The Pope

[Drake]

Playing as Italians, all going well, kicking HRE away, blah blah Pope attacks me. There was no warning, no stop attacking or else sign, just attacked me. Now, here's the bit I love.

The year after he attacked me I sent a force to regain my territory and relieve the besieged garrison, this is all happening in Tuscany by the way. Then the Pope told me to STOP ATACKING HIM Ermmmm, hold on a sec, didn't you attack me first? Therefore surely my counterattack is self defense? What does he expect you to do, roll up and give him everything? So now I have crushed him, several times actually, but anyone any idea why this insanity happens or even better, how to stop it?

[Kommodus]

Yeah, the pope in this game is a big jerk, and he does pretty much what he pleases. He considers any action in which you command the attacking army or fleet to be an attack - even if you are just trying to lift a siege from your own castle In fact, I'm surprised he didn't excommunicate you without warning for your counterattack. Anyway, I would recommend the following things:

1. If you aren't at war with the pope but share a border, keep large armies on his borders. This may help to deter him from attacking you.

2. If the pope attacks anyway, try to restrict yourself to defensive actions. If you have good armies with which to defend against him, this should result in him breaking his own armies against you, until he only has a few troops left that no longer pose a threat.

3. If you have to eliminate the pope (i.e. you get excommunicated), don't try to hold Rome or the Papal States. Once the pope is eliminated, burn them to the ground and leave, so that large rebellions appear there. When the pope reappears (and he always does), the rebels will drain some of his forces, and you will not automatically be at war with him. Then go back to step 2.

4. I don't do this much, but other people often use assassins to take care of the pope when they get excommunicated. This is probably more useful if you're not at war with the pope, but are at war with other Catholic factions.

Hope that helps.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Drake @ June 03 2004,08:38)]What does he expect you to do, roll up and give him everything?

Yeah, that's about the size of it.

This sort of thing is why I started playing Muslims. It is also the reason I never stopped.

I'd recommend attacking the Pope and killing off all his troops except the ones able to flee to the fort. Then leave the province. You're left with a much-weakened Pope who won't come back with an enormous army when he re-appears.

The downside of that is, you're excommunicated.

[Sun Tzui]

Yep

Thats why i love mods that let me play the POPE

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[ah_dut]

muhahaha that's why i love syrian assasains Doug-thompson dead popes are unable to excom you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[ah_dut]

Kill the pope wit a syrian assasain and the problem dissapears, magic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Josephus V]

This is why I've stuck with the Viking campaign so far. Only been playing about a month but I've read a lot of posts on this site. All this Pope stuff has made me stay away from the European side so far.

[ah_dut]

Kill the pope and the problem dissapears http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Xiphias]

Except that now you've got a new problem. He will re-emerge with more and more troops until you can't beat him.

The pope is just a little annoyance most of the time.

[Doug-Thompson]

The Pope doesn't re-emerge if you assassinate him. They just elect a new Pope.

Did I mention that Syrian Assassins are another good thing about playing Muslims? Turks get Syria right off the bat. Egyptians get the province when they blitz the Turks. Almohads have to work a little harder, but Almohad Urban Militia and desert archers cut a swath through early Egyptian armies. Almos can get to Syria soon enough.

[Accounting Troll]

Once you start producing grand inquisitors, put the pope on trial for heresy whenever he dares to excommunicate you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

If I'm playing conquest, I reduce the Papacy to a single poverty-stricken province surrounded by large armies and wait until I've destroyed everybody else before I finish off the Papacy.

[katar]

i just ignore the lad for the most part, if i get excommunicated and a few crusades come my way i just use them as live firing exercises for my catapults (builds up the stats real quick). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif


Quote[/b] ]I'd recommend attacking the Pope and killing off all his troops except the ones able to flee to the fort. Then leave the province. You're left with a much-weakened Pope who won't come back with an enormous army when he re-appears.

nice one Doug, i`ll have to give that one a try sometime. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Ghostmonkey]

I too stopped playing Catholic factions because of the pope and his excommunications. When I did play as a European nation I generally just ignored the guy.

[katank]

well, even a successful defense against his attack can cause you to be excommed

thus, i often exterminate him with extreme prejudice and sack Rome and then beat him into a castle in papal states to starve.

I don't kill him and often as the second king takes the throne, I'm recommed and my crusade markers all ready to go.

I conquer the crusader states and Syria by serial crusades and collect my GA points.

from this point on, whenever the bugger even dares to lift one finger at me, I send in hordes of my Syrain boys to fix him up a little.

Castilian grand inqs are also awesome.

burn, baby, burn http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Copperhead]

In M:TW the Pope behaves like a petulant child, if he doesn't get his way or you annoy him he does something to try and get you into a lot of trouble i.e. telling catholics to crusade against you.

[deathdoom56]

Dont worry all you have to do is conquer the pope.

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]Dont worry all you have to do is conquer the pope.
- bad, bad move. While i have played games where the pope never re-emerged (usually when i snuffed him mid/late game), he can, and will, re-emerge even in 200% loyalty provs, leading an uber army. (at least with VI, re-emergences in vanilla MTW were rather funny, sometimes crack armies of knights, sometimes 3 stacks of mangonels). Conquering the papacy is always a true accident when I play, i much prefer to keep him bottled up in a poor province.

[Leo]

I always send lots of spys to the pope to decimate his army by mass rebellions. When I'm allied to him I can even get some influence by breaking the sieges.

[Ragss]

In my Italian expert medmod campaign I mistakingly took him out VERY early on. about 15 turns later, when nobody but HRE had an significant army, the pope emerges with 3000 some odd troops, including about 500 knights templar. I managed, through various means, to widdle him down to an army of 94 (hahahaha) and he is held up in the province just north of sicily. I plan to keep him there until im done with the rest of the map. I also lift his rebel seiges, anything to keep the papists from being defeated.



Then the danes invade, I abandon a province, take it back the next year and the pope is freaking out cause im attacking the danes. What an ass.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Copperhead @ June 05 2004,19:26)]In M:TW the Pope behaves like a petulant child, if he doesn't get his way or you annoy him he does something to try and get you into a lot of trouble i.e. telling catholics to crusade against you.
That may the be the best description of the Pope's behavior I've ever heard.

[katank]

he's just annoying and you are dying to wipe him out but yet can't afford to do so as his remergences with mucho high tech units is really scary.

I personally like to defeat his army in the field and siege him in papal states until he's almost dead and then leave, ally with him, and make sure the rebels don't kill them but that he stays real weak.