1.02 or 1.03

[FasT]

Soon we must decide which we all gunna use?
It no use spilting the 40 or so online at 1 time...
so we must cast our votes on which we all gunna use.Or more ppl may leave,as where gunna find it even harder to find 3v3 battles etc.
Cast ur votes here;

1# 1.02
2# 1.03
3# Not tried it yet.
4# Unsure need more time.
5# What the hell i'll go with the community.
6# I like my guns and Ashi too much.Im afraid i'll lose too much http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Let the who community know!


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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
FastCub

I would go for 2

But since most go for 3...it means I got to wait :|

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Erado San]

As long as everybody is prepared to switch them from time to time we can play anything we like... If in the foyer the attitude is 'forget it, I'm on 1.03 and I'm not going to switch' then we're getting nowhere.

By the way, for those still calling this a patch... it isn't. It's just a mod. A good one though...

[RageMonsta]

Your right Erado..today i asked for a 103 game but there was a 102 being hosted.so Monsta just switched over to please the masses (3 others)..sadly I did not get chance to play it but any way.....easy done.

Tera your thinking is backward m8...no offence meant by this but if you like 103 and your waiting for the change wouldnt it be wise to be a leader instead of a follower.... if all those who wish to play friendly used 103 then the others would follow......

the simple solution is this--- choice...
use the swapper.

if you want 102 host a comp or join one.

if you want 103 play a friendly.

if you really want to play 102 in friendly (not sure why you would..although ashi power and high powered guns come to mind!) then just state it..'hey look my friendly game is 102'.

those who are trying to find excuses not to use 103 or even try it say stuff like -'but we have to tell people what version we are using' or 'newbies will have to be told to get it'

well players using 102 seem able to tell people '4 max' and how many times do we send newbies to download the 102 patch?

people are being a little over dramatic about this...

my thinking is that alot of people are just stuck with a 'system'....

now maybe i will get flamed here but why wasnt there this much fuss about the 102 patch?..is it a case of

'help my guns are not working as well'

or

'what do i do without super ashi'.....

the fact that 103 means 'move or you die' must scare a few of the weaker players....

Many 'vets' and skilled players from the past have lost or found the game harder against players of a medium standard because they remembered how much fun the old game was...kept the same style and the same units..refused to become Napoleonic....or a 'system' abuser....was it only me who notice the long time served players leaving on mass..the low numbers are nothing to do with how many are coming new.

its the old die hards who realised that the game they loved had gone.......but.....some of those old die hards would not stand for this..hence the 103.

So dont just get one type of stats...get em all..swap and change...

and people who claim they are leaiving just because of the stats are not the type of people we really want..are they?... unwilling to try something new..unwilling to support the game even throught the harder times.....let me say this last thing... your all gonna go nuts when Medi is out... and we will then need true fans such as Takiyama to help us fight through the bugs and mess i am sure we will have for a few months.

[Kas]

I agree with Monsta...use both, no need to stick to just 1 option.

I also must say...the "Terazawa-crusade" did some good also. Lots of players use the 8k max4 no super Ashi option.

I call this a "Tera-proof" battle.

Thanks all who made the game more fun to play.

Kas http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[RageMonsta]

just a thought....

the use of Iron...well the developement of a purely flat map was originally to stop the inbalance of camping etc...and a great tool for comp games....but

why so popular now?..simple..3 reasons

Guns kill more

Impossible (for most) to take a hill against a player who knows how use guns even with slight skill.

lack of real skill in moving troops in any direction but back and forth.

103 may mean- promotion of skill over system

then again 103 may fall to bits.but since its a stat..easy changed for the better!

[Cheetah]

I think that the general attitude is "let's play", people don't care much about which mod/stat. So, it is a kinda "advantage of the common" situation.

IMO the target group of the new mod is very small. It cannot be used for comp games and the big games (3v3, 4v4) are interesting enough (IMO very interesting, fun, fun, fun http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif )with the old patch. Thus, only those players are motivated to switch who play mainly 1v1 friendly games.

[RageMonsta]

the 'Ters proof' thing was ok..and adopted from advice given the 103 developers..somewhere in these threads.

6-8k is best with 102....4 max also helps..but it would only work if you made the honour limit also..4 max honour..after explaining all this you could have changed your stats 4 or 5 times lol.

[Orda Khan]

We now have a MOD that allows us to play in many different ways, don't forget 1.01 and the five custom options for those who know how to customise stats.
Everyone needs to lighten up. It is so easy to swap, surely more choice is a good thing.

I can confirm that multi games are just as much fun on 1.03, we had some great 3v2 battles last night.

My vote goes with having choice and having fun.............Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

I tried to make 1.03 games during the afternoon for 2 days...the 1.03 mod isn't yet as diffused...I advertise but those who create many names and play 10k comp ironboard all the time are not *rsed.

I change back to 1.02...then I change back to 1.03 and players willing to get it come...and so on and so forth.

I am happy that my "crusade" gave good fruits too...thanks to all those who supported the idea.

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Dionysus9]

I can speak only for myself, but my resistance to 1.03 (albeit minimal) and the great difference between accepting 1.02 and 1.03 is this:

1.02 was an semi-official "patch" that was distributed through the .COM site.

1.03 is an entirely-un-official troopstat file, not distributed through the .COM site.

If and when 1.03 makes it to : http://www.totalwar.com/community/downloads.htm

I think that it will receive a warmer reception from the more hesitant members of the community.

I, for one, realize now that my (albeit minimal) resistance to 1.03 is really quite silly (especially in light of the fact that so many respected players seem to have embraced it). Not to mention hte fact that EA has never really supported this game, and that even 1.02 was produced by the community.

It's not like EA's stamp of approval means squat to me-- but it might to others.

Just a thought.

I will start using 1.03 once in a while out of respect for those who have embraced it.

[RageMonsta]

Thats nice of you... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

i went to play ghost recon a while back and they had about 4 different rooms for each patch plus a demo on-line room..within each room they had different mods etc..... and these all produced by the game makers and fans...

Well it made me realise how weak the support for STW/MI/WE has been...what is it now 2/3 patches for both games?.....maybe they cannot reach their keyboards past all the awards?....or our cash?

Not to mention the web site...(official)..do you remember the map thing for the top 5 players....updated once and then dropped....how many times have they supported a tourney or campaign?..did those games ever reach the winners of the tourney they actually noticed?

What about the news page in your game.... one message in 3years is it...and we all must remember those special days of down server......

So thanx to EA and CA we have had what? (apart from the best rt strat game) 2/3 patches.1 made by fans.

Now remember this when you judge the work that the map/mod/web site etc makers do something....'dont look a gift horse in the mouth'....in other words if its free and its may add something..dont check its teeth to see if they are rotten.

BTW...2 4v4 103 battles......epics...dont miss the fun..you can always swap back.

[MasterYoda]

i would gladly go to 103 but i'm not computer literate i don't know how to download it i got the stat swapper and done the folder on the desktop but every thing is flickering and i will use 102 till i cant join or play any other games then i will change just for the record i don't use ashi http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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The Jedi Order to serve and protect

[Krasturak]

It is so easy to change between 1.02 and 1.03 that it makes no sense to make a commitment to one or the other.

[This message has been edited by Krasturak (edited 06-11-2002).]

[Kas]

It will make people puke when I agree with Monsta 2 times in 1 posting.

So I keep my mouth shut.

Those 2 4v4 1.03 games...refreshing indeed.

Kas http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Sjakihata]

Of course #2.

I hate being ashi rushed while muskets are shooting at me from a BIG hill !

To adminstrators:

Will it be possible to make a quick poll to decide?

[This message has been edited by Sjakihata Akechi (edited 06-11-2002).]

[Yas Terazawa]

All #2!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vanya]

GAH!

I downloaded the 1.03 thingie to test with my windows swapper.

Question: Can I play 1.03 stats in custom games in order to 'get the feel' of the changes?

I think I can upload this tool today to The Org (upload willing) for y'all to try...

[Puzz3D]

Vanya,

Yes. Changed stats work in custom games, and in all offline games. You can look at Mongol cavalry, and if they are 60 men, you have changed the stat. I appreciate you writing this visual basic stat swapper.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-11-2002).]

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa Vanya san,

Thanks for writing an exe. The php scripts/uploadtools still don't function, please e-mail the file to me tosainu@totalwar.org.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

[Orda Khan]

Yes Vanya you can use 1.03 in custom.
........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

[Wavesword]

How were the MHC changed to 60 again, could this feat be performed with BN or Kensai?

I think so Wave. (?)

There is a variable controlling unit size in TroopStats.

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[FasT]

Some nice discusions here guys http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Puzz3D]

Wavesword,

You can edit the Troopstats.txt file with Notepad and change the last number on the line which is the number of men in a unit. That parameter is only present if you have patched to v1.02. Don't go over 120, and keep in mind that at no time can you field a unit with more than 120 men or the game will crash.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[TosaInu]

http://www.totalwar.org/maps/stats/VanyasStatSwap.exe a 2.3 MB easy to use and install, Windows based, expandable StatSwapper with detailed setup instructions made by Vanya san.

[Puzz3D]

Dionysus9,
The major change in v102 was the cavalry which was a brilliant innovation by TosaInu. CA/DT looked at this adjustment and approved it. There was a deadline to finish v102, and, despite great effort by the beta team, it isn't balanced well enough for the full tactical richness of the game to be apparent in online play. Humans are excellent at finding slight imbalances by trial and error and then exploiting them to the max. Playing v102 is as though you are living in a 2 dimensional world when you could be living in a 3 dimensional world. The people in the 2 dimensional world can't even imagine what the 3 dimensional world is like. It's true that the imbalances in v102 are not as apparent in big 3v3 and 4v4 battles where the emphasis is on getting 2 on 1 attacks which overcome the imbalances.

The v103 is an evolution of v102 based on the online experience gained with the v102 over the last 6 months, and is more like what the original v102 beta team wanted to achieve for gameplay. The v102 is hampered by the fact that it had to work in the single player campaign which meant YA could not be weakened enough while the v103 is free from that restriction. We also have a much better understanding of the morale system and the upgrade system than we did back in Oct 2001. A lot of factors have to be balanced to achieve good gameplay. Longjohn, and those who helped him, did an outstanding job balancing the original STW, but it is basically an infantry game. The v103 brings guns down a bit which gives infantry more of a say than it has in v102. Ranged units are still important and deter early rushes. The slower combat means that maneuver is more important, and similar if not more important than it was in STW. You now have infantry, cavalry and ranged units in a pretty good 3 part balance with one another in v103. You also have the main rock, paper, scissors system of cav beat ranged, ranged beat spears, spears beat cav working properly, and another system of cav beat shock, shock beat spears and spears beat cav. In addition, every unit has a counter unit other than itself. Take a look at what the original WE/MI was like by playing a few v101 games online.

The Mongols are not balanced to the degree that the Sengoku units are. The v102 gives you strong Mongols and the v103 gives you much weaker ones. It's still possible to win with the Mongols, but considerably more difficult against a patient Japanese commander.

Khan7's mod deserves serious consideration for online play. It takes a different approach to unit strengths and weaknesses and is well thought out with lots of variable unit sizes. It offers a type of gameplay that is quite different from v103, and can easily be placed in one of the custom slots that the 10xswap.bat uses or used with it's own swapper.

I had already stopped playing 1v1 v102 games long before v103 was released. However, I haven't stopped playing big games with v102 if that's all that is available when I'm in the foyer. If v103 players move into their own chat room, that really will split the community, and the community is too small for that.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[Dionysus9]

Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:

Well it made me realise how weak the support for STW/MI/WE has been...what is it now 2/3 patches for both games?.....maybe they cannot reach their keyboards past all the awards?....or our cash?
[/QUOTE]

The support from EA has been friggin deplorable. I've been thinking about this issue for a long time (at least a year now), and I think it really comes down to this:

EA makes a lot of money off of their sports games. They are a "sports game" minded company. STW is a wargame, and I don't think they know what to do with it, or even give 2 squats about promoting wargames. In the end they probably (dispite all awards and high acclaim) think it was a mistake to "compete" with their successful line of sports games with a wargame.

I dont know, because they could have made a bundle more cash on STW if they had shown a little support.

As for me, I am done w/ buying EA games. They have made it clear that customer service means seperating me from my cash, and nothing more.

So SCREW YOU EA!

And while I'm screaming: a hearty BRAVO to those in this community who have striven for (and attained) the much sought after BALANCE that we have been seeking for so long. (no thanks to EA).

And finally, a thanks to Longjohn who's many discussions with us (on his own time I presume) were instrumental in our understanding of (particularly) morale.

Bravo!
(and screw EA)



[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 06-11-2002).]

[Wavesword]

Guys I have edited the troopstats line (before I got 1.03) without results. I was messing about with fantasy stats for 12ft tall kensai-ogres but when I loaded games I found that the most kensai would go up to was 2 per unit, and I think much altered BN were the same. Mongols also I couldn't seem to alter above 48. Perhaps I'm remembering all this wrong, or having 1.03 changes this in some way, I'll try again.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

When you alter unitsizes (offline) you should restart the game to see the changes.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

[Vanya]

In case some of you might not have noticed...

The display in the shoggy swapper is a tree view. Each 'stat' item is a node that can be expanded. Below it, you can find the description and the full path to the file.

If anybody has ideas for enhancements, please say so, and perhaps I can work them in in a future release. For example, I though of maybe including the list of files for each stat; but I decided it had no real benefit and could wait for another day.

Does Khan's STW 2 'mod' make use of the same two files as the others?

Maybe future versions can include a stat maker and viewer...

GAH! I'm getting ahead of myself! GAH!

[Wavesword]

Nope, nada, zero.

[Puzz3D]

Yes Khan's STW2 mod could go into a slot in the swapper as it uses the same two stat files.
MizuYuuki ~~~

[Lethal DRB]

Well guys, I havent played for 4 days WOW my record almost http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
but what r u guys playing the most patch 1.02 or 1.03???
just wondering otherwise i have to ask my bro to install 1.03

DRB

[Wavesword]

I've switched with STW2 without troubles, his file includes a similar stat swapping program btw.