Lances, spears and cavalry..oh my!!!

[ni8shadow]

Just wanna say sup to the forum as i am a ....NEWBIE i just bought the Battle Collection the other day and i must say WHAT A GAME i dont know why i waited so long to get it but better late than never....anywayz back to the topic...Cavalry weapons...early in history cavalry carried spears to stab down at the enemy...Alexander III used his famous Companions and Thessalian Cav. this way to great effect...then after a while lances came in during the Mid. ages....my question is...which do you think is more effective? i mean lances during a charge are crazy but after...do you use the lance to stab down? the handle on a lance is towards the back making it less versatile than the spear. what do you guys think?

[TonkaToys]

Welcome to the Org ni8shadow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


There are many historical experts here who will be better placed to answer your question, but didn't lances become pointless (pun intended http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) after the initial charge?

Weren't they discarded in favour of another weapon as soon as they broke?

I vaguely remember that lancers in later eras used to carry lances which were lighter and possibly more spearlike - and you would expect them to have learnt from history.

[cutepuppy]

After the initial charge, lances were thrown away and replaced by hand weapons, such as swords, axes or maces. The purpose of the lance was just to break the ennemy's ranks. Sometime heavy cavalry was even able to break through all ranks. Then they just turned and attacked the ennemy in the back, while another wave attacked them in front.
So the way you see cavalry handle lances in MTW (as stabbing weapons) is not very accurate (maybe even a bit ridiculous), but I guess it was too difficult to implement both a hand weapon and a lance for melee.

Oh... and welcome to the forum http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[English assassin]

I'm no expert on horsemanship, but I do know that all the way up to napoleonic times some cavalry units used lances/spears, and some swords.

I guess this means that there isn't a better weapon as such and it all depends. If the tactical use of your cavalry is to charge infantry in close order I guess a spear/lance is best. If its to fight other cavalry, skirmish or chase down routers, I guess a sword is best.

Does anyone know whether one is easier to use than the other, because that would make a big difference (one of the reasons crossbows took off all over Europe but longbows didn't for instance)

[ah_dut]

The longbow takes years and years of training Assasain. The english had to institute an extensive system replacing all sports with archery to get their corps of archers. The crossbow on the other hand can be taught in a day. So the lazier feudal powers chose the crossbow. I'm also told that the French didn't give the longbow to their peasants in case they revolted. They would've got slaughtered like at crecy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
By the way the lance is the better weapon. Most cav could just chuck the lance away and use the sword in h2h combat,

Welcome to the org ni8shadow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Woreczko]

I would say that for h2h spear (2 - 2.5m) is the best weapon - it`s light and short enough to maneuver with it and has more reach than hand weapon. The problem is that you can`t carry both lance and spear. IMHO in modern era western armies used sword armed cavalry because they lacked men trained in the use of spear from the horseback.

As for hand weapons, I guess the best was a sabre. It`s more handy than a sword and better at slashing. On horseback it`s really difficult to stab because you may easily loose your weapon, and you can`t lean forward/back as you do in foot combat with a stabbing weapon.

Anyway one shouldn`t overestimate the meaning of weapons, because the horse and his combat abilities were at least as important as a raider`s.

[71-hour Ahmed]

The original use of spears (held overhead) was needed as stirrups were not invented. Once stirrups were invented the lance underarm could be used without the blow unhorsing the rider, and so it replaced spears.

[Woreczko]

Well, lance was a weapon of latin world. Eastern Europe and muslim world usually remained loyal to spear-like weapons and with a good effect. Lance&sword cavalry exceled in charging, while spear armed one was better in a melee (this is of course big simplification).