For Hellenic History Specialists

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I would like to ask the Hellenic History Specialists of the forum, the origin of the term Hoplite. I've read in two different books that:

-It was originated from the word used to describe that large shield they used: Hoplon.
-It was originated from an hellenic term that signifies "barer of arms". Their shield wasn't called Hoplon.

Which one is true? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

Thanks in advance for any explanation... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Red Peasant]

I don't think there is any definite knowledge of the word's origins. However, one can say that the general word for a Greek soldier's equipment was 'Ta Hopla' (sorry for the Latin transliteration, but I'm having trouble getting my Greek font to work), the plural form of 'To Hoplon'. My take on it is that the hoplite was named for the panoply of equipment he could afford in order to become a full citizen soldier, i.e. helmet, breastplate, greaves, shield, spear and sword.

The specific name for the shield was 'aspis', and a shield-bearer/warrior was thus 'aspisters'.

However, that said, the term hoplon seems to have attached itself more specifically as a name for a shield at a later date.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ June 05 2004,14:38)]I don't think there is any definite knowledge of the word's origins. However, one can say that the general word for a Greek soldier's equipment was 'Ta Hopla' (sorry for the Latin transliteration, but I'm having trouble getting my Greek font to work), the plural form of 'To Hoplon'. My take on it is that the hoplite was named for the panoply of equipment he could afford in order to become a full citizen soldier, i.e. helmet, breastplate, greaves, shield, spear and sword.

The specific name for the shield was 'aspis', and a shield-bearer/warrior was thus 'aspisters'.

However, that said, the term hoplon seems to have attached itself more specifically as a name for a shield at a later date.
Thank you, Red Peasent http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Very good explanation That clears my doubts... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Impaler]

The shield that was called Hoplon was a special kind of shield for the geometric age and a vast advance compared to earlier shields, Skoytaria and Sakoys. The term hoplite itshelf was used to describe citizens who were equal each others and under the obligation to bare arms for the defense of the city state. So we must not think Hoplon as a just a weapon but as a symbol of the state and citizenship. A symbol for free men. Thus the respect for the shield and the social meaning that had lead those who wield it be called hoplites. "The ones that bare the Hoplon"

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Impaler @ June 08 2004,06:16)]The shield that was called Hoplon was a special kind of shield for the geometric age and a vast advance compared to earlier shields, Skoytaria and Sakoys. The term hoplite itshelf was used to describe citizens who were equal each others and under the obligation to bare arms for the defense of the city state. So we must not think Hoplon as a just a weapon but as a symbol of the state and citizenship. A symbol for free men. Thus the respect for the shield and the social meaning that had lead those who wield it be called hoplites. "The ones that bare the Hoplon"
Thanks, Impaler http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Rosacrux]

The aspis shield was called hoplon too, Red Peasant. Thukydides and Xenophon, at least, refer to it as "hoplon" - the only kinda obscure point is wether they refer to the particular (large, round, initially wooden, then bronze, then wooden and bronze coated) design that became the emblem of the hoplite, or generally in shields used by that particular type of warrior (it's really like the "who came first, the chicken or the egg", question).

Hoplite, as Impaler points out, was originally just designating the warrior that carries the particular shield, but in time it became a term to describe the free citizen of the city-states, those who had the right to bear those shields.

Other than that, the explainations are correct.

[Red Peasant]

Like I said Rosa, Hoplon was a later designation for a shield, but originally it was not. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Rosacrux]

Hmm... is it only me or does "Rosa" sound awfully... feminin? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Red Peasant]

It's only you....mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Nothing meant by it.

[Red Peasant]

I'll call you Ros or R. then. Never thought about it. Just couldn't be bothered to write out the whole name, except the first time.

I am usually RP or Red, or something a whole lot worse. Name don't mean so much to us Anglo's.

If Rosacrux is what you wanna be called, then no probs, but I can't speak for everyone else. No disrespect meant.

Cheers

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Thank you for the informations, my Lords http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[Rosacrux]

Quote[/b] (Red Peasant @ June 09 2004,17:49)]I'll call you Ros or R. then. Never thought about it. Just couldn't be bothered to write out the whole name, except the first time.

I am usually RP or Red, or something a whole lot worse. Name don't mean so much to us Anglo's.

If Rosacrux is what you wanna be called, then no probs, but I can't speak for everyone else. No disrespect meant.

Cheers
just poking some fun lad, no problemo really http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif