Long Term Mercenaries [Archive]

The Blind King of Bohemia

06-04-2004, 23:32

If you can get Varangian guards get them. Longbowmen always. Some horse archers can be devastating. Mamluk and Mongol clear examples of. Almohad Urban militia and order foot are good stable infantry.

In the later periods there are many. Swiss armoured Pikemen, Gothic sergeants and spanish lancers are clear examples of good, elite shock troops which can help your armies out if they need it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

ichi

06-05-2004, 00:19

I got to agree with BKB, get those VG.

If your faction is weak on cav archers (like say, the English) then get Faris, Szeks, Mamluks, Byz Cav, Boyars, even Turcopoles and Turcoman HA, even vanilla HA.

In very large battles, put the cav archers in the first wave and set them up very far forward - shoot up some heavy cav or just wear 'em out chasing your cav archers. When they out of ammo, replace with fighters. The AI rarely compensates for the depletion and this can really affect the outcome of the initial fight.

OK, back on topic - get the guys your faction can't get - if you are a Muslim or Russian pick up good Catholic heavy inf, Danes get strong cav.

I also like to pick up Longbows

ichi

Ragss

06-06-2004, 08:31

I never get mercs anymore...no matter how many inns or allies I have, after about 1150 my inns run dry. In medmod, I have never seen a single mercenary, ever. And yes, I'm building the inns in provs with the Mercenary resource.

Aaanyways. Early on I always pick up all the heavy spearmen I can, if I dint have anything but vanillas. This is Armoured spears, rus, italian light, saracen...And if you are byz, or someone else without pikes or halberdeirs, get all the anti horse inf you can get.

solypsist

06-06-2004, 09:43

I tend to hold on the the Billmen when I'm not playing the English faction.

scooter_the_shooter

06-06-2004, 13:35

me if things are going really good i get every merc i can get my greedy hands on but i especially like billmen longbowes and vg http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Defensor Pacis

06-06-2004, 17:56

Ragss, one way to stop inns running dry is not to have them in the same provinces as border forts, which seem to make it less likely that mercenaries will turn up. By putting one or more spies in the province, you can still catch enemy assassins, and your spies will increase in valour this way too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

ah_dut

06-06-2004, 22:09

I only think long term mercs are necessary to shore up weaknesses in your faction

Colovion

06-06-2004, 22:19

I used Mercs all through my Byz campaign. I ended up disbanding a lot of them but mercs probably made up about 1/4 of my entire army.

katank

06-06-2004, 23:02

I like to keep the highest power ones around not available to my faction.

hiring a unit of druzhina (FFK) or kawarzies or other heavy cav merc can be devastating to opponents about 2-3 years into early.

these I may end up keeping although I will likely just suicide them when they are single digits.

nightcrawlerblue

06-06-2004, 23:21

I rarely use my mercs long term. I love having an enemy think he has twice as many troops as me and then I buy every merc in the province. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

katank

06-06-2004, 23:33

true.

I rarely keep mercs long terms also except for maybe 3 or 4 high power units that are absolutely unattainable yet must haves.

most of the use for mercs is still in very early game combat where they can really tip the balance of power.

nick_maxell

06-07-2004, 00:47

Quote[/b] (Defensor Pacis @ June 06 2004,11:56)]Ragss, one way to stop inns running dry is not to have them in the same provinces as border forts, which seem to make it less likely that mercenaries will turn up. By putting one or more spies in the province, you can still catch enemy assassins, and your spies will increase in valour this way too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif
I seem to remember that it is the castle level, not borderforts affecting merc avaiability and that not hiring some will make them go away as will no conflict nearby.

As for keeping and which ones - I think katank posted about the Flanders merc rush from normany/wessex when playin english - that works wonders As other stated - get what you cant build and have use for (eg camels if christian and going south) and you can get advanced units earlier sometimes giving you the "edge". - for keeping them longtime watch the loyalty - that nearly always low and you cant give titles/princesses (in 1.1MTW)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

nick

Kristaps

06-07-2004, 01:41

Quote[/b] (Big King Sanctaphrax @ June 04 2004,17:30)]Mercenary only-I think it's Almughavars, Alan Merc Cav, and Turcopoles. They're all quite rare though, especially the former.

Hendrix Fan, VoodooChild? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Turcopoles are not merc-only. Catholic factions can build those in Crusader provinces (Palestine, Antioch, Edessa, Tripoli). Antioch even gives +1 to the valor of Turcopoles built there.

katank

06-07-2004, 02:26

turcopoles are buildable in holy lands but only in tripoli, antioch, edessa, and Syria not palestine.

they get valor bonus in antioch and the germans get a discount for them.

@nick, I favor all forms of merc rushing although if Brits, you don't need mercs to wipe out the French.

you starting troops are enough for the task with bribed longbows as reinforcements if something really goes funky.

the Flanders inn strategy is more useful as the French for knocking out the Brits.

you want them eliminated so they don't threaten your rear while you face HRE across the maignot line and possibly get threatend by the iberian devils from the south.

at the same time, you want to avoid excomm so you need to attack with overwhelming force across the borders to destroy them very fast and this is only doable with mercs that early in the game.

gaijinalways

06-07-2004, 04:08

I use mercs, but often not long term as the support costs can be murderous. I often use them until they die ro become too small to be worthwhile (sometimes small groups of cavs are good distraction units, though also they that can rout archers, even xbowman if they are heavy cavs depending on the valor of both). I love general and merc only armies

As to units that may survive longer, missile units (since they may not get shot at or even approached for melee in bigger battles) and some infantry if they avoid getting heavily shot up.

Somebody Else

06-07-2004, 07:12

As I'm playing a MedMod campaign in high period as the Burgundians (Outremer) I hire every archer type of mercenary I can get my hand on (except vanilla archers) as I can only build X-bows and turcopoles, which aren't the greatest units at shooting up hordes of lightly armoured Muslim troops.

Drake

06-07-2004, 14:19

It seems to me that certain provinces have a better mercenary turnover then others, for example Constantinople, Sicily, Tripoli, Venice and Castile are major trade and travel centres so always seem to have some merc presense in them while others like Cyrencia and Muscovy have none cause of their obsure locations and lack of trade resources. My evidence for this is Ile De France, which is a hole for the most part but yet always has mercenaries on offer as few as they may be, possibly cause there's the option to build trading buildings here. Soliders are as much a commodity as any other good.

For me, mercs come into their best usage early on in the game, and I mean early, as soon as the start date even. In the beginning you can pick up some extremely good units, for example on a Turkish campaign 4 years in, having built an Inn right away I was able to hire guys like Italian Infantry and Faris. This gave me a huge advantage over the Byzantines and Egyptians that allowed me to crush them when backed up with basic units like Urban Militia and horse archers. The cost is paid for by the pillage rewards as both factions have rich areas like Tripoli, Egypt and Constantinople which when pillaged reap good rewards. When the wars are done you simply disband the mercs who are probably exhausted by now and replace with your own troops.

SwordsMaster

06-07-2004, 14:25

get Druzhynas ASAP, and dismount tem in every battle. You get those nice FFK that can chop pretty much everything even in later eras. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

ah_dut

06-07-2004, 22:28

Volhynia or whatever it's called has a lot of mercs, I like merc longbows gothics and vikings a lot

katank

06-07-2004, 22:29

they make 60 men FFKs and are likely the most overpowered merc unit.

pinning jedi gens with spears and flanking/rear attack with those FFK and soon the enemy jedi becomes minced meat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

anyone like to use them mounted? they actually have AP and decent stats considering they are 60 men cav.

bighairyman

06-08-2004, 02:52

get Almughavars when you see them, in my recent game, i had a unit of them and they helped me out at more than 5 battles, their javelin and h2h attacks are awesome. the one i have now have 7 valor http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

Ragss

06-08-2004, 04:57

I want to mod the Almughavars to me non-merc for the Argonese, I love using those guys in custom battles.

Imperial Buffoon

06-08-2004, 18:10

Quote[/b] (katank @ June 07 2004,16:29)]anyone like to use them mounted? they actually have AP and decent stats considering they are 60 men cav.
I like to use them mounted to get them some valour if there's not a lot of heavy cavalry opposition (in which case FFK is the reason why they're there). But being mercs so not replenishable and with a not-so-great charge, they're better used for flanking armoured troops in early (think AUM)

Goofball

06-08-2004, 22:00

Three words:

Longbows, Longbows, Longbows...

Ragss

06-08-2004, 23:16

Quote[/b] (katank @ June 07 2004,16:29)]they make 60 men FFKs and are likely the most overpowered merc unit.

pinning jedi gens with spears and flanking/rear attack with those FFK and soon the enemy jedi becomes minced meat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

anyone like to use them mounted? they actually have AP and decent stats considering they are 60 men cav.
I use them mounted whenever possible, although they arent very good there is just something cool about 60 horsemen with axes haha.

katank

06-09-2004, 01:07

really? you always use em mounted? I always use them dismounted as foot knights seem too good to pass up.

60 men cav would be interesting.

do you use them as pure flanker/rear attack?

do they actually seemt o rout the enemy faster than 40 cav?

maybe I'll give them a try when mounted.

Medieval Assassin

06-09-2004, 02:00

I had some of them last Campain, AP... Thats pretty sweet, they seem to do really good, and then do really good flanking, mine took on about 180 boyors... And won, but with heavy losses, Gold armour and weapons, and higher valour would make them insane. Only 3 left the battle. But they faught to the end. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

katank

06-09-2004, 02:14

that's true. some reason druzhina seem to stick around longer than most even though they shoudl be routing they still fight.

FFK also gives more morale than the unit itself, hmm and melee power just loss of mobility.

now if I make FFK cav speed.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ragss

06-09-2004, 04:22

Quote[/b] (katank @ June 08 2004,19:07)]really? you always use em mounted? I always use them dismounted as foot knights seem too good to pass up.

60 men cav would be interesting.

do you use them as pure flanker/rear attack?

do they actually seemt o rout the enemy faster than 40 cav?

maybe I'll give them a try when mounted.
No no, they suck pretty hardcore. I always use my cav. for flanking unless I screw up, but by the end of the battle there is usually about 12 left and they have like -2 valour since they constantly routed. But hey, its cool since there is 60 of em and they have axes...I have a thing for axes.

katank

06-09-2004, 04:25

yep, axe wielding cav is a new one for me too.

I think it's hard to pass on FFK

besides, CA probably created druzhina for use purely in dismounted form as it filled the important gap in the Russian roster of no swords.

halbs just don't quite cut it when you need good attacking inf.

FFK, on the other hand, are swords beyond your wildest dreams, esp. the 60 men variety.

I swear that there is just about no way to counter 960 fully upgraded FFK which is easy to field if you use the druzhina.

ROCKHAMMER

06-09-2004, 15:48

How do you tell if a province has the "Mercenary Resource" ability? I didn't even know there was such a thing.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

To answer the question, I always hire the troops that I can not get otherwise (Non-Catholic units when playing Catholic and so on). I particularly like to hire the Horse Archer units as they are very helpful as flankers and can also run down enemy troops once they are routed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ragss

06-09-2004, 22:30

I dont even know how to dissmount, come to think of it....how do you do it?

And I dont find FFK all that effective...I got a crap load of them when one of my former procinces rebelled, giving me 3 stacks of crusade style troops. My FFK did very poorly against arab infantry, and nubian spearmen. This is in Medmod btw.

katank

06-09-2004, 22:37

@ rockhammer.

only medmod has merc resource stuff

don't worry about it unless you are playing medmod.

if playing vanilla, just put up an inn next to a busy front that's not very developed.

@ ragss, at the beginning of the battle before you hit begin, you can right click the cav unit and hit dismount/remount this should be clickable if that unit is capable of dismounting in this battle and greyed out if not.

in medmod, the stats are changed and nubians and arab inf both got buffed IIRC.

in vanilla VI, 60 men FFK own

jadast

06-10-2004, 00:14

I rarely keep mercs. I buy them for an invasion. keep them a turn or two until I can stabilize my lines and then disband them. Repeat as needed to avoid high support costs.

Herodotus

06-10-2004, 10:43

I use Mercs as little as possible, organ guns I buy without fail but otherwise I prefer to make do with what my faction provides me with. I am usually thinking long term when I am playing and so mercs do not appeal to me, they fight they die and you cannot retrain them, my men on the other hand can be merged and retrained so I end up with high valour men who don't cost an arm and a leg.