endgame rebellions

[cutepuppy]

Just finished a 100% conquest game for the first time, and despite all the stories of massive rebellions, faction reappearances, civil wars,... I didn't get one of them.
I played turkish, early, hard. My last two sultans had max influence and piety, all the other stats were average. When I checked the loyalty of my provinces, it was always 200%, except for those who were just conquered.
So, I want to know, how common are those massive rebellions? Or am I just lucky?

[-Amon-]

try medmod..and prepare for huge rebellions with stacks of knights templar,feudal foot kn. etc.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

[RedKnight]

cp, I haven't gotten them in recent memory (since I started really paying attention to loyalty, and keeping lots of peasants at hand). I usually try to keep all provinces above 180% loyalty, with auto-tax (thus, most are taxed at very high). These are expert games, MTW/VI 2.01. Influence should always be high (since you own most the map), and I have never worried about piety or zeal, which has almost always been real low all the way around. (I haven't tried a crusade since forever.) I do try to convert all my provinces, with massive hordes of clerics, just to reduce peacekeeper costs and the chance of religious rebellion. (I sure wish you could stack strategic agents, sigh.)

For newbies - I don't recommend letting provinces have low loyalty, because your king might be adding a lot of happiness, which will be lost when he dies or goes to an Ireland. Also, another way to check loyalty (besides hitting the Shift key) is to bring up the Economics popup (coins button) and sort by Loyalty.

[Tozama]

I do not have Viking Invasion yet.

I will say that the few times I ever had any rebellions it was while playing Egyptians and some other non-catholic factions and never was there any endless cycle of them.
Spain has Portugal which can erupt out of nowhere sometimes. But nothing unmanageable.

Perhaps those reporting them have it happen as a result of some unique style of play?

[makkyo]

Thats interesting... when I played as the Engilsh (early hard) I only had germany, fance, and a little of spain and then I started getting anual rebelions in my HOMELAND Each rebellion had aprox. 1000-2000 enemies in it and I still managed to keep england, if only with a MASSIVE garrison of my best troops and huge tax cuts, but even then the rebellions kept coming. Made me angry, but I still won. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[RedKnight]

It's my vague recollection that with the first release of MTW (before patching), auto-taxing could lead to a lot of rebellions. This might or might not be the cause of some of the (older?) statements about massive rebellions. However, this probably doesn't apply to you, Makkyo, if you say you made tax cuts (thus, no auto tax), eh?

I don't understand why folks are talking about a lot of rebellion... I've never seen it, since my early days of playing when I didn't handle loyalty well. I always leave a huge margin, for when the king dies... maybe that's all it was??

[katank]

the vanilla MTW had autotax at 100 which isn't enough for remergences etc. and no headroom.

VI has it at 120 and is much better.

I like to have tons of second level religious agents around as well as spies.

you'll be amazed that I managed to get a Imam in everyone of my provinces as the Turks and this made everyhting 100% muslim and 70+ zeal. Any idea how strong jihads are at that level? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (cutepuppy @ June 07 2004,10:10)]Just finished a 100% conquest game for the first time, and despite all the stories of massive rebellions, faction reappearances, civil wars,... I didn't get one of them.
I played turkish, early, hard. My last two sultans had max influence and piety, all the other stats were average. When I checked the loyalty of my provinces, it was always 200%, except for those who were just conquered.
So, I want to know, how common are those massive rebellions? Or am I just lucky?
It doesn't matter if you are good ro lucky, cutepuppy, as long as you are one or the other

My guess is that you were a good dog and took care of business.

Congrats

ichi

[Lil' Timmy]

so far, i've only had the patience to complete the viking campaign with the vikings (on hard).. not only did i never receive any rebellion, but i saw only one faction even pop back up (the mercians). i used auto tax and i was fairly diligent about building, so my kings were generally pretty beloved. financing was easy b/c i didn't let up on the raiding for very long ever.. and once i had few northumbrian provinces i became self-sufficient anyway. besides with viking units, it's not like you need huge armies anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

i remember beating (badly) a force of ~1700 saxons with ~500 huscarls and 48 (2 units) of berserkers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif maybe that's not a huge deal, but i was like, wow, just get out of the way when the huscarls show up

in the other eras, i almost always play GA.. the concept is just more fun to me.

since someone mentioned it, is medmod more realistic than the normal game? if so, in what way (i.e. in diplomacy? unit selection? trade management? etc..)

thanks

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[RedKnight]

Hiya Tim, welcome to the .org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I haven't played medmod either, but did ask about it in this (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=18647;hl=medmod) thread. Check it out.

Hey, share the suds http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Maedhros]

People who suffer lots of rebelions do so because they don't take standard precautions.

They only rebellions I fear are those that come with respawned factions. I like to leave each faction one worthless province. Destroy them at my leisure later.

[Ragss]

My turk hard campaign had no end game problems either. The pope reemerged a few times, but I always had at least 1200 troops (elite troops) sitting there waiting, and the french reemerged into ireland, and waited patiently for me to finish everyone else off before I sent my entire army from the whole of the map to take em out hehe.

Every province had border forts, 100 peasants, and the first town watch thing. Im pretty sure loyalty was at least 150 just about everywhere excpet the scandinavian areas where loyalty was a slight problem.

[Lil' Timmy]

cool, thx for the link RedKinght http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif. now i need to figure out how to install the dang thing (i didn't use the standard install path for MTW, and i don't get wes' distinction btwn the total war folder and the medieval - total war folder http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif)

[Underhand]

The one time I have actually bothered to conquer the whole map (early turks, probably normal since this was some time ago), I did not encounter the mass rebellions problem. I believe this was before Viking invasion, so maybe that counts? On the flip side of this, however, I used autotax, which at the time only kept loyalty above 100%. Every time enormous rebellions have occured in my games, I could trace the source (be it King dying and another one turning up in Constantinople when I'm England http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-angry.gif, or a mistake of my own http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif). I wonder what causes these discrepancies with others' results?

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]you'll be amazed that I managed to get a Imam in everyone of my provinces as the Turks and this made everyhting 100% muslim and 70+ zeal. Any idea how strong jihads are at that level?

Bah only 2500/jihad for passing 7 provinces http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and plenty of peasants, urban militia and artillery.

But if you launch 15 of them at the same time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

And I've never had much problem with rebellions.
The main problem is that in late-game were you own most of the map, the distance from your king is extremely important.
For example you'll need spies in Switzerland only because it's too far into the inland. The cause for these mass rebellions are that some part of your empire gets isolated from your king, and that only one hostile boat is needed to blocade a shipline.

And DON'T EVER attack with your king late-game, it's a bug that makes it calculate the distance to the king to maximum. And you'll never see that extreme loyalty drop, exept that most of your empire will rebel.

If think 3 provinces distance is about enough, if it's 4 or more you'll need troops or spies to prevent one.

[katank]

umm, I sent about 30 of the jihads after the mongols before and left them cooking in Const. for 1 turn.

this meant all silver armored futuwwas, turcoman foot, turcoman horse, kwarzies etc.

I absolutely crushed the mongols with some 50k men

I had to autocalc though as my machine couldn't handle that kind of a battle.

I actually had difficulty fitting all the markers onto Khazar http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[RedKnight]

omg kat did you get a screenshot of the strat map before it, or the battle results at the end, that you can post? hmm, wait - if auto, then you only saw how many were captured, eh?

that must've been awesome.

[katank]

no I didn't

it was crazy sweet.

unfortunately, my machine has a nasty habit of CTDing whenever something really cool happens.

I think our of the 23k mongols, there were about 15k killed and I lost like 7k.

it was beautiful.

outhording the horde. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

it's kinda cheap but funny.

you can try it yourself.

using my blitz start, just take Const. really early and you should go for grand mosque right away.

then pump Imams like there's no tomorrow.

after you fill up all your provinces with at least one Imam in each, just from the movement alone, Const. should have 80% zeal.

switch Const. to jihad marker production at around 1170 and build jihad markers until the horde arrives.

defend trebizond well and don't let them get at Const. or your are cooked.

I just cooked the jihads for 1 turn in case they would go for Const but they didn't so I could have actually waited longer.

silver amored everything was tough to beat for the mongols. even peasants would last a while.

I would have loved to use 16 turcomans again and again vs. the horde but that would CTD.

try it yourself and see if you can get it to work.

[Maedhros]

that must be the biggest, bloodiest battle I everheard of.

congrad on your victory, lets be friends............

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif


Right now I'm playing Byz, and I'm only being nice to the people in my capital. Everyone else gets to pay through the nose.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

We'll see what happens.