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Kommodus
06-04-2004, 22:17
In my recent campaign as the English in Early/Expert, I gained an alliance with the French immediately. (I know a lot of people like to destroy France right away, but I chose a different route.) Instead, I unified the British Isles and drove back the Almohads, who were overrunning Spain. Almost every nation on the map sent their emissaries to London to request alliances, which I happily granted. All was well.

However, the French were beating the Germans and were getting alarmingly large and powerful. I knew war with them was inevitable, so when I thought the time was right, I broke the alliance with a strong surprise attack, winning three provinces immediately. However, every last nation that was allied with both me and the French decided to stay allied with France, breaking their alliances with England Perhaps they did this because I had betrayed my alliance, and they saw that an alliance with my treacherous nation wasn't worth much?

The war with France was much tougher than expected, but I was victorious, and ultimately conquered France and what remained of Germany, plus Scandinavia. In the brief years of peace that followed, my alliances were restored with most of my old allies, while I built up my armies and infrastructure. However, the Egyptian Sultanate was gaining the upper hand in its war with the Byzantines, and eventually even Constantinople fell. I was allied with Egypt at the time, but like France, they were getting too powerful. I sent a crusade to Antioch while other armies smashed into Egypt's lands in North Africa and Asia Minor.

Once again, every former ally of mine sided with the Egyptians My withering attack on Egypt continued, and soon their empire was divided and thrown into civil war. However, my relationships with the remaining nations of Europe were irreparably damaged, and within a few years, I was at war with every remaining nation except the Byzantines and the Pope.

While my navy struggled against the Italian armada, my armies held back the tide of Hungarians, Polish, and Italian forces, while the armies I had sent to Egypt, now stranded, managed to hold their own and while awaiting reinforcements. It took a few decades, but I have now reduced the Italians to a few provinces, blitzed through Poland, destroyed most of Hungary's forces, and even expanded my conquests in the east. However, the cost has been high.

Do the AI-controlled nations hold it against you if you break your alliances with other nations? Are there any other consequences for such perfidious actions? I admit that I have acted as a ruthless emperor in this campaign.

ah_dut
06-04-2004, 22:45
You allied with the French? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif you kill them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif that's what they're for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ichi
06-04-2004, 23:51
Your King loses Influence by breaking alliances.

Simply find a faction that is at war with your intended victim/target, send an emissary to them asking for an alliance. When they accept, the game will tell you that two of your allies are at war and you must choose one. Pick the ones you don't intend on attacking, and you can avoid losing Influence.

If you are large the other factions will ally with you enemy - the game is set up that way to oppose you in your quest for dominance.

ichi

alman9898
06-05-2004, 04:20
In me and my friend's game as the spanish we were at war with about five factions. only our good allies the sicilians (former empire reduced to Tripoli and Palestine, but HUGE navy..) we backstabbed anyone at anytime we felt like it. And alot of times people sided with us, other times they sided with the enemy.

bottom line is: I always backstab. Who cares? If they want war, come and get it.

Drake
06-06-2004, 23:30
I think, though dont quote this, if you possess the largest military/income/happiest population/technogical advances, then it has an effect on this. If you break an alliance but have the largest military, people will tend to remain allied to you cause they fear you may squash them but having said that seen it work the other way, that they ignore your might and disown you anyway. Requires research that one.

nick_maxell
06-07-2004, 00:31
Quote[/b] (Drake @ June 06 2004,17:30)]I think, though dont quote this, if you possess the largest military/income/happiest population/technogical advances, then it has an effect on this. If you break an alliance but have the largest military, people will tend to remain allied to you cause they fear you may squash them but having said that seen it work the other way, that they ignore your might and disown you anyway. Requires research that one.
just an observation - but I see a trend that allies which don t share a border seem to stay your allies if they are small. The bigger and the more border they are more likely to quit an alliance - have to check about the influence part but mine is usually high when I saw it (eg I am spanish and no border with turks other than naval - they are huge but allies for more than 100 yrs whereas the french medium with borders try to backstab me every once in a while)

I haven t seen a thread around here about AI cooperation regarding alliances and when they break and why (other than the player becoming a superpower) - I did a test game once as the danish and hedgehogged myself in scandinavia - was small, no influence but big army and got attacked anyhow and the AI alliances just didn t make sense at all (eg the french at war with england backstabbed the HRE opening a 2 front war they lost as Aragon was happily breaking the alliance and stabbed the french in the back) - if seen it in the mideast too that the turks go on a rampage and get their behind handed when they are in no shape to start a war - I guess the risk calculation of the AI is just off or randomly moronic (have to check if kings have chinless wonder vice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

ehhm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

nick

katank
06-07-2004, 22:52
they should have strategically drunk vices.

when I have biggest income, army, tech, etc. the AI always gets jealous and wants a piece.

naturally, I good naturedly socked it to them.

it's damn impossible to keep alliances unless you are like the AI, stupid, and weak.

exploit your allies all you can and then side with another and crush them.

using emissary technique as described by ichi is best. I like influence pushing with careful manipulation of alliances so I don't break them, crusades, and jihads.

this means super high influence king and very high stat princes as a result.

Blodrast
06-07-2004, 23:01
I can't make much sense of the AI's choices of making and breaking alliances either.
Playing French I got attacked without any kind of provocation by English, HRE, Italians, Aragonese and Egpytians; well, ok, gathering troops in some of my provinces can admittedly be regarded as a provocation by the AI. The point is that my King had a decent (4, 5) influence at that time, which got even higher, to 6 or 7 crowns; yet despite continuously asking all of them for ceasefire treaties for over 30 years (and yes, i did it each and every single year), not even once did any of them accept.
Obviously I was not a superpower, far from it, I didn't have many provinces...and I never once had broken an alliance - heck, I never HAD one...

I also seem to remember having read that if you lose the first battle in a war the other AI nations will choose the winner over you.

Blodrast

Ludens
06-09-2004, 17:16
Quote[/b] (Blodrast @ June 08 2004,00:01)]I also seem to remember having read that if you lose the first battle in a war the other AI nations will choose the winner over you.
It's in Froggy's beginners guide. However, from the campaigns I've played so far (not very many though), I say it doesn't matter. Whenever I attack someone, I always lose many allies independent of who wins, or of the influence of my or my enemies monarch.
I once attacked the remains of the Turkish with an overwhelming army. My Sultan had 4/5 influence, the Turkish 2/3. The Turks were utterly crushed beneath my steel capped sandal (if I recall it correctly, I killed every member of their royal line in that particular battle). After the battle 2 of my allies renounced their alliance.
And no, I wasn't a superpower. I just possesed the combined lands of the Turkish and the Egyptians, a lot of border and an lightly equiped army.

I just think that the diplomatical AI is a moron. My hopes rest on Rome.

ah_dut
06-09-2004, 17:24
I second luden's complaint a moronic diplomacy AI http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif