Screenshot of the Nubian Spearmen

[biguth dickuth]

It has been posted at legiontotalwar.com
I thought it would be better to give you the link here (http://www.legiontotalwar.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4106) rather than repost the image.

What do you think?

I personally like their looks, although i must admit that i know next to nothing about the appearence of african warriors.

One thing i don't like is that their spear seems a bit too long (almost like a pike) and another has to do with those faraonic egyptians in the background http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[hundurinn]

They look nice. Cool haircut http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
I agree they spears seem to be rather long, didn't know nubians had phalanx troops. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Spino]

The 'historical accuracy or bust' crowd is going to have a field day with this one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Monk]

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, they kinda look like 90's rappers. - jmob

What he said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[biguth dickuth]

Quote[/b] (Spino @ June 03 2004,00:15)]The 'historical accuracy or bust' crowd is going to have a field day with this one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Naaahh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
They are Zulu-looking but that can't be too far from the truth.
I suppose that most tribal african warriors would be unarmoured and armed with a spear and a shield (or at least that's what i've seen in movies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ).

Those egyptians, on the other hand, will get what they deserve http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[DemonArchangel]

It's historically inaccurate as hell, but who cares, IT'S HAMMERTIME

[Kraxis]

Long spears might not be entirely inaccurate. The egyptians were known to use long spears when the Greeks bumbled about with their hoplites. It is not impossible that they gave the Nubians the same spears, and it is even more possible in the time of the Ptolomies (though I don't know how much they relied on Nubian manpower, if they did I suspect it would make sense to give them long spears).

I don't know much about Nubian warriors, so how would they actually look? 'Naked' and cowhide shields (wicker is good too) is what I would suspect from them, but not the haircut, or even the broard stature of them (Sudanese non-arabs are rather slim and much like the Ethiopians, unless you go to the far south).

[Rosacrux]

Oh my... the CA Frankenstein Workshop of the Freaks has provided us with another miracle... 19th century Zulu warriors with 1990s rapper haircuts, Joe Weider fans nevertheless, fight for Egypt and/or Carthago in the 3rd century BC...

yeah, cool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

[Nowake]

Those ar some ugly ppl. The aesthetics is horrendous. And you're right about the Zulu part.

[Ragss]

I am so glad I dont know anything about this era of history, this way I can just enjoy the fact that a few years ago graphics this good could be found in games containing a dozen ppl on the screen, now there will be 10 000 of these guys.

[hundurinn]

Are we sure this is isn't a unit from the old profile? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Oleander Ardens]

The pikes are correct, at least we know that Kushite warriors used them in the only battles against the imperial legions of Augustus.


I will check my library and than post more info...

[shingenmitch2]

Argh,

Interesting Zulu (?) warrior from the Boer Wars?
Not sure if that is truly supposed to be a Nubian or just some African tribal spearman mercenary unit (which might be fine it that is who they are)

The Nubian dress looked like a cross between Egyptian wear and Persian wear.

Scroll down on this page, about halfway down is a wall fresco titled "Worshiping gods & goddesses." The three figures on the right side of the fresco, with headbands and feather plumes are nubians. Notice that there is no MC Hammer hair and they wear full Egyptian-esque robes.

Nubia 1 (http://www.crystalinks.com/nubia.html)

[squippy]

The spears do not appear to rest on the ground either, looking at the most visible figure, so they might not be THAT long.

The hairstyles are wrong... but it MIGHT be a cap made out of rhino or elephant hair.

The face paint - anyones guess. The leapord skins - possible.

The shiled does look very Zulu, but similar patterns were in use on both the East and West coasts. But that double pattern stitching in the centre is quite distinctively Zulu I think.

However, we do have original Egyptian models of Nubian warriors, and they look like this:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Egypt/Assuan/NubianMuseum/img.php?pic=4

IIRC this came from Tut-Ankh-Amun's tomb, but I may be wrong.

[biguth dickuth]

Quote[/b] ]Argh,

Interesting Zulu (?) warrior from the Boer Wars?
Not sure if that is truly supposed to be a Nubian or just some African tribal spearman mercenary unit (which might be fine it that is who they are)

You are right about that. I wrote that they are nubians because that is what the guy who initially posted the screenshot wrote.
We could be wrong and they may indeed be a unit of tribal spearmen instead of nubians.



Quote[/b] ]The hairstyles are wrong... but it MIGHT be a cap made out of rhino or elephant hair.


If it is a cap, it reminds me of those caps that some of the "sea peoples" wore, as depicted by the egyptians.


Quote[/b] ]However, we do have original Egyptian models of Nubian warriors, and they look like this:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Egypt/Assuan/NubianMuseum/img.php?pic=4


These nubians of the statues are archers, right?

[Dead Moroz]

Another interesting pic (http://www.molon.de/galleries/Egypt/Assuan/NubianMuseum/img.php?pic=6) from that site shows that Nubians painted their hair in red (or brown) color. Or maybe it was just wig.

Also I found out that Nubia was famous as a land of expert and feared archers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif
This (http://www.dignubia.org/maps/timeline/bce-3200.htm) is small article (with pictures http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif ) about it.

[Rosacrux]

Well, well, well... most people here never heard of "Nubian" before, and taking incentive from a RTW screenshot, they dig all the kind of data and pics from da Web, to find out who those Nubians are and if the CA Workshop of Horrors has got even a mile close to them.

Frankly, and I am not kidding, this shows that computer games and especially those dealing with history, can offer a great deal of material for people to learn from (or because of).

Too bad kids who'll buy this game will think that the Iberian warrior can be decribed as Cornutus Iberiensis and the flaming pigs were used to win the day against elephants - not to mention that 3rd century BC Egypt was ruled by some guy resembling Rameses or Tuthmosis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ June 03 2004,08:19)]Another interesting pic (http://www.molon.de/galleries/Egypt/Assuan/NubianMuseum/img.php?pic=6) from that site shows that Nubians painted their hair in red (or brown) color. Or maybe it was just wig.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/masai/

It was probably ochre, one of the oldest personal body adornments and still in use by the Masai, as in the photo essay above.

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ June 03 2004,17:41)]Too bad kids who'll buy this game will think that the Iberian warrior can be decribed as Cornutus Iberiensis and the flaming pigs were used to win the day against elephants - not to mention that 3rd century BC Egypt was ruled by some guy resembling Rameses or Tuthmosis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Whata?? I thought they are still ruling Egypt. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif

[Oleander Ardens]

Here is some additional info:

Herodotus, wrinting in the 5th century BC describes the Kushite soldiers part of Xerxes army:


Quote[/b] ]The Ethiopians were clothed in panthers' and lions' skins, and carried long bows, not less than four cubits in length, made from the branches of palm trees, and on them they placed short arrows of cane; instead of iron, they tipped them with stone, which was made sharp, and of that sort on which they engrave seals. Besides this they have javelins, and at the tip was an antelope horn, made sharp like a lance; they also had knotted clubs. When they were going into battle they smeared one half of their body with chalk, and the other half with red ocre:



From Strabos account:


Quote[/b] ]...Petronius attacked and compelled them to fight. They soon fled, being badly commanded, and badly armed; for they carried large shields made of raw hides, and hatchets for defensive weapons; some, however, had pikes, and others swords....

Hope it helped

OA

[Barkhorn1x]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ June 03 2004,08:41)]CA Workshop of Horrors
Ha - good one.

Barkhorn.

[Oleander Ardens]

Here is a presumed Kushite army-list:

http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_22_figure_1.htm

If CA is the Workshop of Horror I will live with horror for a long time to come http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ah_dut]

Ah well the CA frankinstein workshop is working OT again I see

[Spino]

Beyond their ahistorical depiction I can only assume that Nubian Spearmen will harken us back to the days of Medieval Total War and assume their previously assigned role as the lowest level, 'arrow' fodder spearmen unit Egypt can build?

[bighairyman]

i like the Nubian Spearmen from MTW better. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Spino @ June 02 2004,16:15)]The 'historical accuracy or bust' crowd is going to have a field day with this one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
You can bet on that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif



WTF??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsdown.gif

As someone suggested at TWC, should their marching song be: "Hammer time... ...Can't touch this..." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif



Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ June 03 2004,01:59)]Oh my... the CA Frankenstein Workshop of the Freaks has provided us with another miracle... 19th century Zulu warriors with 1990s rapper haircuts, Joe Weider fans nevertheless, fight for Egypt and/or Carthago in the 3rd century BC...

CA's Frankenstein Workshop of the Freaks is the right phrase... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sick.gif



Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ June 03 2004,08:41)]Too bad kids who'll buy this game will think that the Iberian warrior can be decribed as Cornutus Iberiensis and the flaming pigs were used to win the day against elephants - not to mention that 3rd century BC Egypt was ruled by some guy resembling Rameses or Tuthmosis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Couldn't have said it better... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif


Maybe CA should give us the final touch and "improve" it with this hair... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-afro.gif ...and some platform shoes? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

But this is surelly an ancient unit... ...it MUST be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sweatdrop.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[Dead Moroz]

The haircut of that Nubians on pic reminds me of haircuts (or helmet) of Philistines.

http://historic.ru/lostcivil/books/enchv1/pic/st65_01.gif http://www.recoveredscience.com/Philistinwarrior.gif

http://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1133_face.jpghttp://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1134_face.jpghttp://www.dbaol.com/images/faces/1135_face.jpg

Maybe CA confused something? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Ragss]

Where were the philstines located?

[hundurinn]

I may be entirely incorrect but weren't they close to the where the Israel stat is now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

They should be loose warbands of spearmen.But the Nubians were revered for their archery,they were exceptionally good archers.

Squippy provides an accurate depiction of nubians.

[biguth dickuth]

It is presumed by some historians and archaelogists that the Philistines were the (or the descedants of the) Peleset, one of the "sea peoples" as accounted by the egyptians.

And yes, the Philistines (or Peleset) were inhabitants of Palestine.
In fact, (and let's hope that my memory hasn't terribly betrayed me on this) they are the ones who gave Palestine it's name

You're right, the Nubians' (or whatever they are) haircut looks a lot like those phlistinian caps.

[RisingSun]

Apparently, it looks like some of the blokes down at the TWC aren't very intelligent...

Stop- Hammer time

*cries*

[PSYCHO]

Quote[/b] (biguth dickuth @ June 04 2004,17:42)]And yes, the Philistines (or Peleset) were inhabitants of Palestine.
In fact, (and let's hope that my memory hasn't terribly betrayed me on this) they are the ones who gave Palestine it's name - biguth dickuth

Yup, in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, the Romans fought three bloody wars with the Jews who refuse to surrender their liberty. The wars were costly to the Romans who sought to make an example of them. They sought to completely destroy Jewish national / religious identity.

They sacked the Jewish capital Jerusalem, killed or enslaved all it's inhabitants and rebuilt a Roman city upon its ruins. Emperor Hadrian named it ‘Aelia Capitolina’, Aelia after his own family name, and Capitolina after Jupiter Capitolinus. Similarly the Jewish temple (the heart of Jewish society / culture) was destroyed and a temple to Jupiter Capitolinus built on top of the site (now site of the Dome of the Rock). Jews were forbidden to even enter Jerusalem / Aelia Capitolina except once a year (Passover?) and in 135 AD the Romans sought to remove forever any semblance of the Jewish state, renaming the whole area ‘Provincia Syria Palaestina’, a Latin version of the Greek term ‘Philistine’.

The name was intended as an insult. The Philistines were a proto-Greeco peoples who had invaded from the sea and fought unsuccessfully with the Jews a millennia previously.
‘Provincia Syria Palaestina’ was later shortened to just Palaestina, from which the modern anglicised "Palestine" is derived.

The subsequent Byzantine and Islamic empires also had no desire to see a rebuilding of the Jewish national identity under their rule, so the non-descript anthropologically ambiguous term 'Palestine' stuck. It's interesting that the modern Arab inhabitants of Palestine, formerly part of the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian nations, have adopted the name in order to claim a heritage that they allege somehow predates that of the Jews.



my2bob

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Oleander Ardens @ June 03 2004,11:20)]Here is some additional info:

Herodotus, wrinting in the 5th century BC describes the Kushite soldiers part of Xerxes army:


Quote[/b] ]The Ethiopians were clothed in panthers' and lions' skins, and carried long bows, not less than four cubits in length, made from the branches of palm trees, and on them they placed short arrows of cane; instead of iron, they tipped them with stone, which was made sharp, and of that sort on which they engrave seals. Besides this they have javelins, and at the tip was an antelope horn, made sharp like a lance; they also had knotted clubs. When they were going into battle they smeared one half of their body with chalk, and the other half with red ocre:



From Strabos account:


Quote[/b] ]...Petronius attacked and compelled them to fight. They soon fled, being badly commanded, and badly armed; for they carried large shields made of raw hides, and hatchets for defensive weapons; some, however, had pikes, and others swords....

Hope it helped

OA
Hmm... So spearmen with hideshields are not that wrong. The shape of the shields I suppose would be more like Egyptian shields, and the look of them we have seen in the other posts.

All in all a 2-3 from me (the our little rating thread).

[Nowake]

Still, the units aspect is too pitoresque. I'll feel like in the colonial wars.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ June 10 2004,09:12)]Still, the units aspect is too pitoresque. I'll feel like in the colonial wars.
How about we do a 'Zulu' mod with these guys? All we need is Michael Cain and a few British Redcoats and we're sorted http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Actually I don't mind this unit, it looks good and I'd rather have these guys in an Egyptian army than some of the other Egyptians units we have seen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Oleander Ardens]

Well for the reasons listened above I don`t think it is a bad unit, only the hair bothers me.
Agreed with the shape of the shield Hak, it should fit them better...

[Kraxis]

Hak hasn't commented in this thread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The hair... Less important to me copared to the shields. A nice 'doorway' shield would be perfect. Granted it is the way the older shields looked, but I haven't heard or read about other shields being used in this period (thus I have to make do with the next best thing).

[Oleander Ardens]

Ups http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif

Fill in Kraxis for Hak and it is allright http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif. By the way it is really the shield which gives him this "Zulu-type" appearence.

A large doorway shield would indeed help to mmake him look more Kushitelike...

[Kraxis]

If they just altered the shields a little bit they could be called Nubian Thureophoroi. Just slim it a bit at the middle and let it be squared off at the top and bottom... And of wood of course.

[ah_dut]

Looks alright but MOD THAT SHIELD *calms himself* we can do fantasy:total war with all these creations seriously http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif