View Full Version : :( no fun anymore!
Lethal DRB
06-09-2002, 02:31
Well guys:
Ive been playing much this week (as usual) and when I was playing it was so boring that I went to rainbow six what I hardly never play!!!
I miss the times of old STW!
in stw sometimes there came 100 people in the room and here we say WOW if there r just 50 in http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
And I like to see much more people here!
I hate it to be lonely in the room and last weeks I feel lonely in the room.
Hope u guys come more online.
And otherwise we got the full rooms of rainbow six on the internet.
DRB
I hear ya m8. It's been the growing thawn in the communities side all the time. But we can't do much to change it. We can stand and scream all we like. If you want to, you could personally distribute copies of the game....or pay for global promotions of it. But most of all. Make sure you don't fall victim to the communities loved and lost graveyard.
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity"
Sjakihata
06-09-2002, 05:13
However Rainbow Six is a cool game (Of course the book is better http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif )
Be nice to newbies is the key to it all.
Too many (1 is already too many) get scared away by bad behaviour...really bad behaviour.
Those who think it's funny to abuse newbies for fun should be deeply ashamed..they kill our future (and their own also).
Seen this happen often...Thanks alot! (NOT)
AggonyKas
Orda Khan
06-09-2002, 06:33
Yes Kas, very true. There are a few who find it amusing or clever to abuse others online.
On the other hand there are those who offer help and advice.
Have you ever thought of trying this DRB? I appreciate the fact you are quite young and may feel awkward doing this but I am convinced that this would be welcomed by the newbies who mention your achievements with awe.There seem to be a lot of 'regulars' missing of late so perhaps you are feeling 'lonely' because the others in the foyer don't enter your games. And perhaps they don't enter for fear of being abused in the way mentioned by Kas.
I speak from experience DRB. I've been called names, mainly for not doing what my ally thinks I ought to.Is this a game or what? I am old enough to take this insult and laugh about it. I imagine there may also be those who feel intimidated by them.
Let me make it clear to everyone, this is not levelled at you DRB because I know you are not like that.
Imagine what it feels like to enter an online game, you've played this STW and you think you are an ok player so you decide to go muliplayer. There you are deploying for your first online allied battle. Your nerves are tingling, it starts. Horror of horrors the AI was never like this! Your army is running for the hills, you are busy picking your jaw up off the floor and your ally.....
This...person is bombarding you with a tirade of foul mouthed abuse.
How keen would you be to come back?
I know I've sort of strayed off track a bit as none of this relates to DRB but I do feel it relates to the content of DRB's post.
I hear people saying the game is dead, not what it used to be and so on but how do things become this bad? Because we let them. If a stranger enters your game, make them feel welcome. If you crush them offer advice not abuse. If we conduct ourselves in this way I am sure the community will be safe.
Once again let me stress this is not directed at you DRB but at the reason you feel as you do. I feel you deserve congratulations for what you have achieved. I would also like to see you go on and do it again rather than remember it as something you once did.
..........Orda
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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
The vet "avoiding" newbies attitude is disturbing...no wonder the game doesn't grow. Bad behaviour all the way.
Anyway, I agree with Kas.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Like there is no flower without a seed, without newbies there will be no champions.
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I am the law and you can't beat the law.
MagyarKhans Cham
06-09-2002, 16:31
Its a natural reaction drb, u played a lot last weeks for the tourney and now u have won it u feel satisfied and less willingly to play fast fter it again. its like winning a big soccerfinal, the year after it most of these guys who have won have a lousy year.
NinjaKilla
06-09-2002, 17:36
I think it's inevitable that numbers will fade... after all many of us have been playing pretty much the same game for the last two or so years: people are bound to get weary of it.
BTW Very well put Kas, unfortunately it is all too common.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Hey DRB i got my comp sorted out etc now http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I should be on much more now!
Lets get some 2v2 going m8.Post me the times u gunna be on.See if i can make it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
FastCub
Azzamain
06-09-2002, 21:23
(Extract from a ancient scroll) During the melee, Azzamain slipped away unnoticed by disguising himself in the uniform of a dead Chain infantryman. None of his men escaped alive. Alone and destitute, Azzamain disappeared into the Shinano hinterlands, having lost his honor and his lands forever.
Perhaps not.
The return is near.
Regarding friendly battles,
Perhaps a few courtesy rules as well?
I have played quite a few friendlies over the last few weeks after being absent since christmas.
I was dissapointed in the vast number of missile duels i faced,
On flat maps.
Almost everybody i played brought 3 to 5 guns plus archer's and cav archers,
Where is the fun in having to sit back and be shot to hell?
because if you charge you get routed?
even in 1.03!
Simply put more players should try maps other than flat ones, and play a more mixed army.
After all these are friendly games i'm talking about.
If we want players to keep coming back we must make the game a bit more interesting and challenging. So what if you lose a few because some newbie succeeds in springing an ambush, it's all in fun? right?
How about more of us put max gun, max archer limits on games and focus more on command and control rather than sheer firepower?
suggested level is max of 2 of any type (missile)
- with a maximum limit of 4 total? (missile)
(had some great games at 2500 koku as well,
long games - 20 to 45 minutes...)
8-)
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 06-10-2002).]
*reads Azzamains post*
*smiles* Azzamain back too? Right on!
I've been pretty wary of late though....perhaps 'cos I'm a suspicious *******. But it does seem coincidence how a few old players return in the past month or so.
In the terms of Elvandar and the Eledhel, a returning is a reason to rejoice. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity"
7bear7Blade
06-10-2002, 15:04
Well,I was in STW this week....sad...sad...
Maybe we can bring things back to live by organising 'STW days'. Meaning:
We pik a weekly day(random) and come to STW.
I mean everyone,so we have no trouble with timezone's then. C'mon y'all, There are so many of you all posting here... just get in STW once or twice this week.
There are enough newbie's comming there,but they won't keep comming if no one is there...
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Honour is Loyalty
I've quitted Old STW...
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Quote Originally posted by 7bear7Blade:
Well,I was in STW this week....sad...sad...
Maybe we can bring things back to live by organising 'STW days'. Meaning:
We pik a weekly day(random) and come to STW.
I mean everyone,so we have no trouble with timezone's then. C'mon y'all, There are so many of you all posting here... just get in STW once or twice this week.
There are enough newbie's comming there,but they won't keep comming if no one is there...
[/QUOTE]
7bear7blade, no offence intended, but what is the point of keeping STW alive? Why not to join STW/MI instead? Then there would be a foyer with lots of people, lots of battles to choose from. Moreover, there would be enough ppl for the competing stats. So, come and try the new stats (or the old one http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif )!
PS. it is myth (kinda urban legend) that all 1.02 patch battles are boring gun duels. I have played dozens (hundreds?) of 3v3 and 4v4 battles lately and none of them was a pure gun duel. BTW, it depends on you!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I have to agree with Cheetah on the team games thing. I've played hundreds of team games during MI 1.02 and EVEN when they were on ironing board they were quite always interesting because a 2v2 is NOT 2 1v1s...it is ONE big army vs another equal counterpart. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Tera.
P.S.
I've played heaps of 1v1's though...and Blade is right there...it is ALWAYS the SAME.
10k Ironing Board Comp 4 max No ashis. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif It is a good balanced game in itself but hell - always the same!
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
theforce
06-11-2002, 00:06
Like everything good when played too often gets dull. I mean listen to an amazing song, at first it sounds awesome but when heard a lot it becomes boring. Same applies for Shogun, don't play too much :P
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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
theforce,
The problem is tactics in 1v1 are more limited than they could be. The 1v1 game on iron gets boring once you realize that guns and YA are dominant and the other units just don't cut it. Big games are different because one side can concentrate a huge number of units on a single enemy army and overwhelm guns/ashi or anything else.
I would say a limit of 2 guns and no YA would provide a better game with v1.02. In my opinion, the 4 gun limit is still too many guns because each gun unit can kill 200 men. Win the gun battle with 4 guns remaining and then shoot all the remaining men in the opposing army.
MizuYuuki ~~~
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-10-2002).]
theforce
06-11-2002, 00:49
I know what u are saying mate. I hate playign in ironing board in 1v1. It just turns into another projectile war.
I love games with many players in uneven ground and like you have said tactics there can vary a lot.
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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000041637/1000041637_610200225253PM0.9811823.jpg
Lethal DRB
06-12-2002, 17:01
Orda:
I have tried to help new people and I have tryed to train some people.
but even if i did that it was getting boring.
Mag:
I wanted to post this even before the semi final.
and IF I ever play vs newbys I always take less then 3 musks or atleast a fun army.
Its just that it is so empty in the room.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
DRB
Lethal DRB
06-12-2002, 17:11
BTW:
If there is entering some1 in the room and im not very bussy I always say hi back but its just that there r sometimes around 8gmt 9gmt in evening there r just 30 people or less http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Then some people ask to host a team game and then no one joins.
and if u hosting a 1v1 then no one joins too.
I wonder sometimes if they buyed this game to play or to sit and chat???
DRB
perhaps the new-fella's and gal's don't realise that a friendly is just that,
meant to be fun and lighthearted...
mayhaps we need to advertise that fact a little more when we are sitting in a game waiting for people to join,
and just maybe we should all adjust our tactics and methods to suit?
perhaps natter to them during battle, unit selection and during setup...
If we want them to stay we need to encourage them,
no yelling cause they (or I for that matter)
stuff things up a little bit and leave us alone to face 2 or more enemies,
invite them to stay and watch the end game,
yell challenges at your remaining opponents,
(hint at their parental's relationship's with hampsters and elderberries)
in short have some fun ourselves, even when things go terribly wrong
- ESPECIALY when things go terribly wrong...
(especially when my damn panzer IV's get bogged..damn rain..)
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
snip...
The 1v1 game on iron gets boring once you realize that guns and YA are dominant and the other units just don't cut it.
...snip
snip...
In my opinion, the 4 gun limit is still too many guns because each gun unit can kill 200 men.
...snip
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-10-2002).][/QUOTE]
I'm a total newbie who's still in his first single player campaign, but I'll probably try out multiplayer sooner or later. I started playing STW but will install MI once I finish my first campaign.
I'm quite puzzled by the discussion on the strongest units. What has happened to the musketeers in MI or the new stats files? When I use guns in single player they are of extremely limited use. My personal record is to kill 22 AI units in a battle, but usually they only kill about 10, and that's when they're standing on high ground and with the enemy just marching back and forth in front of them without attacking. However, everyone here speaks of muskets as weapons of mass destruction. Do they mutate at high honour levels like the yari ashigarus on steriods?
Cazbol
Konnichiwa Cazbol san,
While the same stats are used in off- and online battles, you'll get different outcomes.
The musket is indeed quite poor offline (not only because the AI fails to use them properly). The same gun proves to be devesting in online games (would the different timers play a role here?).
Go play online, you'll meet some nice people, learn new tactics, improve your fighting skill and will defeat AI armies more easily.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Quote Originally posted by Lethal DRB:
BTW:
If there is entering some1 in the room and im not very bussy I always say hi back but its just that there r sometimes around 8gmt 9gmt in evening there r just 30 people or less http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Then some people ask to host a team game and then no one joins.
and if u hosting a 1v1 then no one joins too.
I wonder sometimes if they buyed this game to play or to sit and chat???
DRB[/QUOTE]
I never had any problem to fill up a 4v4 game. Though I usualy play with US guys (early morning according to gmt http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif ). I noticed that european fellas are more competitive, they prefer 1v1 or max 2v2 games. Dunno why ...
Cazbol,
In addition to TosaInu's remarks, with careful unit choice human players are able to optimize their armies to create the static conditions which benefit guns, and the tendency to play on ironing board benefits guns as well. Kills of over 100 for each musket is not that hard to achieve. The endgame often boils down to the winner being the one with who has the most guns left.
MizuYuuki ~~~
NinjaKilla
06-13-2002, 15:27
Yeah sorry blade I quit STW too. It's a shame because I STILL THINK STW IS A BETTER GAME http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif(private j/k) but as I said before my interest waned and with it my skill. I guess I just couldn't motivate myself anymore. Anyway I'm on MI now and actually having more fun that I expected learning it. Unfotunately I think that STW is dead now - espescially with the sad demise of Insane (surely one of em could have kept it going?!?). So hopefully we'll be seeing some of you 7bear7 on the 'new' (see I still have the fundamentalism in me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) server. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Tankdogg123
06-13-2002, 15:58
The only reason I hate 3v3 and 4v4 is the damn lag aaaaaarrggghhhhh! I can't cope with it!
i think, this game is now 2 years old!
and still some peeps play it, thats very nice.
BUT
the great prob was that they splitt us with 2 server....that we had to wait tooo long for a good patch....
and now, there is a patch wich splitt us again. this patch DONT SOLVE the probs.
i think many are bored, and play other games the only solution is to wait of MTW.
The older peeps left and now u see mostly young guys wich cant control theyr mouth they cheat and play just for the honour...
..its very hard to find some good players and to play hard battles...
koc
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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
kocmoc,
there are still some of us ancients left who remember the Glory Days...
i only ever play friendlies, sadly a few still cheat - but the vast majority don't bother, not for friendlies...
And if you want a fun & hard battle or two catch Gregoshi online and play on one of Gregoshi's favourite maps - a riot they are...
After the game check Gregoshi's army, and be prepared to faint...
the units that boy goes into battle with would make a gunners heart leap into his mouth in terror...
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)
Gregoshi
06-13-2002, 21:27
Unfortunately for Barocca, he's usually my ally. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I'd love to be able to see his face while we chat during setup...
B: Bring your guns up fast.
G: What guns?
or
B: What kind of army did you select?
G: I've got no missile units.
Occassionally it almost works - LOL
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Gregoshi
A Member of Clan Doragon
[This message has been edited by Gregoshi (edited 06-13-2002).]
Konnichiwa kocmoc san,
and now, there is a patch wich splitt us again. this patch DONT SOLVE the probs.
Could you please explain to me how an extra option would split us?
Could you specify which problems?
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
ofcourse,
the prob isnt solve if the units kill slower,
the gamespeed is to fast, thats the real prob.... (i know that can only solve by CA....)
u guys think the ashis was a great prob. i dont agree!
i tested a lot with this ashis, we spoke a lot about this ashis..... in a simply unit1v1 they do great, but in a whole battle they are weak.... i wont discuss again about the ashis.....
guns have less power, thats very nice.
more friendly kills... hmmm, i think with this gamespeed its just more micromanaging and makes it much more harder to lower the friendly kills.
the story was that in STW all was moaning about the monk-rush, thatswhy we got guns wich could stop every rush....now we go back and make the guns less effectiv and maybe we see rushes again...
i have the prob to understand what u want!
Like the ninja rush...ashi rush.... we will always exploit the system so we will always find some tricks... wich give us a better chance to win the game.
We have to go total back, guns shouldnt shoot in rain! No Upgrades!
make it easyer to control...not more micromanaging!
if u can remember as the 1,02 was created i told/posted that the guns still to strong, i suggested a power of 3... now some months later it got changed (i think 3,6 and slower firerate).
to ur other point...
why we got splitt again, many guys need a long time to get a feeling for the units and a feeling for new patches some havnt the time to play the 100 games to come back to theyr "form"...many wont "learn" again....coz they will win.
i like it, its a good idea but it dont solve the real prob.
i loved this lag-games with 6 or 8 players, where u could realy think about ur maneuvers... hehe it was possible to create great moves, some of this nice moves are now impossible. u havnt the time to move 16 units fast enought, so the game is reduce to hotkeys (still not enought) where u always take little mistakes, ofcouse u know the little mistakes but u have to accept this little instead of a bigger mistake...
example: my main-infantry-shooters are 3 units 2 guns and 1 archer, -hotkey NR.4
i always use this 3 untis together but sometimes it would be better if i would move just 2 guns...thats clear...
but i havnt the time, and this isnt solved with slower killing. it can just be solved with slower marching!
maybe i dont understood the whole patch, so its possible that im just stupid.
i just try to give my ideas ...
koc
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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
Kocmoc,
I find your post a little hard to follow, but I will comment on what I can understand.
When I play original STW, I see that the infantry is faster than in WE/MI v102. If WE/MI v1.02 is too fast, then STW is also too fast. Some infantry tactics like flanking were lost in v1.02 because fighting speed was not slowed down. In v1.03 fighting speed is slowed down more than infantry speed was slowed in v1.02. The infantry flanking tactics are back to an even greater degree than in STW. A naginata in hold formation can stand for 3 minutes. That is a long time. Your desire for an even slower game is a minority opinon. Already, several players online have commented to me that v1.03 is too slow now.
Many players using v1.02 say "no ashi" now. If ashi are not a problem, players would not say that. Also, we can see the problem in numerical analysis of the combat stats, and a similar problem exists with the YS and starts to become apparent to 10K koku.
Yes, many players have put in a lot of time developing their tactics for v1.02. However, the transition to v1.03 is not that hard. No rules about unit choice are necessary in v1.03, and you can play at 7k koku which reduces the problems caused by too many upgrades. Forget about v1.02. It's broken.
The infantry rush has greater chance for success in v1.03, but it's not a guaranteed win. The 3 arms of cavalry, infantry and ranged unit are in a better balance to each other in v1.03. Guns are still very effective, and muskets are very poor in the rain even though they can still shoot. They are practically useless in rain.
The community is not split if everyone is there in the same room, and can switch stats to suit whatever game is being hosted. We may get more players in the foyer now because some don't play because they don't like v1.02. Now those players can come to the foyer and play something other than v1.02 which is better than not having them there at all.
We were on the right track with guns. Musk were lowered to power 2 and reload 27 by me during the v1.02 beta testing. They were tested and everyone said "too weak". We lowered reload to 24, and still "too weak". We raised power to 3 and still "too weak", but opinion was split equal 4 yes and 4 no. Then on the last day guns suddenly set to power 5 when there was not enough time to fully test. I got a compromise of power 4, but within a few weeks after release it was apparent that power 3 would have been better. This decision on guns was happening at a time of great pressure to get the v1.02 done, and many adjustments were made during the last week. The v1.02 needed more battle testing than it got. A lot more. We ran out of time. The real problem with v1.02, as I see it, is a combination of overpowered guns, too cheap upgrades on low cost units, and too fast combat.
I can see that players who learn a system and get very good with it do not want the system changed because they loose the sharpness in their play, and have to redevelop their system of play. On the other hand, players who want the most interesting gameplay want the system changed if it can be improved. They don't want to play using an inferior system, and don't mind relearning because that where the fun is for them. There is a conflict of interest between these two groups of players, and no solution to it.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Thats life!
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
FastCub
well, maybe my emglish is the big prob like so often.
but the units move slower than in stw?
sorry, but i cant agree! the gamespeed on stw is slower, maybe in ur stats the unit march slower that can be true.
"players who want the most interesting gameplay want the system changed if it can be improved"
ok, this sounds good, BUT where are this players? i see just 30 peeps online in good times...i miss this players.
I hink u got me a bit wwrong, so i try again.
i personal like this patch, it make it better.
But, what i heard..... some guys say (not newbies) "just a few older players change the system to win vs the newbies again..."
i tryed always to help the majority of this community not just a few...
and the majority are this 30 or 60 guys wich play right now... not the 200 or 300 other guys wich didnt showed up since months or weeks.
U will say, thats not a prob they can switch between this 2 systems....
i say, true thats a very nice idea, but imo a patch can just work if u make it to a standart and not to a choice.
Please dont get me wrong, i realy think this 1,03 make it better and its a good work.
But u didnt said anything in ur post abour the micromanaging, and this is much more now.
yes, the units kill faster but i want to see how U will controll this.
(bad english) i personal have a plan, but in MI i cant bring 100% of this plan, coz i havnt the time. So if u higher the micromanaging u higher the time u need to give orders. And i can just say, i play without any soundcart my gameplay is very smooth, no lag and i click with mouse twice per second, my camera is on fastest speed but i still cant bring my plan with 80%, this 20% are mistakes and i know this mistakes i just havnt the time.
this was my few and it ist important for the prob we have now....
i told u in my upper post maybe im absolut wrong here, but we will see in the next weeks what happen, i just talked with some vets and they told me they wont change to 1,03 just if all other did already.
so imo, u have just 1 chance, give them a patch and dont allow to switch.
but what are patches made for?
like u said.... for the most interesting gameplay... but if the majority is happy with a gameplay wich isnt so good, why a minority will change it?
if we had 120 peeps online i would thank to god for this, but us left the players wich we need for this system, this guys wich play at the moment play just flat maps and dont try anything just if someone bring a new tactic they change coz they lose to often.
and the ashis, rofl... thats just the same like with monks in stw, some guys who are say "no ashis" cant even control theyr other 16 units!
i never did care about ashis and i won. other won vs ashis too, so where was the prob?
just the "old vets" wich lost to newbies started crying and said the ashi and the guns are the prob....
i tested ashis too, but in my standart games i never used them. And i bet i have 1 of the strongest setups in MI (i wont sit on my cloud). Look at magy, he dont use ashis!
Other guys dont ahis and win... why we won without this "so super ashis" ?
I will say it to u, all this " old vets" come to MI and played theyr old style and lost, even lost to newbies coz this guys didnt know anything and startet to test diff. tactics. The "old vets" lost and left the game.
We invented new tactics, 1 of the famous starttactic was to rush the guns with fast cav and rout this units... later we saw some guys wich testet upgrades (with the first patch already).
a bit later we noticed a higher kokuaverage per game and it changed again.
than we saw some better tactics, like using of guns-archer combo with saving of guns to change the balance... Paolai was 1 of the first who did it. Amp exploited always the system since old stw times...
i think i come from 1 point to another and lost the topic...
...Not the patch is the prob, the time and the community is the prob...
koc
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Grey Wolves (http://www.totalwar.club.tip.nl/)
NinjaKilla
06-14-2002, 15:53
Quote Originally posted by Kocmoc:
,
the gamespeed is to fast, thats the real prob.... [/QUOTE]
I hate to agree hehe, but this is blatantly the prime problem with MI. When I first heard of a real time strategy war game I was suspicious, however the game speed in STW was perfect, allowing a greater range of tactics. Although I have yet to master MI, it seems that the need to get units into combat and the reduced time avalable to cordinate an attack/defense, has reduced the tactical options. However having said that, the slower gamespeed in STW also meant lag in 2v2+ which actually reduced the tactical options because opponents could see moves coming a mile off.
Is there any way that the gamespeed could be reduced without the cost of increased lag? I will be real disappointed if Medieval is the same speed as MI. If there is a trade off, surely it would be best to suffer the lag, espescially with the increasing numbers of people with broadband?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
...u hate to agree?!?! hey u dont like me, hu? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
1.03 makes hand to hand combat slower.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
I'll use best of both worlds...STW and MI.
STW far more friendly most of the time, with thanks to the Insanes (still alive) and the 7Bear7.
Kas http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
BarryNoDachi
06-14-2002, 18:10
i am pretty new to this community and having played on both stw and mi, i find that the gamespeeds are very different and both have pros and cons as NK and kocmoc previously stated. i also beleive there are problems with patch 1.02 (widely accepted) but most ppl are happy to play 6-8k with a 4 max and no ashi rule which does seem to iron out these problems somewhat. (i myself play with these rules as i "apparently have trouble controlling my other 16 units" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif) if kocmoc could help me with this i would appreciate it as i really struggle playing against ashis especially as i avoid using them myself http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif.
A new patch is great if these problems can be addressed and full credit to those who spend time and effort trying to create a better playing experience for everyone, Thank You. I understand that CA (or whoever) are not helping, but do you think it needs to be made into a proper patch before it will work? is this possible at all??
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Hi Kocmoc,
I see what you are saying now.
The biggest problem is that CA/DT has stopped all official patching of STW and WE/MI. They made the gamespeed faster in WE/MI v1.0 with some bug fixes to the network code, and did not take the time to readjust the foot speed, fighting speed and reload speed of the units to compensate for that. I never measured just how much faster WE/MI v1.0 is compared to STW v1.12. We also don't know what most of the units stats are in STW. Everything we did in WE/MI v1.02 beta had to be determined by testing, and it took a lot of time.
We did not identify the speed problem until well into the beta testing. We tested slower foot speeds on infantry and cavalry during the v1.02 beta, and it was terrible gameplay because the fighting speed was unchanged. As a result, supporting units always arrived too late to help a unit in trouble. We ended up choosing a 25% slowdown in foot speed for infantry, and left cavalry near the original speed after testing both slower and faster cav. Reload times on archers and guns was also made longer. We made a mistake in not slowing down speed of combat with some melee/defend parameter adjustments. Now we were making all those adjustment because CA/DT would not take the time to adjust a single timing loop in their main executable. It's just unbelievable. All that stuff caused us to loose our focus which was to fix the really bad units like "GUNS". After all that god damned work, the guns still came out wrong. With great reluctance TosaInu and I set out to fix up the v1.02 to what it was supposed to be. I did it because I'm very unhappy with v1.02, and consider it broken. The v1.03 doesn't make the game harder. It makes it easier to play because you have precisely what you are asking for which is more time to manage your units. At the same time, there is still a management challenge. The main problem I have is trying to operate on two opposite wings at the same time. In my opinion, if you slow down the gameplay even more than v1.03 many players will not like it because it will take too long to play a battle. It already takes considerably longer to play a v1.03 battle than a v1.02 battle.
When I say the infantry in STW is faster than in WE/MI v1.02, I mean in a relative sense. Infantry in STW is faster relative to cav and gun reload times. Just how fast in realtime the game plays depends on the network connections and the speed of each machine in the battle. I agree that at times the game plays very fast, but how can that be controlled? It fluctuates from too slow to too fast even during a single battle.
The v1.03 was not made so that vets can beat newbies again. It doesn't work in comp games. Comp games are always good old v1.02. Newbies don't understand that they have a better chance of winning with the v1.03 because one false step doesn't cost you the game in the blink of an eye. It's true that old STW tactics don't work in WE/MI v1.02. So, many vets probably left because of this.
I agree that only CA/DT should make a patch that forces everyone to use a new stat.
The gun/archer combo "saving guns until later" works because guns are so valuable. Four guns can kill your whole army. They remove the need to go in and fight hand-to-hand. They rout 90% of all infantry and cav units that try to attack them. If you have a tactic that works against this army, fine. I find that it limits gameplay, but, if the main purpose is winning, then no matter. If the objective is winning, then any play balance is acceptable. It makes no difference. Just do what you have to do to win. The gameplay problem with ashi/gun combo is not an issue in that case, and I can now see why you don't see it as an issue.
MizuYuuki ~~~
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-14-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-14-2002).]
Lethal DRB
06-15-2002, 14:33
As u all know my English is terrible.
So I dont know what u was all saying yuuki.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
I never read those long note's of the people here I only look what u on about and I understand http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
DRB
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