any good battle/action plates?

[cegorach]

If I am correct there are two battle plates - one with Zaporozhian Cossacks charging from wagonburg and second with Streltsy musketeers shooting somewhere.
Not bad overall.

BTW - the Orsha thing - all right it is not so bad - there is another piece of the painting showing Polish hussars chasing Russian cavalry, but still there is no mention who won the battle - ( Lithuanians and Poles).

I have also noticed that some descriptions of the plates are not without mistakes - especially with Zaporozhian Cossack leader having bulawa mace used as a mark of command in Polish army which is not explained at all - it is just plain, meaningless weapon to the author ! Shame.

And finally if I am correct the whole incredibly important fact of Polish-Lithuanian union which lasted 400 years ( Poland-Lithuania was the most important neighbour of Russia for God's sake !!) is mentioned ONCE - for the rest of the book you have Lithuanians, Lithuanian Grand Duke ( obviously belittling the rank of the KING of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania almost like in XIXth century Russian propaganda pieces) and sometimes some evil Poles probably teleported right from the middle Europe without any apparent reason to invade 'peaceful' Russia... utter, plain rubbish. :wall:
Hopefully I will live long enough to see unbiased Osprey book from a Russian writer concerning Polish-Russian relations. :shame:

In fact many of the informations I was looking for aren't here - but I know they are in many russian sources, even I know more about several parts of the russian army which is supposed to be described in the book.
Don't get me wrong - when I have read the Polish armies books I found them very intersting even if I know really much about the Polish-Lithuanian army of that period and after reading this particular one I feel that my knowledge is not any better, in fact I have learnt more from ONE webside of a russian historian - I can give you the link if you want.

Overall such a BIG title and so much dissappointment...:no: :shame:

Regards Cegorach

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Thanks mate. I got this, Roman Auxiliary Cavalryman, Bronze Age War Chariots and Ancient Greek Fortifications from a hobby shop today, good stuff. I do like the plates in Ivan I must say, very good. Sorry to hear your disappointed with the info though, you specialize in this kind of thing so I wouldn't be sure about the mistakes to be honest.

I got the Osprey catalogue today - there's two more good compilation books coming out in June. One about the Vikings with the elite title, the New Vanguard Longboat title and the Warrior Viking Hersir book. Then there's one called 'Warriors of the Dragon' or something like that with all 5 Chinese Armies men at arms books, dating from 1500BC-1840. Good purchases if you don't already have these books.

[kataphraktoi]

Don't worry ANGUS aint losing his touch.

I think u guys need to compare angus's best art and his not as good art and look at the date of first print!!

The Byzantine books were done earlier than the Osprey books with better art.

Angus's art isn't going down, its going up!

[Steppe Merc]

It was, but not anymore. Sassanian Heavy Horse is far inferior to Vikings, Normans or Atilla and the Nomad Hordes. That said, it is way better than his earliest stuff.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think the Ivan book might be a bit of a return to form - I don't believe he uses the charcoal-type drawing materials in this one so it looks a lot better.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

A small treat for you guys that don't have Concord's Age of the Crusades - many of you won't have seen these pics but its a shame because they are brilliant. Angus in 2004 mind, showing he can still match up to his earlier stuff and then some. I'll post a few more tomorrow. Slightly slanted and not great I know but they were tough to scan:

Lechfeld:

https://img367.imageshack.us/img367/3871/magyar9qd.jpg

Clontarf (brilliant):

https://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2028/clontarf0hl.jpg

Timurids battling an elephant in Asia:

https://img367.imageshack.us/img367/543/timurid6gi.jpg

[Steppe Merc]

In the Ivan book, is there any thing mentioned about the Crimean Khanate? Any pics or just a paragraph about them? I'm thinking about getting it, but if it doesn't mention some of their enemies (especially the coolest, the Crimeans...)

[Kraxis]

Wow... those are great. And I agree, Clontarf (vikings vs ?) is absolutely brilliant, but Lechfeld is to an extent better in that it portrays the men more up close and personal.

But I'm surprised with the number of men at Clontarf that we only see one man down, another on the way (how his oponent gets to the position of striking I can't fathom) and a possible one (the axeman vs spearman).

[cavalry1]

Hello! I'm interested in the Montvert book Sassanian Armies. I've been told that there's a picture of some Hephthalite and Chionite warriors in this book. Does anyone know where I can find this picture, and any other pictures from this book?

[edyzmedieval]

I just got the Osprey catalogue earlier this week.

Hopefully I can order some more, I am very fond of Osprey books....

Wanna order:
-The Normans
-Ancient Greek Fortifications
-Japanese Castles
-Macedonian Elite Warrior

Plus some other books, but I don't have my list near me.
Any thoughts?!

[cegorach]

In the Ivan book, is there any thing mentioned about the Crimean Khanate? Any pics or just a paragraph about them? I'm thinking about getting it, but if it doesn't mention some of their enemies (especially the coolest, the Crimeans...)

There is one guy on the plate, but this one comes from the Russian army, overall if there is hardly anything about the most important neighbour of Russia Poland-Lithuania and these few pieces of information are biased what can you expect. So there is nothing worth reading - I know much more anyway - see Pike and Musket TW sub-forum - soon I will post something more i.e. screens of finished Tatar army.

Regards Cegorach :book:

[cegorach]

[QUOTE=Steppe Merc]In the Ivan book, is there any thing mentioned about the Crimean Khanate?

I have checked my Osprey books and it seems that the best description of Crimean armies is in Polish armies 1569-1696 volume 2 including one plate:

https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/Tartars-WingedUhlanStandard-bearerC.jpg

True, I would like to see a seperate book about Crimean army or at least a compilation with Transylvanian, Wallachian and Moldavian armies - maybe titled Ottoman Vassals and their armies ( :idea2: ...I will propose the title on Osprey webpage, who knows... ) because it would be great to see some plates for it maybe by Vuksic who actually made some great images ( can be seen on his webpage), although someone really good should write it, not like the author of the Ivan book :no:

Regards Cegorach

[edyzmedieval]

So far there's no book regarding the Wallachian or Moldavian armies. :no:

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, a whole bunch of really interesting people haven't been covered, mainly because of their obssesion with WW2...
And I think a book of Ottoman vassals would be awesome! Does the book on the Ottomans talk anything about the Crimeans or the Moldavians etc?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

3 more Age of the Crusades pics for your viewing pleasure:

Siege of Kazan

https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/753/russians9kx.jpg

Siege of Jerusalem (Great)

https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2091/jerusalem7bt.jpg

Battle of Hastings (Really encapsulates 'Dark Age' feel - Angus at his best)

https://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2272/hastings1wj.jpg

[edyzmedieval]

Wooow...Nice plates. ~D

Any thoughts on my list?!

[Steppe Merc]

I ordered Age of Tamerlane used from Amazon... Hope it's as good as the other Ospreys I've been getting lately.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The cover of Macedonian Warrior has been posted:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9509AL.JPG

[cegorach]

Yeah, a whole bunch of really interesting people haven't been covered, mainly because of their obssesion with WW2...
And I think a book of Ottoman vassals would be awesome!


Does the book on the Ottomans talk anything about the Crimeans or the Moldavians etc?

- not really, there are few sentences about the Tatars in both Ottoman books ( the second 1775-1820 is unusually useful when it comes to XVIIth century in other regions e.g. Algieria, Libya , I can recommend it) and almost nothing about the Moldavians/Wallachians - again the second volume of the Polish Armies is the best source about both Tatars and Moldavians/Wallachians and there is something about Hungarians, Cossacks and others, even Scots - everyone was serving in polish forces at that time.

BTW I think I have found one source used by McBride in the Ivan book

https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/cegorach/litwa.jpg

Still I would like to speak to the person which called Lithuanian infantrymen 'Streltsy' and placed them alongside their bitter enemies Russian streltsy ! I think I should write some kind of review for the Ivan book, no mercy ! :skull:

Regards Cegorach

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I think some plates aren't always intended to represent an accurate scene - if you look at a good deal of Angus' pictures in many he puts together 3 or 4 people who probably wouldn't mix in real life into the same scene, probably just to get as much as possible into a picture. Think of it kind of like those old books with 3 different guys on a white background but upgraded and made into a kind of fictional scene, not intended to be accurate but to show you a good variety of peoples.

Ceg did you get my PM mate?

[cegorach]

Yes, I am reading it now... :book: :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

New poll on Osprey site. Main ones of interest are a New Vanguard book about Greek Warships and an Irish Kern 1400-1500 MAA book. I think this is a mistake and they mean a Warrior title, but it sounds excellent nonetheless, and I urge you to all vote for it. Should be an Irish Warrior book though from 1000-1600, featuring both Kerns and Gallowglass and more besides.

Oh and Osprey's site has confirmed that a Hittite Warrior (Warrior) book is coming out in August 2007. I imagine Angus will do that, although I'd like him to do something (IMO) more interesting.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just bought Montvert's 'Justinian's Wars' for a very reasonable price I must say considering how rare it is. That's my collection complete now save for new stuff.

[edyzmedieval]

BKB I think you have the most complete Osprey collection in the world, except for the guy who owns Osprey. :skull: :2thumbsup:

Anyways, anyone know some shops in Geneve where I can buy Osprey books?!

Ed

P.S.:Got my PM BKB?!

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well I dread to think if anyone ever got ALL the books, including all the post 17th century stuff. It'd be enormous! I was talking about Montvert and Concord too, so more of a pre 17th century Illustrated Military books collection.:laugh4:

Yes I did mate, replied.

[edyzmedieval]

Replied to the PM mate.

What good books do you recommend on the Normans?!
I mean, is the Normans(the big book) any good?!(scheduled for April, I think)

I wanna buy it, but I need some recommendations first. :2thumbsup:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well its worth it purely for having Angus McBride illustrated 'The Normans' (Elite) in it. Since you also get Norman Knight and both Norman fortifications books in it I'd say its definitely a good purchase.

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks mate. I also replied to your PM, check it out.... :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Adam Hook's illustrating a Pharsalus campaign book coming out in September:

Amazon Link Pharsalus (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846030021/qid=1140174123/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-5505770-6819025)

This should be intriguing, a Fortress title about Indian Castles from 1206-1526 coming out in September:

Indian Castles Amazon link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/184603065X/qid=1140174363/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-5505770-6819025)

Another good Fortress title (we knew about this one a while back, seems to have had a name change), The Forts of Celtic Britain coming in again in September:

Celtic Forts Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030641/qid=1140174549/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-6119868-5452905?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

Yet another Fortress book about the Spanish Main from 1493-1800, coming out in August:

Spanish Main Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030056/qid=1140174633/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_10/102-6119868-5452905?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

An Elite title about the Scottish Jacobite Army in September:

Jacobites Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030730/qid=1140174911/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-6119868-5452905?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

ANOTHER Fortress title, one about the Fortifications of Gibraltar from 1068-1946 in October:

Gibraltar Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030161/qid=1140175137/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-6119868-5452905?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

That would appear to be it for the rest of the year, although hopefully there will be more, including an Angus McBride illustrated book! This is just from Amazon mind, so there's a good chance there could be more than this, indeed I hope there is anyway.

[edyzmedieval]

Nothing of interest for me, except maybe the Celtic Forts. Damn.... :embarassed:

Can't wait to order my new set of books. :2thumbsup:

-Japanese Castles 1540-1630
-Ninja
-Ancient Greek Fortifications
-Normans(big 200p book)
-Macedonian Elite Warrior
-Sassanid Elite Cavalry

Any thoughts? ~:)

[cegorach]

I have Ninja. I would say it is a good choice. :book:



@Only castles BKB ???

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

You referring to the Fortress books mate? Yeah it looks as though this year is dominated by them.

[cegorach]

Have you found anything else - I mean after the time described in the catalogue i.e after July 2006 - any new books from Men-at-Arms, Campaign, Warrior etc.
I know about Naseby - and I will order it for sure, but maybe there will be something else you know, noticed on Amazon or elsewhere ??? :inquisitive:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Mate I tried all the categories and this is all the relevant stuff I found on Amazon for what appears to be the rest of the year. I know I wish there was more too, maybe at least another McBride title, but it looks like the good start to 2006 was just that, the latter half is basically Fortress titles. Amazon doesn't always list everything though, maybe there might be 1 or 2 surprises when Osprey announced their official schedule.

[cegorach]

I hope so.

Btw have you seen the latest screenshots for PMTW - check the new wagons... :2thumbsup:

[cegorach]

I have found something - I don't remember it from the catalogue

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1841769568/qid=1140262837/sr=1-476/ref=sr_1_2_476/026-4410046-9210834

not my most favourite period, but better than nothing :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Obviously there are other books but i just listed the ones from ancient times to the 17th century. There loads of other crap coming out.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I read somewhere BTW that those books are only from July-September, so hopefully we can expect more in the remaining 3 months of the year!

Russians Fortresses has a great plate of the Siege of Kazan in it BTW. I must say I really rate Peter Dennis' work in the Fortress series, he always throws in at least one action-orientated plate.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Found out about another new book coming out in July - unfortunately its another Fortress title, though not a bad one though, plus Adam Hook's doing the illustrations - Fortifications of the Incas: 1200-1531:

Fortifications of the Incas Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1841769398/qid%3D1140564400/202-5505770-6819025)

I think there's also an Ancient Siege Warfare book coming out in September (presumably a compilation of the Elite titles Ancient Siege Warfare and Roman Siege Warfare, and probably the New Vanguard Green and Roman Siege Artillery and Machinery titles):

Besieged Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846030196/qid=1140564519/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-5505770-6819025)

Also this mysterious book has shown up, simply entitled 'Persia':

Persia Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846031087/qid=1140564627/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/202-5505770-6819025)

I know from somewhere else its gonna be fairly expensive so we can probably expect it to be yet another compilation. Presumably the Persian Army Elite title, plus the Rome's Enemies Parthians and Sassanids MAA book and probably the Sassanian Elite Cavalryman Elite book too will be in it.

Also links for the Chinese and Viking compilation books I told you about:

Vikings Amazon link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846030870/qid=1140564792/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_0_6/202-5505770-6819025)

Chinese Armies Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1846030986/qid=1140564872/sr=1-36/ref=sr_1_0_36/202-5505770-6819025)

Oh and Stephen Turnbull appears to have an all new book about the Samurai coming out, but I don't think it will have any illustrations. Its called The Samurai and the Sacred : The Path of the Warrior, and its out in October:

Samurai Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030218/qid=1140565011/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-6906436-7536120?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

[Steppe Merc]

Damn. I wish they would come out with a GOOD Acheameid Persian book... or at least just reprint that brilliant Montvert one.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just got word from Osprey of a cracking new Angus McBride illustrated title coming out in early 2007:

Men-at-Arms 436: The Scandinavian Baltic Crusades 11th-15th Centuries

Should be well worth looking forward to! Hopefully it will include some action orientated plates involving Teutonic Knights, Poles, Swedes, Novgorod, Lithuanians, and various native Pagan tribes from the region.

[cegorach]

Very good news BKB ! :balloon2:

[edyzmedieval]

Whopeee.....

Nice book. ~:)

[cegorach]

Check THIS SITE FOR HUGE AMOUNT OF PICTURES from various times, books and about numerous armies all around the world - Osprey, Concord and others...

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/?ArtId=361


from the top you have:

Wojownicy epoki brązu - BRONZE AGE WARRIORS
Grecy i wojownicy hellenistyczny - GREEKS AND HELLENIC AGE
Rzymianie i ludy italskie - ROMANS AND VARIOUS ITALIC NATIONS
Bliski Wschód i Afryka Północna - MIDDLE EAST AND NORTHERN AFRICA
Barbarzyńska Europa - BARBARIAN EUROPE
Wczesne średniowiecze - EARLY MEDIEVAL
XI-XIII wiek
XIV-XV wiek
Muzułmanie - MUSLIMS
Wojownicy innych kontynentów - WARRIORS FROM OTHER CONTINENTS
Wiek lancknechtów i konkwistadorów - renesans - LANDSKNECHTS AND CONQUISTADORS
Czas płaszcza i szpady - XVII i pierwsze lata XVIII wieku
Wiek wielkich rewolucji - XVIII wiek do Napoleona - REVOLUTIONS FROM XVIII TO NAPOLEON

I didn't translate the most obvious...

Some are covers in Polish Historical battles series - some really good like this

Orsha 1514

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/Orsza%201514.jpg

or this - Smolensk 1632-34

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/Smolensk%201632-34%20-01.jpg

or Oliva 1627

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/Oliwa%201627%20-01.jpg

or Naseby 1645

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/gallery/Naseby%201645%20-01.jpg



Regards Cegorach :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Concord Publications have confirmed the release of a new book, 'Medieval Knights'. Unfortunately the artwork is not by Angus, but the guy who did the El Cid book, Justo Jimeno. His work is very stylized, actiony and has a certain fantasy feel about it (those Scots look like they've come straight out of Braveheart!), and its definitely to an acquired taste. I quite like it I must say!

http://www.concord-publications.com/6013/6013-cover.jpg

http://www.concord-publications.com/6013/6013-04.jpg

http://www.concord-publications.com/6013/6013-07.jpg

http://www.concord-publications.com/6013/6013-09.jpg

http://www.concord-publications.com/6013/6013-12.jpg

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

More Osprey books coming in November/December:

Cathar Castles : Fortresses of the Albigensian Crusade 1209-1244 (Fortress) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030668/qid=1142256075/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8804701-6856133?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

Rome's Saxon Shore : Coastal Defences of Roman Britain AD 250-500 (Fortress) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030943/qid=1142256075/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/102-8804701-6856133?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)


The Hun: Scourge of God AD375-565 (Warrior) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030250/qid=1142255962/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-8804701-6856133?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)


Wars of the Barbary Pirates : To the shores of Tripoli: the birth of the US Navy and Marines (Essential Histories) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030307/qid=1142256026/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8804701-6856133?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

Christa Hook's doing the Hun, and with Peter Dennis doing the Cathar one you can probably be sure of a good Fall of Montsegur plate.

That rounds out the year. Not a bad one but really dominated by Fortress titles in the areas that interest us. Hopefully there will be more MAA, Warrior, Elite and Campaign titles in the Ancient/Medieval eras next year.

[Kraxis]

The Hun for me... Not only is it intreguing, but with Christa Hook on the job it will be wellmade plates.

If you look at the frontpage of it, doen't it look a good deal like an Angus job?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

You are indeed right Kraxis - that pic is from 'Atillia and the Nomad Hordes', an Elite title which Angus illustrated. However, as with all newly announced titles, it is a mock-up cover featuring an old plate. The final cover, which Osprey will probably reveal about two months before its release, will obviously be new and by Christa Hook.

[De ponce]

2 plates that haven't been posted from the Montvert "Seleucid army".

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6118/za3dm.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=za3dm.jpg)

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6743/po4qi.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=po4qi.jpg)

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Did you manage to get the book in the end mate?

[De ponce]

From some danish bookstore,yes-for 15 $.(it took me about 20 days of intensive internet search).
Although,these aren't my scans.

[Kraxis]

Quite Angus, but in particular the second has people being the usual broad squat types he likes to make.

Is that another series or something? Montvert? Tell me a bit more.
And which Danish bookstore? I might be able to get to it. I do like the Seleucids, and this would be a great score.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Kraxis I believe this is all they ever published. I have them all now but it sure was difficult.

Reivers (Angus)
Army of Tang China (Angus)
Sassanian Armies: 3rd to 7th century (Angus)
Ancient Warrior (More of a magazine, probably intended to run but only had one issue I believe)
Armies of Bactria (2 volumes - one text, one plates/images)
Warriors of Eurasia
The Achaemenid Persian Army
Justinian's Wars
Seleucid and Ptolemaic Reformed Armies Volume 1: The Seleucid Army (Angus)
Seleucid and Ptolemaic Reformed Armies Volume 2: The Ptolemaic Army (Angus)

The last 4 are very rare, expect to pay anywhere from £25-50 each, De Ponce scoured far and wide and got it at a great price, but that was probably a one off. As you can see, they cover some areas that Osprey have ignored or not looked at in much detail. They are bigger than Osprey titles and generally more detailed, but Reivers and Warriors of Eurasia follow a different format from the rest, they are probably only worth buying for the pictures.

[De ponce]

BKB I would like to hear your opinion about Justinian's Wars(what kind of plates can I expect if I manage to order the book)?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The plates while quite good are of course not Angus. It covers not just the Byzantines but also the Gothic and Frankish armies, and I think Vandals too, so its pretty in depth. I paid £27. I think if I'd have paid anything more I would have been slightly aggrieved, but given its scarcity and the fact that its a good book on the subject its probably worth about that.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Osprey have put up the cover of the 'Tudor Knight' title and it looks like Turner is on top form:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9703AL.JPG

The proper cover of Flodden is up also:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9592AL.JPG

[Orda Khan]

The Hun for me... Not only is it intreguing, but with Christa Hook on the job it will be wellmade plates.
Yes that will be one to look out for, not that there will be much more to hope for in content text wise, just about all Hun source information has been covered already. It will however be nice to see another take on Huns plate wise, I have never been Angus McBride's biggest fan, his perception on bow scale is always way too small.

Osprey have put up the cover of the 'Tudor Knight' title and it looks like Turner is on top form:
I was going to praise Graham Turner then I saw this. He gets my vote, his paintings have always impressed.
There is always a good selection of Osprey books at Tewkesbury Mediaeval Festival, well worth visiting

.......Orda

[edyzmedieval]

There is always a good selection of Osprey books at Tewkesbury Mediaeval Festival, well worth visiting

.......Orda

What? ~D

Where is that?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well there is a Tewkesbury in Gloucester England (Nice place) and also there is one in the states in Massachusetts. If Orda is from England it will probably be the Gloucester one

[edyzmedieval]

Medieval Festival in Massachusetts? Be serious. :laugh4:

How is a medieval festival?Anyone have pics?

[Orda Khan]

I am across the border BKB, a Welsh barbarian! But you are right it is in Gloucestershire. A 2 day free admission festival, people in Mediaeval costume, stalls full of interesting stuff, the books ofc, plus weapons and all sorts. A pig roast, beer tent, entertainment and the battle of Tewkesbury re-enacted on both days. This year it is being held on July 8th and 9th. It makes for a great family day out, or weekend whatever and like I said, it is free.....though a couple of peasants will approach you throughout the day begging for a donation. It really is worth a visit

........Orda

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well I finally got myself a Digital Camera the other week so here's a pic of my Osprey collection, as of the February releases Otterburn and Scottish Castles. You'll note the Montvert books in the bottom left and various assorted titles in the bottom right. The Concord books are not here as I've ran out of space! Also, the slanted nature of the bottom shelf in particular is a problem I tried hard to rectify but never could. Anyway, here it is:

My collection (https://img352.imageshack.us/img352/962/osprey8vn.jpg)

I've linked to it as it is a little big.

[edyzmedieval]

:jawdrop:

Nuff said..... :inquisitive:

[The Wizard]

Heh... that's from the library, right? Yeah, gotta be... hehe...

*goes to cry in a dark corner*

[edyzmedieval]

BKB my Honorable Civitate,

What do you think of Napoleon's Mameluks?!

[Steppe Merc]

Damn, a Hun book? I wish it wasn't a Warrior... I always prefer MAA or Elite paintings (then again, the last I got of Angus was wierd... but at least the Ivan one looks like he's returning to more normal painting).
But can't we get one a nomad one of not the Huns? I mean, there are two books (at least) about nomads that mention them and have plates of them, especially Atilla and the Nomad Hordes. Can we get an Avar, Bulgar and Magyar book? Or one that focuses on the nomadic Turkic tribes (well, at least the really important ones)?

And Orda's right, Angus's bows often seem too small...

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just got Concord's Medieval Knights and I must say I'm very impressed with the artwork. The author is Spanish (I believe) so the text is a bit off at times but his plates are top notch.

[cutepuppy]

The last 10days I increased my osprey collection with no less than 400%!!
Woohoo!

I now have 5 books :embarassed:

I already had:

elite: the crusades

I bought: campaign: tannenberg, acre, kalka river and lake peipius.

I really like the campaign series: much information on generals, troops, tactics and general military history. They are a real recommendation.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The last 10days I increased my osprey collection with no less than 400%!!
Woohoo!

I now have 5 books :embarassed:

I already had:

elite: the crusades

I bought: campaign: tannenberg, acre, kalka river and lake peipius.

I really like the campaign series: much information on generals, troops, tactics and general military history. They are a real recommendation.


Those campaign books you bought are great, especially Lake Peipus. I like the plates and the info from that book. Tannenberg is also a great book with hooks artwork great as well. Acre is a another good osprey book and that siege is one of favourite throughout history and throughout Outremer's faults their defence of the their last significant stronghold was tremedously brave especially from the Templars last stand in their citadel. Kalka rivers artwork lets it down slightly but the quality of the writing is fine.

[cutepuppy]

Kalka rivers artwork lets it down slightly but the quality of the writing is fine.

completely agree with that, but the plates are only of secondary importance for me, I am more interested in the information provided.

[King Ragnar]

I currently Have:
Berlin 1945: End of a Thousand Year Reich
The Military Sniper since 1914
and just bought:
Waffen SS soldier
British Army NW Europe, 1941-1945

These books rule, and i highly reccomend you buy them from www.play.com as the are cheaper than in shops or at the official webiste, just search for the author you want at play and they should have the majority of the books.

[edyzmedieval]

Huh?You can buy Ospreys from play.com?

[Avicenna]

Tempted to get an osprey book at the bookstore today, but the £9.50 cost for such a thin book made me decide against it. There are far longer books on military history for the same or lower prices. Ended up getting a book on Chemical and Biological warfare of the ancients. Great read!

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Here's the front cover of Polish Winged Hussar:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S650XAL.JPG

Artist doesn't look too bad to be honest.

[cegorach]

true :2thumbsup:

[The Wizard]

Definitely a candidate for my money, but it already shares that place with so many others. :\

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, I may get that... if only to satisfy my need for at least book about the subject to satisfy my Polish heritage. That and I love horsies... :charge:

[De ponce]

BKB please I need your input on these images,they look to me like they were made by Angus in the 1970s.
What do you think?

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1480/zp13mv.th.jpg (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp13mv.jpg)

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4499/zp21fd.th.jpg (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp21fd.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4967/zp38gh.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp38gh.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2932/zp48cb.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp48cb.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7593/zp53ky.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp53ky.jpg)

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8417/zp69oo.th.jpg (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp69oo.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8485/zp74um.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp74um.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6314/zp86hq.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp86hq.jpg)

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3108/zp91mi.th.jpg (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp91mi.jpg)

https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5808/zp103hd.th.jpg (https://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp103hd.jpg)

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2617/zp117sz.th.jpg (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zp117sz.jpg)

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I would say they all are. Never seen them before, some great ones there. Where did you find them?

[De ponce]

Found them here (http://www.veltd.net/miniatur.htm),there are few more,concernig 19th century and WW2.

[edyzmedieval]

I finally ordered 5 books, after I "assasinated" my father to give me his credit card. He gave up, and I ordered 5 Ospreys. ~D

[cutepuppy]

little question to all the specialists here: which 5 books of the MAA series, dealing with the middle ages do you consider the best? I am interested in names of units, generals, tactics,..., not so much on beautiful drawn plates.

[ShadesWolf]

little question to all the specialists here: which 5 books of the MAA series, dealing with the middle ages do you consider the best? I am interested in names of units, generals, tactics,..., not so much on beautiful drawn plates.


What period are you interested in ?

I have 13 books from the period and they cover the reconquista, Venetian Empire, Medieval Italy, Germany, Swiss, Burgundy, Byzantine, Medieval European Armies and of course The hundred years war. But with so many other to choose it really does depend on what you interests are ?

[ShadesWolf]

If you are not interested in any period I would suggest general ones.



About this book
Almost continual warfare raged in Europe during the period 1300-1500. These wars were the furnaces in which many of the modern European nations were forged. Parallel with this emergence of the nations came the development of national armies to protect the newly-won borders and independence, yet throughout this period the old feudal method of raising an army persisted. This fascinating study by Terence Wise explores the organisation, weapons and equipment of the armies who fought across medieval Europe, from the Hundred Years War to the fight against the Moors in Spain and the French invasion of Italy

Contents

- Introduction
- Raising a Feudal Army
- The Mercenaries
- The First National Armies
- Organisation
- The Plates



http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/Q2457AL.JPG

[cutepuppy]

What period are you interested in ?

I have 13 books from the period and they cover the reconquista, Venetian Empire, Medieval Italy, Germany, Swiss, Burgundy, Byzantine, Medieval European Armies and of course The hundred years war. But with so many other to choose it really does depend on what you interests are ?

I think that I know the basic principles of organising and equipping a feudal army (bought a book of j.f. verbruggen about medieval warfare). I really want to know the specific differences between the european-mediterrannean countries. But since I don't have the finances to buy all the elite, warrior, man at arms or campaign books about the middle ages, I just want a good and enjoyable start. I already bought 1 elite (the crusades) and several campaigns (kalka, lake peipius, acre, nicopolis, tannenberg).

[ShadesWolf]

OK I would suggest that you went for the following:

German Medieval Armies 1300-1500
The Swiss at war 1300-1500
Armies of Medieval Burgundy 1364-1477

These three will give you quite a large coverage of central medieval warefare.

To these you could look east, or towards Spain and the reconquista, Hundred years or towards Italy.

Personally my interest cover the hundred years war so the largest part of my Osprey collection are aimed at that period

[edyzmedieval]

These might be from my next pack of Ospreys to order...Thanks SHades. :book:

[cutepuppy]

OK I would suggest that you went for the following:

German Medieval Armies 1300-1500
The Swiss at war 1300-1500
Armies of Medieval Burgundy 1364-1477

These three will give you quite a large coverage of central medieval warefare.

To these you could look east, or towards Spain and the reconquista, Hundred years or towards Italy.

Personally my interest cover the hundred years war so the largest part of my Osprey collection are aimed at that period


I think I will buy some books covering the 'outskirts' of europe. So probably the reconquista, hungary and scandinavia. Are they worth it?

[King Ragnar]

These might be from my next pack of Ospreys to order...Thanks SHades. :book:

You Order them from play.com mate? :2thumbsup:

[edyzmedieval]

Nah. I order them from the official website. Ordered before, no fuss. :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

This thread really could do with a bump. Here's the sample page for July's Polish Winged Hussar:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlespreads/S650XSPR2S.JPG

And also for Inca Fortifications:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlespreads/S9398SPR2S.JPG

[cegorach]

[QUOTE=The Blind King of Bohemia]This thread really could do with a bump. Here's the sample page for July's Polish Winged Hussar:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlespreads/S650XSPR2S.JPG

Nice one, I see parade uniforms and even Ottoman Delil here - seems to be worth the money I payed already.:2thumbsup:

[edyzmedieval]

Thanks BKB for the Inca Fortifications. :book:

Unfortunately, I'm having shipping problems with Osprey. :inquisitive:

[Steppe Merc]

Wow, those Polish Hussars are nice! Even though I do prefer at least some sort of background...

[cegorach]

Brzezinski is a good writer, I have all his Osprey books except Sarmatians which is out of my 'range' ( XVI-XVIIth century).

I only feat that he might go too far and start questioning things which are not completely proven i.e. Husaria charges against pikemen which were very successful ( also when charging head on - I have found 5 of those myself and I am not professional) but aren't completely researched yet.

Ospreys are read by many people and any slightest mistakes will not go unnoticed. I will get Brzezinski's e-mail if possible if I find any !:inquisitive:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Couple of new titles for February next year.

The first you know about, The Scandinavian-Baltic Crusades:

Scandinavian-Baltic Crusades Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841769886/qid=1149689838/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3686823-8862236?s=books&v=glance&n=283155")

And one I didn't know about which should be interesting, Crusader Castles in Cyprus, Greece and the Aegean 1191-1571 (Fortress). Looks like its illustrated by Adam Hook:

New Crusader Castles Amazon Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841769762/qid=1149689884/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3686823-8862236?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

[edyzmedieval]

The Crusader Castles looks interesting.... :book:

[Mithradates]

Are there any good byzantine ospreys?

[edyzmedieval]

Yeap, about 5-6. :book:

Byzantine Armies 886-1118
Byzantine Armies 1118-1461
Walls of Constantinople
Constantinople 1453
...and others. :balloon2:

[Steppe Merc]

Brzezinski is a good writer, I have all his Osprey books except Sarmatians which is out of my 'range' ( XVI-XVIIth century).
Ah, he did Sarmatians? I really like that one, as it is very well researched and backed up compared to many Ospreys.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just a couple more rather bland books to tell you about for early 2007:

Ancient Israel at War 853-586BC (Essential Histories) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030366/qid=1149929906/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-3686823-8862236?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

The Great Wall of China 221 BC-1644 AD (Fortress) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1846030048/qid=1149929967/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/103-3686823-8862236?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

[The Wizard]

Ancient Israel at War, Polish Hussar, Scandinavian Baltic Crusades... another three titles for my wishlist. :2thumbsup:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Another title for March of 2007 is 'Ancient Greek Warship : 500-322 BC (New Vanguard)'. There's also a General Military title coming out called 'Scourge of the Seas' which I'm thinking might be a compilation of the various Pirate books and the Pirate Ship title.

[IrishArmenian]

Is there a complete list of these books?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

You can go to www.ospreypublishing.com mate to see all the books published.

I got Polish Winged Hussar today and I must say from a plate-perspective I'm disappointed - no battle scenes!

[cegorach]

Hmmm.... I will see when I get it...:inquisitive:

[edyzmedieval]

I have problems with the Osprey devlivery. I ordered 5 Opsreys, paid for them, and I still haven't received them.

Ordered on the 3rd of May. :shame:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

That is a long time - sounds like you should probably ask for a refund.

[edyzmedieval]

I'll phone them for sure on Monday. I don't want a refund as long as I get my books. :book:

[Yggdrasill]

To Cegorach - Have you received the Polish Winged Hussar book yet? Is it any good?

I am curious to know what it says about the origin of the name hussar (does it comes from gussar, which I have difficulty believing, or from the Hungarian husz).

To BKB -

Can you advise perhaps about my next Osprey purchase. I Would like to find out more about the English demi-lancers and I am wondering what is a good Osprey book for that.

I am thinking that maybe the Irish wars or the Armada campaign (Elite series, not the Campaign book)

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

To BKB -

Can you advise perhaps about my next Osprey purchase. I Would like to find out more about the English demi-lancers and I am wondering what is a good Osprey book for that.

I am thinking that maybe the Irish wars or the Armada campaign (Elite series, not the Campaign book)


Try the armies of Henry the VIII, it mentions the demi lancer in that.

[Yggdrasill]

Try the armies of Henry the VIII, it mentions the demi lancer in that.


I have that one, and it only mentioned demi-lancers in a passing remark. I'd like something a bit more extensive.

Demi-lancers were used extensively in Ireland, so I think the Irish wars book might have something

[The Wizard]

Now, I recently got a new Osprey purchase (Landsknecht Soldier), and I'm looking for a new one. This time I'd like to know more about the armies of the Ancient Near East. Any suggestions? I've heard that the Assyrian and Egyptian ones are definite recommendations.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Well two good choices on the Osprey poll this month: A Mamluk Warrior title and a Byzantine Cataphract Warrior title, which I voted on. Doesn't mean it'll get made but at least they're considering it.

[cegorach]

To Cegorach - Have you received the Polish Winged Hussar book yet? Is it any good?

I am curious to know what it says about the origin of the name hussar (does it comes from gussar, which I have difficulty believing, or from the Hungarian husz).


Nope, I don't have it yet. It will take a while I am sure, because only when my 18 volume order will be ready I will get the Hussar. I have seen the plates which are a disappointment in my opinion ( nothing from the last 100 years of the Husaria history).


To BKB -

Can you advise perhaps about my next Osprey purchase. I Would like to find out more about the English demi-lancers and I am wondering what is a good Osprey book for that.

I am thinking that maybe the Irish wars or the Armada campaign (Elite series, not the Campaign book)


Or perhaps the Tudor Knight ? I am waiting for the elite Armada so I can't say anything about it ( still one plate does include te Demi Lancer), but I have the Irish wars and there is nothing useful.

I know it was to BKB, but I had something to say anyway. Pardon my intrusion.:juggle2:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Yeah I was thinking Tudor Knight also, might have a look in it if I get a minute.

[Conqueror]

Now, I recently got a new Osprey purchase (Landsknecht Soldier), and I'm looking for a new one. This time I'd like to know more about the armies of the Ancient Near East. Any suggestions? I've heard that the Assyrian and Egyptian ones are definite recommendations.

I have "The Ancient Assyrians" and found it a nice read. Plates by McBride.

[Yggdrasill]

Nope, I don't have it yet. It will take a while I am sure, because only when my 18 volume order will be ready I will get the Hussar. I have seen the plates which are a disappointment in my opinion ( nothing from the last 100 years of the Husaria history).


Disappointment in what way - quality or simply the choice of the plates (as you stated no plates from the last 100 years, which I really don't care much about anyway)? My interest is primarily the earlier period, up to the Deluge. If the book and the plates cover that period well, I'll be happy

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

More Osprey books for next April:

Condottiere 1300-1500: Infamous Medieval Mercenaries (Warrior)
Medieval Russian Fortresses Ad 862-1480 (Fortress)
Granicus 334bc: Alexander's First Persian Victory (Campaign)

Surely the last book makes no sense, what with the Alexander Campaign book covering all his battles?

[ShadesWolf]

More Osprey books for next April:

Condottiere 1300-1500: Infamous Medieval Mercenaries (Warrior)


Thats another book for me, more hundred years war stuff to add to the collect.

[Kraxis]

More Osprey books for next April:

Condottiere 1300-1500: Infamous Medieval Mercenaries (Warrior)
Medieval Russian Fortresses Ad 862-1480 (Fortress)
Granicus 334bc: Alexander's First Persian Victory (Campaign)

Surely the last book makes no sense, what with the Alexander Campaign book covering all his battles?
To an extent I will agree with you, it is rater unusual for Osprey to get this deep into something. But then again Granicus is one of the more controversial battles. Seemingly a good deal more confused than either Issus, Gaugamela or Hydaspes.
So I expect a lot of deeply detailed plates on maneuvers ect. Something that lacks in the Alexander Campaign.

If it goes to explain anything other than the smaller campaigns in Thrace and the likes (which I hope will get more attention as well), then it is definately not worth it. Two books doing the same stuff.

But remember, there are three books more or less that covers the same battles with Hannibal.

I must say that I was somewhat disappointed with The Myceneans. Great plates, but they lacked something, I guess the usual battleplate was what I missed. But also the info was vague at best. It felt a bit hollow, but then again what could I expect? It is after all a relatively unknown period. In any case, if you have a specific interest in the Myceneans, it isn't for you. Only if you think it mgiht be cool to know a little more about something you haven't considered before.
The Bronce Age Warchariots however is great... Lovely plates and plenty of info (better spread out than The Myceneans), so you never really feel 'lonely'.

[The Wizard]

I have "The Ancient Assyrians" and found it a nice read. Plates by McBride.

Can you tell me more about what it touches on?

Also, do any of the others here have any more suggestions for Osprey books on the Ancient Near East?

[Kraxis]

Can you tell me more about what it touches on?

Also, do any of the others here have any more suggestions for Osprey books on the Ancient Near East?
I have also gotten the Assyrians.
It coveres the entire Assyrian accendancy and fall, from the first notice of the state until the last siege. Naturally it is the later periods that gain the lionshare of attention.

It is fairly wellstructured between tactics, equipment, organization and politics. Well worth the time for me, but then agian I knew not very much about the Assyrians prior to this (just that they were uncommonly brutal and the ones repelled at Jerusalem, both of which were debunked).

There is also a book on even more ancient people. I can't remember what it is called (I just burrowed it from a library), but it is abuot Isralites, Kurds, ancient Arabs, Egyptians, Nubians, Sea People and Hittites. A great little compilation, with a obvious focus on Egypt of course. But the info on the Sea People and their equipment is very much interesting (we have all seen the Egyptian carvings of them, it is very much a different experience to see them 'live')

[Conqueror]

Kraxis has it summed up well. Getting a good "big picture" on the Assyrians was what I wanted and I think this one delivers it.

[cegorach]

Disappointment in what way - quality or simply the choice of the plates (as you stated no plates from the last 100 years, which I really don't care much about anyway)? My interest is primarily the earlier period, up to the Deluge. If the book and the plates cover that period well, I'll be happy



Both in a way. I think the lat 75 years of Husaria could get at least one plate.

It is a pity that these new Warrior books have only 8 plates which limits the choice much.

Another thing is lack of action pictures - only one - comparing to other warrior books I have seen or have. I hope the text is better, the extracted page worries my really much, and not only me - my friend who is a historian and actually writes his fourth book about Polish army from this period (one was exclusively about Husaria) right now asked me recently about it - he is waiting for his Osprey book as well.:book:

And the plates - see for yourself -

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/board/viewtopic.php?t=5249&start=825

In the middle of the page.:book:

[Yggdrasill]

Another thing is lack of action pictures - only one - comparing to other warrior books I have seen or have. I hope the text is better, the extracted page worries my really much, and not only me - my friend who is a historian and actually writes his fourth book about Polish army from this period (one was exclusively about Husaria) right now asked me recently about it - he is waiting for his Osprey book as well.:book:

And the plates - see for yourself -

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/board/viewtopic.php?t=5249&start=825

In the middle of the page.:book:


Any of those books in English perhaps? :book:

By the way, I like the plates, all except the first one

I am not sure those are all though, look mre closely at this sample page the top spread on the left, I think there is more...

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=S650X~view=spread

Where did you get these plates?

[beauchamp]

Does anyone have "the moors" or "the saracen faris"? Those are the ones that I really want...

[Yggdrasill]

I have both. Saracen faris is great, a lot of info is cramed in one little book, and the plates are OK too, especially the ones detailing armour.

The Moors is OK, nothig special. The problem is that it cover too much ground, some 700 years, so you won+t find a lot of info.

[edyzmedieval]

I would love to see the Byzantine Cataphract being made. :book:

[cegorach]

Any of those books in English perhaps? :book:



I have seen a translation of an extract somewhere in the web, but it was not officially accepted.

BTW I have just received e-mail from this guy. He said he read Brzezinski's book and he is shocked... It really isn't good, I asked him for examples what is so bad about that.:sweatdrop:

It would be a shame if such important military unit is described in a wrong way...:wall:



Where did you get these plates?

Ukrainian and Russian TW forum.:book:

[Yggdrasill]

BTW I have just received e-mail from this guy. He said he read Brzezinski's book and he is shocked... It really isn't good, I asked him for examples what is so bad about that.

It would be a shame if such important military unit is described in a wrong way...

Well if the problem is the issue of charging pike infantry, then I am not all that against an objective book that debunks some myths. With all due respect to the Husaria, who were probably one of the best cavalry of all times (not to menion the best looking), they weren't all-powerful and charging pikes simply doesn't seem possible unless you have the X factor (pikemen with very short pikes, low quality pkemen, pikemen on the move, pikemen that have sustained losses etc.).

What about the plates, I think there shall be more, see the link I posted, are those on the forum from a book that somebody already has or what?

[cegorach]

Everything seems to be a problem...

the guy I mentioned wrote:

'Irresponsible selection of sources, negative examples only - in addition used intentionally in suprising, unprofessional way. Horrible approach towards battle descriptions'

I asked him for more detailed review.

I really am suprised, I really liked the wide range of sources the author was usually using - if now he changes the policy I am curious why. :inquisitive:



The pikemen thing isn't a myth, although it required a lot of effort, training etc to achieve it, but it is not a place to discuss it anyway.

Well... at least nothing can be worse than the Armies of Ivan the Terrible, the only good thing about it is that it was illustrated by McBride - Winged Hussar CANNOT be worse, can it ?:juggle2: :inquisitive:

[Yggdrasill]

That sounds strange considering the author - he's not some nobody, but an already established Osprey writer who specializes in the period. On top of that he's a Pole, can't get better than this.

I still have faith that everything will turn out OK, Warrior books are generally good, much better than the Men-at-arms series.

[Kraxis]

I have to comment on Macedonian Warrior (Warrior 103)...

Oh what a lovely little piece of marvel.
The author uses a very light tone, yet he is firm. He also keeps it interesting all along, no dabbling in rather useless details (as some Osprey authors tend to do). It never gets tedious to read, as he keeps the flow going, without becoming too light and superficial. But most importantly he argues well for he points but in such a way that you feel you are allowed to disagree. Often authors tend to make it so that their POW is 'the one true path', and are so heavyhanded that you get annoyed with their arrogance. Not this one. He is firm in his beliefs and, as mentioned, he argues extremely well, but he doesn't try to pull his beliefs down over your face, you make your own conclusions.

I don't agree with him on several points, but unlike others where that just gets me riled up, this time I felt like smiling for while I disagreed I could see the validity in his points.

Also, he catered to my most precious beliefs of the Macedonian phalangites. That the machaira is indeed a kopis or a version of it (and thus not a dagger), and that the hypaspists were indeed armed with a shorter spear and a larger shield (makes good arguments for it, some of which I myself have argued previously).

While there isn't a chapter about psychology, he makes good use of it, something I liked. It can get too singular when only equipment/archeological finds are used.

Definately worth th read, even if you know a good about it already as it gives you an insight in the scolarly battles ragarding the issues (he keeps mentioning such fights).

[edyzmedieval]

No response from Osprey. I sent them a mail with all the details necessary, over 25 days passed, no books.

[cegorach]

That sounds strange considering the author - he's not some nobody, but an already established Osprey writer who specializes in the period. On top of that he's a Pole, can't get better than this.

I still have faith that everything will turn out OK, Warrior books are generally good, much better than the Men-at-arms series.


I need to wait for some other books in the same package, so Winged Hussar didn't arrive yet...

Anyway, EVERY single review of the book I have read is much the same - the book is TERRIBLE, full of mistakes and generally seems to be written as if with the purpose of trashing Husaria as much as possible.

There are numerous examples of the strange and unexpected (at least by me) attitude of the writer.

One of those:

quote
„and until now, all I've ever seen in Polish works is that the hussars were invincible, unstoppable, superior to everything they ever met...If you take the time to read Swedish, German, Austrian contemporary sources another very different voice comes through, which most patriotic Poles will not trouble to listen to, because they know better...”


Hmm... I might not be a professional, but I have no idea how educated person can claim such nonsense... Actually I can name at least 3 different authors who ctiticised the unit very much, even too much in some cases.

Apparently the author has some idea to become famous as the first unbiased writer or something, but first it is far too late, second he makes terrible mistakes in judgement and about simple facts like Husaria's lance lenght...


Overall I have no idea why he had spawned such a thing. Many people are pretty pissed off about the book and actually I have even some experts challenging Brzezinski for a serious discussion - without no aswer...

I need to chack the yahoo side where he explained what he has written and why, but with so many simple mistakes he would better claim he was temporary insane or something...

I really wish the author had better approach, he dosn't need to like the topic, but he could at least read more and not insult the knowledge of so numerous experts...

I guess I will better be more careful in future when I see a book written by Richard Brzezinski.:wall: :furious3:

[edyzmedieval]

Ole ole. My new batch of books has arrived.

The two byzantines Armies books, Gods Warriors, Ninja and Kingtiger Heavy Tank are in the package. :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Right some new books for May next year:

Naseby 1645 (Campaign)

The Fall of Constantinople: the Ottoman Conquest of Byzantium (Must be a General Military at 256 pages. Probably the 1453 Campaign book, plus the Janissaries Elite title and the first Ottoman Armies book I presume. Or maybe the Ottoman Empire Essential Histories one thrown in as well)

The Roman Army of the Punic Wars 264-146 BC (The most interesting of all. At 96 pages it seems to be a Campaign or an Essential Histories. I'm presuming its the latter but sounds strange to be honest considering we already have a similar MAA title)

[edyzmedieval]

The last 2 look interesting, although the Fall of Constantinople book is basically enough for historical information about the fall for a normal reader.

If you want serious learning, study the Byzantine empire from the beginning. :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just a quick update - the Roman Army in the Punic Wars book is a Battle Orders title, a first for the Ancient/Medieval era.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Only one new good book next June, but FINALLY!

Byzantine Infantryman: Eastern Roman Empire C.900-1204 (Warrior)

I don't know whose illustrating yet, but if its McBride that would be even better.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Next July we're getting The Castles of Edward I in Wales 1277-1307, a fortress title, and not before time it has to be said.

[The Wizard]

When's the Byzantine Warrior (finally!) title coming out?

[Duncan_Hardy]

I bought my first of the Essential Histories series yesterday (n.62: The Ottoman Empire 1326-1699); I can strongly recommend them. The layout is excellent, a logical portrayal of the period is kept lively with relevant maps and visual sources. They don't contain plates, but then again we don't buy books to look at the pretty pictures.... do we? :stupido3:

[DukeofSerbia]

I have several pages about Serbian medieval units. They are not good...:thumbsdown:

[edyzmedieval]

Only one new good book next June, but FINALLY!

Byzantine Infantryman: Eastern Roman Empire C.900-1204 (Warrior)

I don't know whose illustrating yet, but if its McBride that would be even better.

This is a must buy. Hurray! :book:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I just got The Hun and was annoyed to find it only had SIX plates. For a Warrior book, which used to have 10, this is pathetic, especially when one considers the price has gone up also.

[Orda Khan]

I just got The Hun and was annoyed to find it only had SIX plates. For a Warrior book, which used to have 10, this is pathetic, especially when one considers the price has gone up also.
I didn't expect a lot plate wise with this book, not enough is known about them. There is little archaeological evidence to build a reliable picture; it is not even known whether the Huns maintained their own dress and culture in Europe or whether they adopted that of their Germanic subjects. Most descriptions are the biased ramblings of those who tried to re-write history and vilify those who they failed to understand. Ammianus Marcellinus is one such historian. His work was all hearsay, yet it is this rubbish that fills the history books and opinions of the west.

About the content (since I was hoping for some new facts) is there much in the way of recently discovered information or is it just a re-hash of already printed material?
For what it's worth I will still order it

........Orda

[The Wizard]

I should be getting Sassanian Cavalry and Early Russian Armies quite soon. :yes:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Angus' cover work for the Baltic Crusades looks fantastic:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9886AL.JPG

[Innocentius]

Angus' cover work for the Baltic Crusades looks fantastic:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_img/titlecovers/S9886AL.JPG

It does, however, the previous books about Scandinavian armies weren't all too good, neither were the paintings. Incorrect facts and soldiers wearing fur, even during battles that were fought in summertime. It's not all snowy and pines up here ~:rolleyes:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

While I have heard a lot about the inaccuracies of the last Scandinavian books and that the accuracy of the images depicted aren't that great, I thought the actual quality of the plates was excellent.

[Innocentius]

May be so...Anyway, I'd feel more easy about this book if Nicolle wasn't involved, he's prone to totaly over-estimate the fighting abilities of eastern european people and sometimes simply shapes history so that it'll fit with his idea of it all (Battle on Lake Peipus 1242 anyone?). Also, Graham Turner is a a lot better painter, both when it comes to talent and historical accuracy. But let's no be too negative and hope for a good bok:yes:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Also, Graham Turner is a a lot better painter, both when it comes to talent and historical accuracy.

Mate I'll let you off on this occassion but if you knew anything about me and my love for Angus you would not say such comments while I was around.:laugh4:

[Orda Khan]

Mate I'll let you off on this occassion but if you knew anything about me and my love for Angus you would not say such comments while I was around.:laugh4:
Sorry BKB, I have to agree with Innocentius, Turner's work is better IMO, McBride cannot draw bows

......Orda

[The Wizard]

Graham Turner's work for the Armies of the Caliphates book is phenomenal, I might add. And while the work McBride's done for that Baltic Crusades book you showed (subject's also highly interesting), the plates he's made lately seem a bit under par. Sassanian Elite Cavalry, for instance, while chock full of excellent information, is a bit lacking in the artwork department.

Ah well, at least it isn't as bad as Rome's Enemies: The Parthians ~;) Armies of Medieval Russia 750 - 1250 is a good read and even better in the plates department, I might add.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Orda you mean compound bows, and for me that is pretty anal. Turner has a limited range and while I like him there is no life in his work for all the detail, and he just doesn't convey the feel and action that Angus does, no artist can.

And Angus is 75 now, I know he's not as good as he was due to his change in drawing style but he's still brilliant.

Christa Hook's artwork for The Hun for example is terrible, blurred beyond visibility and some of the worst I've seen in a while.

[The Wizard]

Hmph, I don't agree about McBride being able to portray action and movement very well. He's better for static scenes, or with little fast or major movement. IMO, Embleton's plates for The Sarmatians are the standard for good depiction of movement, although I know you won't agree. ~;)

[Orda Khan]

Sorry you see it as anal but surely he has done some research? Most, if not all of his depictions of Asiatic bows are totally inaccurate and so small as to resemble that of Cupid.
I am not claiming Turner to be above fault either

......Orda

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Great news lads, looks like Angus is doing the Byzantine Infantryman book! I'm really hoping for good pics of Dorostolon and Kleidon in there somewhere.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Just got the Scandinavian-Baltic Crusades and Angus really is back to his best - he no longer uses the charcoals he's utilized in recent years but is back to his old methods by the looks of things, and it pays dividends. Some of his best work in a long time, really atmospheric, good plates. Can't wait for his Byzantine Infantryman title now.

[DukeofSerbia]

My friend bought Men-at-Arms – Hungary and The Fall of Eastern Europe 1000-1568.
I am mainly disappointed, especially about Serbian military history :thumbsdown:. Those are only parts of wrong descriptions:



Its small army developed under Byzantine and Hungarian influence…

Army was typical for Early Slavs, and influence from Byzantium and Hungary was irrelevant. :book:



Swords were rare until late 14th century, by which time composite bows and crossbows were coming into use.

Ha ha ha. :laugh4: :beam: Composite bows in Serbia :dizzy2:. Even I am greatest Serbian patriot I wouldn’t claim that ever! Also, crossbow and arbalest had never large use in Serbia.



Armour was almost unknown until the 12th century…

Which is not true. Nobility used leather armor. :book:



Yet the Serbs did use mangonels in siege warfare…

This is not proven. Usage is proven for ballistae, catapults and trebuchets.:book:



While the Bulgars were supported by numerous Mongol and Wallachian horse archers, the Serbian force apparently included 1 000 Spaniards, perhaps Catalan veterans of Byzantine service.

Not true, again :thumbsdown:. In Velbužd, King Stefan Dečanski brought 1 300 German mercenaries hired in Venice. The core was 300 knights.

I found more inaccuracies... :no:

[DukeofSerbia]

Here’s another “brilliant” claims by David Nicolle in Men-at-Arms – Hungary and The Fall of Eastern Europe 1000-1568:



From the late 13th century increasing wealth from mining enabled Serbia’s rulers to recruit mercenaries, while the core of their army now consisted of armoured horse-archers equipped in Byzantine or elite Mongol style with composite bows, maces and horse-armour.

David forgot to write what type in mercenaries. King Stefan Milutin (1282-1321) had personal guard of 2 000 Cuman cavalrymen. He massively used Cumans as typical Turkopoles, but he also used Turks, Ossetinians (Alans), and Tatars (Mongols). After him usage of Turkopoles was abandoned.
But, what I underlined is much more interesting. Well, in late 13th century Serbian nobles fought as typical Western knights. Story about “armoured horse-archers equipped in Byzantine or elite Mongol style with composite bows, maces and horse-armour” is somebody’s imagination :beam:. Mace was popular among nobility, but never as sword. Composite bows :beam: I already commented yesterday.



Nevertheless, many light infantrymen still used javelins, although the crossbow became far the most important infantry weapon in the 14th century.

Crossbow never became the most important infantry weapon in the 14th century. :book: Bow was always and stayed until end of medieval Serbia 1459. Crossbows were used, but never as bows. And here is the reason - in feudal Serbia there was a class of people called vlasi (vlachs) who were cattle breeders. They had obligation to provide certain number of soldiers and they were archers in Serbian armies.

General history of Serbia I won’t comment, because there are a lot of inaccuracies, but Osprey is mainly about military…

[cegorach]

Don't worry Duke !

I have read over 200 Osprey books and almost in every single one which at least mentions Poland there are mistakes in this matter.

Just to name few ones.

The constant mistakes in any descriptions of the war in 1939 with repeated stupidities such as about the Polish airforce destroyed in first few days, or one of most ridiculous in an Elite series book which mentions that SS 'Kempf' division took Modlin fortress with only 15 men lost (in the reality they appeared in last few days and blocked the Polish garrison from the north - the direction noone targeted).
The stubbornly repeated idea that the battle of Raszyn in 1809 was lost by the Poles, the constant fixation on calling Westerplatte position in Danzig in 1939 a fortress, the numerous remarks here and there of various degree of pure nonsense and pure Soviet/Russian propaganda in Russian Men-at-Arms books...:wall:

I still cannot believe that in Man-at-Arms nr. 13 ( Cossacks( Polish-Lithuanian Uprising of 1830-31 ( called often Polish-Russian war of 1831) is described as 'civil unrest' (page 20)...

Lovely, it is like calling battle at Tannenberg in 1410 'a noisy debate'.:laugh4:


The worst thing is that NEW books repeat old mistakes and add new ones.
I guess it is so bloody difficult to read something different than old, 'reliable' sources.:book:

[Randarkmaan]

This is not proven. Usage is proven for ballistae, catapults and trebuchets.

Trebuchets are mangonels, counterweight mangonels to be exact, so it's sort of right.

Anyway there is a thing I've been wondering, is "The cult of the weermacht" widespread in the Osprey books? Because it seems likely if it is, because for a large number of military historian The Nazi German army is surrouned by a shroud of mystical awe and they talk enthusiastically about this and this 2nd Weermacht Panzerschlaffkampfgruppeabteilung mit edelweiss etc. I'm just wondering if this is true here as well.

[Condottiere]

Granted Men-at-Arms – Hungary and The Fall of Eastern Europe 1000-1568 covers a long and tumultuous period and trys to cover too many areas, which leads to generalizations and minor errors, but I didn't find anything egregious in the book.

Back in September, I wrote a review of Richard Brzezinski's Polish winged hussar: 1576-1775 - http://www.librarything.com/work/1318304

A great book that dispels several myths in a logical manner, backed up with accounts - not for nationalists or romanticists.

_______________________________________________

Expecting Crusader Castles in Cyprus, Greece and the Aegean 1191–1571 early in March. Should be an interesting read, though Nicolle detractors may want to look at something else.

I wonder what happened to the David Murphy's Osprey Warrior:Condottiere 1300-1500?

[Decker]

I am a World War Two buff(still have a longggg ways to go), I am new to the Osprey Publishing, and I am wondering if their reference books about the armies, equipment, formations, etc... is generally very accurate and are good for referencing and using for research? I haven't really read up on these subjects very much(which I should be doing) and I am wondering if Osprey is good to use for this sorta thing or is there another company that has better "info"?

[cegorach]

Back in September, I wrote a review of Richard Brzezinski's Polish winged hussar: 1576-1775 - http://www.librarything.com/work/1318304

A great book that dispels several myths in a logical manner, backed up with accounts - not for nationalists or romanticists.


I disagree. The book has numerous flaws.
The introduction is horrible and offending ( but puts the author in such a good mood and position hard to undermine without accusations for 'romantism and nationalism').He does so purpusefully - I have noticed this from his answers for criticism - below the acceptable level a respected historian should represent.


It is not completelly bad.
It adds something in two parts - the ones about camp servants and 'elear' i.e. 'chosen', volunteer force.

The rest is from good or avarage level to terrible - it represents outdated point of view of Jerzy Teodorczyk which was dominating among Polish historians untill most recent years - actually almost quotes Teodorczyk despite his errors found and criticised in more recent books.
Personally I was supricesed to read those in a work which (according to the author) dispells myths and challenges the beliefs of - who actually ? An avarage reader ? Someone who just heard about the cavalry and read nothing about it ? For sure someone who doesn't read in Polish so cannot compare the 'truths' written by the author with the supposedly flawed works of Polish historians who, ironically are quoted by Brzezinski in the very book.
EVERY SINGLE more detailed book about the same subject doesn't worship the unit as the author tries to claim.

That is unfortunate, because despite its mistakes other books of Mr.Brzezinski were - in my opinion - very good, however here it I can come to only one conclusion the author tries to demolish the legend, challenges the icon which unfortunatelly can only be done with FULL knowledge of the subject and the book shows lack of such.

You might be new to the historical period and clearly know nothing of other works about the Winged Hussars but please avoid Mr.Brzezinski's arrogance when dealing with it, OK ?:no:

I felt disgusted to the extreme when I have read the introduction which can be commented the following way - 'read noone else than me - they are all nationalists and fanatics - besides you don't know Polish so you can never verify if I wrote the truth - so believe me or be damned.'

If you can handle more detailed discussion you can always use PMs, all right ?


P.S. I have bought 5 'Winged Hussars', fortunatelly I was able to withdraw from the deal after getting the first one and realising my mistake.
It would be the worst possible idea to give this to anyone with knowledge about the subject here - other works are cheaper and more datailed - you can get 3 better books for the price of this one, here in Poland.

[cegorach]

In a way it could be hard to face such a temptation...

Imagine yourself as the sole source for numerous english-language readers - they cannot challenge you, they have to believe you so half-complete selecton of sources or references will do the job.

People can lose their head with such possibilities open to explore...

Still cannot undersatand why the author wrote such offending introduction - he has open access to even most recent works of polish historians - I know that from his answers in zaglobastavern so why he didn't use them ?:inquisitive:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Osprey are making up for a rather lacklustre year in the Ancient/Medieval genre with some great Nov/Dec titles lads!

First, a long-overdue Thermopylae campaign book. Richard Hook will probably illustrate this one.

Secondly, a 'Pirate of the Far East 941-1644AD' Warrior book. Interesting subject. Turnbull of course is writing it, don't know about the illustrator.

Thirdly, a 'Teutonic Knight 1190-1561' Warrior book. I've been waiting for this one for a while. Turner's illustrating, shame its not Angus.

But Angus is illustrating his third book of the year in the shape of 'The Army of Herod the Great', a MAA title. A bumper year for Angus certainly! Should be an interesting book about an overlooked subject. Unfortunately, a seemingly tie-in title on Fortresses of Judea has been delayed until 2008.

There's also a Japanese Castles in Korea 1592-98AD Fortress book coming out.

Also there's a Soldier of the Pharaoh: Middle Kingdom Egypt Warrior book coming out (probably to tie-in with the Hittite Warrior), a Castles of Henry VIII Fortress title, and a Castles of Edward I on its way.

I'm itching to see Angus' Byzantine Infantryman book - its an area I've learned a ton about and I have some scenes I'd really like to see him depict. Condottiere (Turner) should also be pretty good.

[DukeofSerbia]

Don't worry Duke !

I have read over 200 Osprey books and almost in every single one which at least mentions Poland there are mistakes in this matter.

I always say it can be and will be worse! :laugh4:



It would be the worst possible idea to give this to anyone with knowledge about the subject here – other works are cheaper and more datailed - you can get 3 better books for the price of this one, here in Poland.

I completely agree.
Btw, price of Osprey’s books varies in Serbia (read Belgrade, because you can buy them only in our capital) from ~7 to ~20 euros.



Granted Men-at-Arms – Hungary and The Fall of Eastern Europe 1000-1568 covers a long and tumultuous period and trys to cover too many areas, which leads to generalizations and minor errors, but I didn't find anything egregious in the book.

Not minor errors, huge! :thumbsdown: I just posted about Serbia (just military, not touching general history), and I didn’t touch Bulgaria, and other countries.
They wrote book in manner “Serbia was between Hungary and Byzantium – conclusion: they had similar warfare to them…” :wall:

[Incongruous]

Well Since I started collecting last feb, I have a wopping five!

Essential Histories.
The Hundred Years War (really puts everything into perspective)
Thirty Years war (my favourite book at the moment)

Then I have Arthur and the AS wars
Samurai
And Viking Saxons and Normans.

But, I have heard, through my spy network that me ole'man has just orderec for me a wopping ten books! I am salivating at the thought of smelling them, then stroking them, then fibally putting them all in a row on a bookshelf, and showing them off to hot chicks. :2thumbsup: :shame: :sweatdrop: :whip:

Yep I need:help:

[cutepuppy]

But, I have heard, through my spy network that me ole'man has just orderec for me a wopping ten books! I am salivating at the thought of smelling them, then stroking them, then fibally putting them all in a row on a bookshelf, and showing them off to hot chicks. :2thumbsup: :shame: :sweatdrop: :whip:

Yep I need:help:

Aaaahh, that's the spirit, young man. ~D

[ShadesWolf]

Not a lot for me over the next few months :no:

[Duke John]

Sorry BKB, I have to agree with Innocentius, Turner's work is better IMO, McBride cannot draw bows

Also, Graham Turner is a a lot better painter, both when it comes to talent and historical accuracy.

Graham Turner's work for the Armies of the Caliphates book is phenomenal, I might add.
You are losing ground, BKB! :wink:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

You are losing ground, BKB! :wink:

You know me well enough by now DJ, my opinion is the only one that matters:laugh4:

[MeinPanzer]

But Angus is illustrating his third book of the year in the shape of 'The Army of Herod the Great', a MAA title. A bumper year for Angus certainly! Should be an interesting book about an overlooked subject. Unfortunately, a seemingly tie-in title on Fortresses of Judea has been delayed until 2008.

This is both good and bad news... as a huge fan of Angus, I'm really happy to see him illustrate another Hellenistic book, especially one on an Eastern subject. However, this will be another crappy-plate-and-pure-speculation-reconstruction book, like the recent Hun one. There is next to no info about the appearance or armament of Herod's army in either literary or archaeological sources. I would expect many a photograph of late Hellenistic Judaean fortification ruins in the text :no:.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I though the Hun one was pretty terrible, and that's probably why it only had 6 plates.

[Dave1984]

This was on an e-group I subscribe to, and may be of interest to some on here.


"Gentlemen,

Bad News. I just had a call from Osprey, who told me that Angus McBride
has just passed away. Apparently the 76-year old artist suffered from a
major heart attack. He had recently moved from South Africa to Ireland
to be with his daughter, and was living and working from a cottage in
the grounds.

I worked with him on a series of four pirate books for Osprey, and
found him an extremely charming, witty and fun-loving gentleman. He was
by far the best and most respected military artist of his generation,
and we'll all feel his loss.

Angus Konstam
Edinburgh"

[Conqueror]

Oh this is very sad news :sad:

Rest in peace, Angus. There is life in your art that will never die :bow:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Terrible news. I'm gutted. The greatest military artist. None come close. I doubt I'll be getting anymore Osprey books.

None of the others come close. Richard hook, turner, no one. Jesus this is horrible. A sad day. Two more of his books to look forward to and maybe some unpublished images that hopefully will see the light of day. For me this is the death of Osprey. The books are shite now anyway.

[Innocentius]

Terrible news. I'm gutted. The greatest military artist. None come close. I doubt I'll be getting anymore Osprey books.

None of the gashes come close. Richard hook, turner, no one. Jesus this is horrible. A sad day. Two more of his books to look forward to and maybe some unpublished images that hopefully will see the light of day. This is the death of Osprey. The books are shite now anyway.

Of course It's sad news about Angus, and he was indeed a talented artist (RIP), but you are way overestimating him. Embleton, Turner and Hook have always outshone him in both realism and accuracy and especially Turner's artwork is simply amazing. Different from McBride, none of the above have included any historical errors (I must say I was quite dissapointed with the plates in Scandinavian Medieval Armies (2)).

Nonetheless, thank you for all the good books, Angus:shame:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Of course It's sad news about Angus, and he was indeed a talented artist (RIP), but you are way overestimating him. Embleton, Turner and Hook have always outshone him in both realism and accuracy and especially Turner's artwork is simply amazing. Different from McBride, none of the above have included any historical errors (I must say I was quite dissapointed with the plates in Scandinavian Medieval Armies (2)).

Nonetheless, thank you for all the good books, Angus:shame:


Your entitled to your opinion. Its wrong of course. As soon as you said Embleton I stopped reading.

[Innocentius]

Your entitled to your opinion. Its wrong of course. As soon as you said Embleton I stopped reading.

That's a very mature attitude... I believe you're just kidding me anyway so I'll disregard that and instead ask you to bring up an historical error drawn by Embleton (who is involved in re-enacting for what I know).
My "favourite" plate of McBride's is that of the Gotland "militia" in Scandinavian Medieval Armies (2), invluding a "Gotland rural nobleman":laugh4: . Also there is his Halqa-archer in The Mamluk 1250-1517 wearing an insane amount of armour and clothes in the desert...

[edyzmedieval]

How awful. RIP Angus. You work will never die. :bow:

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

That's a very mature attitude... I believe you're just kidding me anyway so I'll disregard that and instead ask you to bring up an historical error drawn by Embleton (who is involved in re-enacting for what I know).
My "favourite" plate of McBride's is that of the Gotland "militia" in Scandinavian Medieval Armies (2), invluding a "Gotland rural nobleman":laugh4: . Also there is his Halqa-archer in The Mamluk 1250-1517 wearing an insane amount of armour and clothes in the desert...

Embleton's greatest historical error was picking up a pencil in the first place. Angus may have made the odd historical error but I appreciated the mere quality and scene he captured rather than anal matters. The guy has just died and you're nitpicking his work, I think you're the one who needs to adopt a more mature attitude and show some respect.

[Innocentius]

Embleton's greatest historical error was picking up a pencil in the first place.

And you base that on what? You might prefer Angus's paintings over Embleton's but if you can't bring up a single argument as to why you loath all other Osprey painters but McBride...well...


Angus may have made the odd historical error but I appreciated the mere quality and scene he captured rather than anal matters. The guy has just died and you're nitpicking his work, I think you're the one who needs to adopt a more mature attitude and show some respect.

First I think that all of the artists I mentioned draw even better than McBride, but that's very much a personal opinion.
Second: Anal matters? I guess the fact that he included complete unrealistic "details" and invented a new form of nobility is going anal... Also I have all respect for McBride ans his artwork, but few things get me so upset as people acting truly immature (both "IRL" but even more so on the internet) and that got me into this argumentative frenzy. I'm sorry if I came across as disrespectful in your eyes, but on the other hand you've just discredited some of Osprey Publishing's finest artists.

[Geoffrey S]

Hello. Can you please drop this line of debate? :yes:

[Innocentius]

Hello. Can you please drop this line of debate? :yes:

Oh, I wish you could call this a debate...

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Angus Mcbride may not have been the most accurate historically but he was the best artist for osprey and military art in general. On that point there is no debate needed.

If you can't see that I can't be arsed to carry on anything further with you

Whats really annoyed me here is that you know I like the guy and he has just died. You just came on here to belittle his work and you knew it would annoy me. You couldn't even pay the guy some respect in death. Without him Osprey would have died long ago.

Of course everyone has a right to their opinion but to believe the other artists in question show more life and depth than Mcbride's pieces is complete bollocks. If you asked any of the artists for osprey they would say the same thing.

Yes there are some mistakes in his work. The death of Julian in the Sassanid Cavalryman for example. Its obvious the legionaries are wearing antiquated armour but it doesn't detract from the beauty of the picture. Have we come to the point where we want people standing still with complete accuracy? I want life and depictions of famous scenes when looking at military art.

[Innocentius]

Angus Mcbride may not have been the most accurate historically but he was the best artist for osprey and military art in general. On that point there is no debate needed.

If you can't see that I can't be arsed to carry on anything further with you

So what you're basically saying is "If you don't agree with me then I won't discuss with you". That's just great. Besides, this contradicts with this:


Of course everyone has a right to their opinion


Yes there are some mistakes in his work. The death of Julian in the Sassanid Cavalryman for example. Its obvious the legionaries are wearing antiquated armour but it doesn't detract from the beauty of the picture. Have we come to the point where we want people standing still with complete accuracy? I want life and depictions of famous scenes when looking at military art.

Again, very much a matter of personal opinion. I read Osprey to (hopefully) learn a little, and I prefer everything being clean and displayed in an overlookable manner like in many of Turner's books (like in the English Medieval Knight books). Of course I appreciate the scenery in McBride's plates but if it was scenery I'd wanted I'd probably have bought a book containing artwork meant to be artwork, not artwork meant to display what arms and armour was used hundreds of years ago.


Whats really annoyed me here is that you know I like the guy and he has just died. You just came on here to belittle his work and you knew it would annoy me. You couldn't even pay the guy some respect in death. Without him Osprey would have died long ago.

A pretty much entirely false accusation. Like I've stated several times in this thread I have all respect for McBride and his contributions to Osprey, although my true favourties of his are his depiction of LotR orcs (http://www.aumania.it/fa_mcbride1.html)).

Again, I did not come here to belittle his work and I probably would've never brought it up if you hadn't acted so disrespectfully towards other illustrators whom I hold to be better than McBride. Try to see things from a different perspective.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

His LOTR pictures are probably his worse pieces of work. Yet they are still good compared to other artists standards.

I wasn't acting disrespectful to other Osprey artists. I was just telling the truth

[Innocentius]

His LOTR pictures are probably his worse pieces of work. Yet they are still good compared to other artists standards.

I was only refering to his depiction of orcs. Otherwise the only artist who can draw Tolkien-related art are Howe and Lee.


I wasn't acting disrespectful to other Osprey artists. I was just telling the truth

It's kind of amazing that you're still so narrow-minded and self-centered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-centered). People capable of writing understandable English have usually passed the stage where they consider their own opinion and interests canon. I'm afraid there's only one cure for that, and that is growing up:no:
Also you did nothing to really answer any of the points I brought up in my last post.

[Roman_Man#3]

I wasn't acting disrespectful to other Osprey artists. I was just telling the truth


Embleton's greatest historical error was picking up a pencil in the first place.


As soon as you said Embleton I stopped reading.

So this is not disrespectful? If you can prove to me that no one else can draw worth beans, please prove it, otherwise stop continuing this debate.

And your point of
Your entitled to your opinion. Its wrong of course. can be used against you. Innocentius has has stated
ie.

other illustrators whom I hold to be better than McBride. that he holds other illustrators better than Angus, while you hold onto the belief that McBride is better than the others. So you are entitled to your opinion, as wrong as it might be.

The Osprey books are meant to be historically accurate. Hence, I would like someone who never made a historical mistake compared to someone who made a few, no matter how awesome the scenery was.

It is quite immature of you to not see any other point of views other than your own, especially when Innocentius has stated multiple times it is sad McBride passed away, he was a good artist, he did not mean to belittle McBride etc.

Please, grow up,
RM3

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Sorry Roman your giving your opinion like I'm supposed to care. This argument doesn't even concern you. Don't ever tell me to grow up. You have attempted to assert some sort of misplaced authority like I am a naughty schoolboy. You look stupid doing so.

You have entered and talked me like your an admin. Your remarks have really grated me. At least i have heard of Innocentius, i have never seen you post in this thread. To be honest I don't even know who the hell you are.

I have contested Mcbride's work with people I respect like Duke John. I won't be changing my opinion about anything. I never initiated this conversation in the first place with Innocentius. The only reason why Innocentius is upset with Mcbride is that he wasn't accurate with the Scandinavian armies books. That is the bottom line. I can understand that but I feel he should admit it

[Roman_Man#3]

I don't care if this doesn't concern me and I certainly don't care that I have never posted in this section before me. Who the hell are you to talk to me in this manner, I was voicing my opinion.

Do you honestly think I care if I look stupid doing this? It annoys me to see some people won't even consider others points of views. Especially when you state, quite blankly and rudely, that others opinions are wrong. So you must think you know all eh?:laugh4: I needed a good laugh.

You, and Innocentius, both have different opinions on who is, and what makes, a better artist. You cannot say one opinion is more wrong than the other. Have you ever heard the saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" or a variation "Good taste is in the eye of the beholder"? My opinion is this is becoming a silly debate, and I doubt you will ever agree on who is better, because you each of different tastes and opinions.

Good day to you,
RM3 :bow:

[Innocentius]

Sorry Roman your giving your opinion like I'm supposed to care. This argument doesn't even concern you. Don't ever tell me to grow up. You have attempted to assert some sort of misplaced authority like I am a naughty schoolboy. You look stupid doing so.

You have entered and talked me like your an admin. Your remarks have really grated me. At least i have heard of Innocentius, i have never seen you post in this thread. To be honest I don't even know who the hell you are.

That's just basically you being rude, but that's no concern of mine:juggle2:


I have contested Mcbride's work with people I respect like Duke John. I won't be changing my opinion about anything. I never initiated this conversation in the first place with Innocentius. The only reason why Innocentius is upset with Mcbride is that he wasn't accurate with the Scandinavian armies books. That is the bottom line. I can understand that but I feel he should admit it

First of all: No-one ever asked you to change your opinion, although you have disrespected pretty much the entire world by acting as if your opinion was canon. Please...
Again you come with false accusations. I brought up the - very valid - point of a few of McBride's inaccuracies to show that regarding the other illustrators as useless in comparison to McBride isn't very fair (or even smart). Of course I took an example from a book that I've recently read (i.e. Scandinavian Medieval Armies 2) and the major innacuracy displayed in some of the plates is easier for me to spot since I know a thing or two about Scandinavia for obvious reasons. I'm as much upset with flaws in a book about Scandinavia as any other (like for example The Mamluks). And admit what, by the way? That I dislike McBride (which I've stated several times I do not) because I'm biased?
I'll admit whatever if you can just admit that you're acting in an immature and egocentric way, and that you are not to decide what is right and wrong.

I'm sorry, but I've actually lost all respect for you. I thought a person who had contributed so much to this forum and MTW in general would act in a more mature and grown-up way:thumbsdown:

[The Wizard]

Halt! Schnell! Ich kann das nicht zustehen!

Excuse the bad, Dutchified German, but...

The man has just died. Now, we have our different opinions on the quality of his work, but now is not the time for those. I think most of the people here know each other's tastes as to the Osprey artwork, and the corresponding artists behind it, and I also think that all of us understand that none of us is gonna change anybody's opinion on it.

So, let's agree to disagree, and pay our respects to a man who spent his life giving his all to improve our beloved Osprey series.

Rest in peace, Angus.

[Duke John]

Sad to hear, but the man sure did give us a large and varied legacy of military art. You can drink to that, BKB!

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

First of all: No-one ever asked you to change your opinion, although you have disrespected pretty much the entire world by acting as if your opinion was canon. Please...
Again you come with false accusations. I brought up the - very valid - point of a few of McBride's inaccuracies to show that regarding the other illustrators as useless in comparison to McBride isn't very fair (or even smart). Of course I took an example from a book that I've recently read (i.e. Scandinavian Medieval Armies 2) and the major innacuracy displayed in some of the plates is easier for me to spot since I know a thing or two about Scandinavia for obvious reasons. I'm as much upset with flaws in a book about Scandinavia as any other (like for example The Mamluks). And admit what, by the way? That I dislike McBride (which I've stated several times I do not) because I'm biased?
I'll admit whatever if you can just admit that you're acting in an immature and egocentric way, and that you are not to decide what is right and wrong.

I'm sorry, but I've actually lost all respect for you. I thought a person who had contributed so much to this forum and MTW in general would act in a more mature and grown-up way:thumbsdown:

I've disrespected the entire world have eh? So you are pretty much the entire world? Sorry but I fail to see it, no one apart from you cares about what I have said. Also, clearly, you're respect means nothing to me; as I said, you did not respect my opinion in the first place about me not liking other Osprey artists, so why can I not contest yours? What is wrong with presenting different views these days, why do we all just have to accept opinions? Isn't that how discussions are started in the first place?

You want reasons why I don't rate the artists in question higher than McBride? I'll present them to you. I hate Embleton, we'll get that out the way for a start. I find his painting style mediocre, his Franks, Vikings, Saxons and Romans in particular were all poorly conceived, and unconvincing. Furthermore, he lacks ambition, often drawing inanimate figures. Lifelessness is for me the key factor here. I like my historical paintings to be actual works of art, not just reference points.

Now onto the next batch, the Hooks. Now all 3 I don't mind, I find their paintings on the whole fine, with one or two exceptional pieces, such as some of Richard's work in Concord Publications Warlord Armies. Christa usually is pretty good, as is Adam, with their work very similar to each other. Again though, for me it just lacks life, despite their attempts at battle scenes. I can't get into it. Actually good works of art here, but they just don't excite me, I can understand why people would like these I'll admit.

Now onto Graham Turner and Wayne Reynolds, who are probably my favourite military artists after McBride. Reynolds has a very unique style, which I always appreciate, and although cartoony I do appreciate his scenes and feel he captures a strong essence of whatever he is doing, particularly with Japan or Celtic peoples. His Templar book however I felt was a step too far, he's much better doing fearsome warrior peoples with character, it better befits his comic style.

Turner is an exceptional artist, of that there is no doubt. His works on Medieval England are great, and he often does some very good battle scenes. Particularly good are his close ups of figures during battles. However, though technically sound, his range is extremely limited - aside from England/Renaissance era warfare, I've only really seen him do the Caliphates book. Angus has tried his hand at almost every type of warrior, and it is immensely difficult I imagine to get them all right, he should be allowed some margin for error there. Turner sticks to what he knows best, and for the playing it safe shows a lack of ambition. He does capture the age, but his figures look a little too robotic for my liking. I also have a real problem with his attempts at capturing movement, and movement during battle in particular. A case in point is this picture below:

http://concord-publications.com/6008/6008-02.jpg

Though everything LOOKS great here, for me the picture actually makes little sense. We have a Burgundian knight, in full ceremonial regalia, isolated from wherever he is supposed to be. One gets the impression he has been surprised, so it can't be in battle, for why would he be shocked? Turner would have us believe that the Ghent militiaman has shocked this man from out of nowhere, and has got to within slashing distance of him without the knight noticing, and even getting ready to defend himself. In reality he would have foreseen this, had his sword or lance at the ready and dealt with the nuisance. Then we have the biggest problem of all. Look at the stance of the Ghent soldier. Does that honestly look like the stance of a soldier ready to strike hard at the enemy? Of course not, he'd get no power behind his blow at all, just try doing that stance yourself and you'll see what I mean. The horse as well, is perfectly still, as if nothing is happening in the scene. Turner has a problem with his stances elsewhere also, including the middle knight figure in his Agincourt painting in the English Knight 1400-1500 book. He just looks awkward.

So why do I like Angus? Essentially, he paints proper works of art and unlike any author truly manages to capture the age/scene. The dark skies, muddy environments, murky forests all feature more character alone than the figures in the aforementioned artists' works. People are not mere robots, but real characters brought to life. Battle scenes are done with tremendous gusto, and movement is achieved brilliantly. Plus his range is incredible - Mongols to Incas, Vikings to Hittites, Byzantines to Samurai, Zulus to Conquistadors - there is none better. When I hear a book is coming out by Angus, I actually look forward to it, he just excites me like no other artist. I want to see everything he's ever done. His work is full of character, words can't really describe it. Look at this picture for example:

http://members.aol.com/scothist/images/picts1.jpg

This just LOOKS like the Dark Ages. The thistle, the craggy ground, the dark skies - Pictish Scotland is captured just brilliantly. And Celtic peoples - by God no one does them like McBride. He makes them look fierce, big, and just defines for me how they should look. His Galloglaich are just perfect, no one else can do them like he does. Just a truly great artist.

In short, I can begrudgingly accept why people may like the Hooks, Turner, and Reynolds more, but I am not giving any ground at all on Embleton, I just find it unfathomable that people would rate his work over Angus'.

In other news a Medieval Polish Armies 900-1500 (Embleton unfortunately), Vienna 1683AD and Poitiers 732AD campaign books are coming out early next year.

[Warmaster Horus]

Sorry to jump in your little "debacle".

Also, clearly, you're respect means nothing to me; as I said, you did not respect my opinion in the first place about me not liking other Osprey artists, so why can I not contest yours?
Actually, you're the one who started this, really.
Innocentius posted right after the posting of Angus' passing. He gave his opinion, that others were better than Angus. Here's your reply.

Your entitled to your opinion. Its wrong of course. As soon as you said Embleton I stopped reading.
If that's not lack of respect, I don't know what it is.

That's a very mature attitude... I believe you're just kidding me anyway
Apparently he was wrong.

You posted your opinion again. Why? We know it.
Embleton may be worse than others, but that would be in your opinion. If Innocentius likes him, let him.

Also, he respected you as a person helping others, I believe. And I think he respects your opinion.

[The Wizard]

Guys, stop it. Save it for another time. Angus McBride deserves respect regardless of of the opinion you might or might not have on his work. There is absolutely no reason to go have half a flame war in this thread over this, especially not when the issue at hand should be paying our respects to a dead man.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Sorry to jump in your little "debacle".

Actually, you're the one who started this, really.
Innocentius posted right after the posting of Angus' passing. He gave his opinion, that others were better than Angus. Here's your reply.

If that's not lack of respect, I don't know what it is.

Apparently he was wrong.

You posted your opinion again. Why? We know it.
Embleton may be worse than others, but that would be in your opinion. If Innocentius likes him, let him.

Also, he respected you as a person helping others, I believe. And I think he respects your opinion.

So its okay for Innocentius to contest MY opinion, as he originally did, but not for me to contest his? Apparently I was "overestimating him." Where is my opinion being respected or accepted here? I don't see any difference at all. According to Innocentius, my opinion was wrong. That's fine, but apparently I'm not allowed to state that his opinion was wrong? Total double standards, apparently I'm totally in the wrong here yet I did not start this debate, Innocentius took it upon himself to reply and should have been aware that I was going to reply in kind.

Opinions can be wrong - look at Fred Phelps and his hate-preaching Church. Its an opinion, but by God its wrong. Now I'm obviously not comparing that situation to his, but I know for a fact everyone in this thread has contested an opinion at some point, and if you do that, you're are fundamentally saying that the other guy's opinion is wrong, and that is absolutely true. If you are a real fan of the LOTR films and someone says they're crap, and names a film that in your opinion is terrible as being better than them, say like Norbit, a really rancid film, how many here would simply say "Fair enough", when you really feel that they are simply wrong? I don't see my posts as disrespecting Innocentius, I simply see it as arguing for something I feel incredibly passionate about.

Angus had died. I thoroughly expected every post after to say "Great artist, RIP", or words to that effect. I felt that Innocentius had disrespected Angus' legacy by saying what he did, and was frankly angered by it. He could have waited a few days, as I'd just found out and he could see by my post I was clearly upset about it. I wanted to praise him as the best in his death but it appears that could not be tolerated around here.

[Master_Thief]

Excuse me whilst I step in here and pay my respects. I recently acquired the Anglo-Celtic Wars men at arms book, and I can honestly say that the artwork is absolutley stunning. The detail, the poses, the overall composition. Everything works perfcetly. Rest in peace Angus, you'll be sorely missed by everyone i'm sure. I would also like to take the time to support Baba Ga'on in saying GIVE IT A REST GUYS. You each have your different opinions. That's more than fair enough but there is absolutley no need to engage in such a bitter argument. Simply pay your respects and move on.

[Innocentius]

Guys, stop it. Save it for another time. Angus McBride deserves respect regardless of of the opinion you might or might not have on his work. There is absolutely no reason to go have half a flame war in this thread over this, especially not when the issue at hand should be paying our respects to a dead man.

I wouldn't call it a flame war really (not even half a frame war). I think it's OK (and actually good, to some degree) to debate things and voice your opinion. I agree this could perhaps be in a separate thread, but I think it's wrong to keep people from discussing as long as it's done in a - fairly - mature and sensed way.

And then I'd like to thank BKB for his first post where he actually gave reasons for his dislike of other artists. Thank you.


I've disrespected the entire world have eh? So you are pretty much the entire world?

I think you know what I meant (and I actually wrote it). Claiming that "Everyone whos opinion differ from mine is wrong" is disrespecting a lot of people.


but I am not giving any ground at all on Embleton, anyone who holds that opinion is simply deluded.

You may mislike Embleton, but calling everyone who appreciates his paintings deluded is an offence. Not that I care really, but that's certainly against the rules of this forum.
Even though you've finally given some reasons I still think you have a lot of maturing to do. Everything's not about you, believe it or not.


Where is my opinion being respected or accepted here?

Oh, God (no, I'm not religious but since you can't swear in here)... Read! This thread is full of comments (many of them mine) stating that you have the right to your own opinion and no-one has tried to change your mind about regarding McBride as superior, the only thing I reacted over was your immature attitude, and that's what this debate is really about. A "Who's the best Osprey artist?" debate would just be stupid since everyone have different opinions and an opinion can't be wrong.

Your example with the hate-church is a good one. You may not at all agree with those people (I certainly don't), but their opinion can't be wrong. An opinion is based on personal knowledge, experience and personality. Knowledge and experiences may be lacking or so incorrect that they create a false image of the world (now we're talking really far-out opinions though, nazism and such). Those combined with personality (face it, all people all 100% egoistic at heart (Ghandi excluded~;)) can create opinions that may seem shocking to all else, but the can't be wrong. It's basic psychology.

Also, in a case as this one, when the opinions involved are so unimportant to our lifestyles etc. (Osprey is simply luxury consumption and nothing vital) it's important to respect others' opinions. Like them or not.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

You may mislike Embleton, but calling everyone who appreciates his paintings deluded is an offence. Not that I care really, but that's certainly against the rules of this forum.
Even though you've finally given some reasons I still think you have a lot of maturing to do. Everything's not about you, believe it or not.


Firstly, I'd hardly say I'm breaking the rules. And secondly, no, everything is not about me; that day in particular and subsequent posts after D Wilson's should have been about paying respect to Angus and not drawing deficiencies to his artwork. If it cannot be said he was the best then, then when can it be said? I think you may forget that with maturity also comes tact, which is perhaps a department where you might need some development. Your thoughts I feel could have at least waited until a few days after the event.

[Warmaster Horus]

Once more, I jump in.


Firstly, I'd hardly say I'm breaking the rules
Of course, you wouldn't say that. But, if it's not against the Org rules (which you probably know better than me), it's rather .... immoral, unkind, etc, to say so.

Innocentius did pay his respects to Angus. He then defended other artists. He mentioned "some" historical errors, and that the other artists should not be ignored.
Also, tact comes after maturity. Tact is more "rhetorical", if I can put it like that, more "in the speech". Whereas maturity is part of the base forming tact. Maturity is in the mind, and tact in the words, if I could say it like that. You can admit a different opinion, but you can tactfully say that you disagree.

And, say, how would he have honestly, hypocritical-lessly, said "RIP Angus, your work was the best." Then, a few days later, say "Other artists are better than Angus."
And grief, or the sadness of loss, for some never leaves.


If it cannot be said he was the best then, then when can it be said?

Maybe never, if one thinks he was horrible. It's all a matter of opinion.

Now, I will heed the words of Baba Ga'on. I'll avoid saying any more. And, of course, I urge you to start another thread. This was about Osprey books, after all.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Innocentius did pay his respects to Angus. He then defended other artists. He mentioned "some" historical errors, and that the other artists should not be ignored.
Also, tact comes after maturity. Tact is more "rhetorical", if I can put it like that, more "in the speech". Whereas maturity is part of the base forming tact. Maturity is in the mind, and tact in the words, if I could say it like that. You can admit a different opinion, but you can tactfully say that you disagree.

And, say, how would he have honestly, hypocritical-lessly, said "RIP Angus, your work was the best." Then, a few days later, say "Other artists are better than Angus."
And grief, or the sadness of loss, for some never leaves.


A simple RIP Angus would have done, I was not looking for recognition of his skills as an artist, just respect. What I did not think it was time for was a discussion on who is the best artist, which is sadly what has proceeded from the initial announcement.

[Warmaster Horus]

That's what he did:

Of course It's sad news about Angus, and he was indeed a talented artist (RIP), but you are way overestimating him. Embleton, Turner and Hook have always outshone him in both realism and accuracy and especially Turner's artwork is simply amazing. Different from McBride, none of the above have included any historical errors (I must say I was quite dissapointed with the plates in Scandinavian Medieval Armies (2)).


EDIT: sorry, didn't see the "simple" part. But, in the end, what he said was "RIP Angus, you were good".

[Geoffrey S]

A simple RIP Angus would have done, I was not looking for recognition of his skills as an artist, just respect. What I did not think it was time for was a discussion on who is the best artist, which is sadly what has proceeded from the initial announcement.
...

Terrible news. I'm gutted. The greatest military artist. None come close. I doubt I'll be getting anymore Osprey books.

None of the gashes come close. Richard hook, turner, no one. Jesus this is horrible. A sad day. Two more of his books to look forward to and maybe some unpublished images that hopefully will see the light of day. This is the death of Osprey. The books are shite now anyway.
I agree, a simple RIP Angus would have been more than enough.

It also would have been better if Innocentius had said that other artists are underrated, rather than calling Angus overrated. Thankfully, he corrected that quickly.

[Innocentius]

...
It also would have been better if Innocentius had said that other artists are underrated, rather than calling Angus overrated. Thankfully, he corrected that quickly.

What? First of all: Why should I've said that other artists where underrated when they're not?
Secondly, I never called McBride overrated. I said that BKB overestimated him, that and nothing else. And what do you mean by "thankfully, he corrected that quickly"? I did not edit my post or anything.


What I did not think it was time for was a discussion on who is the best artist, which is sadly what has proceeded from the initial announcement.

I believe you could have honoured McBride's memory without discrediting other artists (in fact all other Osprey illustrators). Without the unnecessary comment about Hook, Turner etc. I believe this "discussion" would've never taken place.

[Geoffrey S]

What? First of all: Why should I've said that other artists where underrated when they're not?
Secondly, I never called McBride overrated. I said that BKB overestimated him, that and nothing else. And what do you mean by "thankfully, he corrected that quickly"? I did not edit my post or anything.
Sorry, misquoted you; I did mean overestimated when I wrote that. What I meant was that stating that someone is "way overestimating" McBride implies that artist is at fault, and hence can be considered offensive in the light of his recent demise; what I meant with correcting, is that in later posts, you've made absolutely clear that what you're arguing is not that McBride is worse, rather that other artists aren't much worse or as bad as some claim. That is more reasonable in my eyes than what you first said, and certainly more reasonable than the stance taken by The Blind King of Bohemia.

[cegorach]

Personally I am disgusted with the entire argument 'over the grave'.

It is common to pay last tributes with a doze of words which can be considered as not fair by some...

Guys can you imagine such argument in a graveyard or in a chapel ? 'No the guy wasn't so good as you said he cheated in his tax reports for example...':juggle2:


Sorry but McBride is considered as a legend by many - by me too.

Personally I like Turner more, but at such time I wouldn't engage in a dispute that he is better, because McBride's first name could be called Osprey McBride - say McBride think Osprey and the opposite and so on.

So R.I.P Angus McBride and silence over this grave.:whip:

[Innocentius]

Personally I am disgusted with the entire argument 'over the grave'.

It is common to pay last tributes with a doze of words which can be considered as not fair by some...

Guys can you imagine such argument in a graveyard or in a chapel ? 'No the guy wasn't so good as you said he cheated in his tax reports for example...':juggle2:


I understand and agree with you, but what if someone said this at a funeral: "This guys was the greatest, but all his colleagues were worthless"? Wouldn't the deceased also be quite upset by this?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I understand and agree with you, but what if someone said this at a funeral: "This guys was the greatest, but all his colleagues were worthless"? Wouldn't the deceased also be quite upset by this?

Perhaps, but by calling that particularly person the greatest, aren't you in essence saying everyone else isn't good enough anyway? Also, if that was said at a funeral, would you feel it wise to stand up and say "Hang on though, the guy was good, but he wasn't the best..." I mean it would hardly be appropriate would it? A lot of things are said at times of anguish that might not necessarily be entirely suitable, but usually its best to just let that person have their say and try to ignore it. The following is a rather morbid situation but a good one I can liken it to; say if I attended my grandfather's funeral, and said "He was the best grandad bar none, I mean no other comes close", you might be sitting there thinking "Hang on, I know mine does", but that probably isn't the best occasion to stand up and protest is it? The person is sad, and emotional, and its probably better to just leave them be. Its natural they will say such things about someone they held in high regard, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have set out to offend the other grandads (or artists in this case), its just that they felt strongly about the person involved.

I know its a somewhat far-fetched analogy but the principle's the same.

[The Wizard]

I understand and agree with you, but what if someone said this at a funeral: "This guys was the greatest, but all his colleagues were worthless"? Wouldn't the deceased also be quite upset by this?

Perhaps, but the reply could just as easily have been "well, I definitely don't agree, but my respects to Angus McBride for all he did," and then it could've been left at that.

That would've been a whole lot better than the utterly disrespectful way this discussion was conducted in at its beginning, which is made that much worse by the simple fact that we're talking about a recently dead man who's still being mourned over.

As said, there's another time for this -- a later time. Leave it for then.

[gie]

Does anyone can post plates from the next 2 book?

Mongol Warlords by David Nicolle


Concord The Mongols

Concord The Medieval Knights

Concord El Cid

[Incongruous]

Ok I just ordered the two Russian med armies books, the first Italian med book, The Vikings, Leuthen, Zorndorf, Salamanca, Islamic Armies of the 7th-11th cen. And the last Byzy army book.

Any Others in this vien? All the ones on the seven years war armies look bad.

[Innocentius]

I just finished Landsknecht Soldier 1486 - 1560 (Warrior) by John Richards, illustrated by Gerry Embleton.

Big dissapointment. It hardly contained any useful information on Landsknechts, and what made them so special. It didn't try to explain anything, never drew any conclusions or even guessed, and never even attempted to put things in a bigger picture. No context, no explanations, no nothing. Had I not known a thing or two about the period from before, I wouldn't have understood much.

For example, take the chapter Camp life. You would expect this chapter to explain how the soldiers lived their daily lives (and ideally with some explanation as to why they lived like that, context etc), but no, it only contains a list of what officials and officers there were in the camps; how they were elected and what authority they had. Nothing on what the soldiers ate, how they slept, where the went to the "bathroom". :thumbsdown:

Also, the book seemed to fall back on works written during the period 1750 (yes, the 18th century) to 1950. Only a handful of the sources in the bibliography where from after 1950, and they seemed to be based on older sources as well when I looked them up.

Anyway, the book was kind of saved by Gembleton's excellent plates, some of which were real pieces of art. I wouldn't waste my money on it though, unless you have some sort of fetish for slashed Landsknecht clothing.

[Incongruous]

What?!
That was a very good and informative book, IMO.
Camp life saction was good, it helped me understand the idea of the Landsknecht groups. An excellent explanation of why they were used and their history as fighters.

You could probably gain an understanding of how they lived simply by looking at how any military formation lived at the time. It's not a relevant or urgent topic.

All in all I found it very good.

[Innocentius]

Can't say that I agree with you.

For example, it hardly mentioned how the Landsknechts actually fought. I think the Fähnleins are mentioned on quite a few occassions, but I can't recall ever reading anything on how big the average Fähnlein would be, nor how it would formate in battle. Judging from the book, warfare in the early 16th century was just forming big squares of pike-armed men, and then clashin them together, which is of course ridiculous.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I've only got a couple of Osprey books so far, both illustrated by Angus McBride, and I thought his plates were brilliant.

What I'm here to ask is if Osprey tend to do Christmas deals. I was thinking of buying a few for myself in the coming weeks.

Also, can anyone recommend any books on medieval Ghana, Nubia and Ethiopia, and also the transoxanian region for factions such as the the Khwarezmid Shahdom, Kara-Khitai etc. I've had a look through the site but can't really find anything on them.

:help:

[ShadesWolf]

Anybody got any new books recently?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I got 1 Today by Stephen Turnbull. Samurai, The World Of The Warrior. Very Good Book From Osprey/Stephen.

[Rhyfelwyr]

30% off Ancient/Medieval titles this month, still a few days left...

[edyzmedieval]

Anyone have the funny history of warfare? I'm really interested in buying it, but I want some feedback about it first.

[Incongruous]

Just got some men-at-arms and elites given to me today, seems to be one about Sassanian cavalryman somewhere in the mix there.

I must say that I am rather proud of my collection now.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Osprey are bringing out a Byzantine Cavalry 900-1204 book next August, along with one I've been waiting for for years - a Galloglaich warrior (or elite, not sure yet) title. Its just a tragedy Angus McBride won't be illustrating it, this would have been absolutely perfect for him.

Picked up the War Elephants and Scottish Renaissance Armies books recently - excellent artwork in both, Turner did a great job with the latter.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Hehehe, I have close to 500 Osprey Books. So I won't even try to list all the ones I have. Oh, and I do not like Angus McBride. The human faces he draws are peculiar and some of his illustrations of the Roman Legionaries are seemingly absurd:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=124&pictureid=1067

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=124&pictureid=1066

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/picture.php?albumid=124&pictureid=1062


Oh, and also, if any of you who do not have such large collection of Ospreys want to see some illustrations of RTW-time period soldiers, just follow the link on my signature. I believe there are more than 200 pictures on that thread. All of them are from my collection.

[Beirut]

Howdy,

I just bought my first Osprey book about a month ago; Campaign - 197, Amiens 1918. Still haven't read it yet, I'm slogging through other books for now, but I'm looking forward to it very much.

If anyone else has any WWI Osprey books I'd like to hear what you think of them. I'm looking to buy lots of Osprey WWI books over the summer. One I want but can't seem to find anywhere is the book on the Renault FT-17 tank.

I've read that some of you guys have hundreds of Osprey books. That's quite a library. (Must weigh a lot.) I figure I'll have a dozen or two by summer's end. Amazon's gonna love me.

[edyzmedieval]

Any good Ospreys on the medieval English armies of the 13th century, and also French and German?