Dealing with disloyal general??

[Adamdc]

Is there a way to strip a general of his title for fear of him turning on you? I know you can take away his troops but can an emissary put him out of commission forever ( I know a spy can do it also)?

[Blodrast]

Yes, an emissary can strip him of his titles.
A spy reveals his hidden vices, but only in MTW 1.0 and 1.1; in VI you know all the vices, even the hidden ones.
You can also use an inquisitor if you're playing a catholic faction to burn him.
Or an assassin, of course ;)

[SwordsMaster]

Yeah....you can provoke an...hmm..ermmm...accident.
Who would be foolish enough as to charge that spearwall alone, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[Cebei]

Why dont you just disband him?

[Blodrast]

maybe he doesn't wanna lose the entire unit...

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]maybe he doesn't wanna lose the entire unit...

use the unit to replenish other units until only the general is left, then dispose of him as you wish. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Slice up the bastard with a nice single unit invasion against the three french stacks of pikes in flanders. But don't do what I did and send the wrong prince. Yes I did kill of the wrong prince, then I killed the right one and the next year my king died heirless. GAH
-Capo

[katank]

I like to use the replenish other stacks idea.

then I make sure I send him alone against a horde of enemies with lots of fast cav so he gets captured/killed and not ransomed.

another way is to provoke a rebellion and withdraw into a fort with a peasant or two and have them all starve to death.

I like to kill worthless suckers in batches so a single iteration of this can kill 5-10 worthless govs/general easily.

BTW, you can withdraw even if the rebellion is a long peasant

the rebel still does a good job of sieging the worthless to death despite the fact that you can actually beat that unit.

[ichi]

So to summarize, you can:

Disband the unit. This is easiest but you lose the whole unit, which is not a problem if the unit is weak or obsolete or you have too many units anyway.

Drop an Assassin on him. He may survive and not like you, he might get a V&V making it harder to kill him in the future.

Drop an Emissary on him. Removes any title, but his loyalty will probably go even lower. Only useful if he got a title.

Drop an Inquisitor on him. Rarely works, but cool when it does.

Drop a spy on him. He will be charged with treason. If the trail succeeds, the general is removed and all you other units get a loyalty bonus. If it fails, the general loses loyalty and gets the informants-vice, which protects him against further trails. Possibly there also is a loyalty penalty for other generals when a trail fails (thanks Ludens).

Send him to attack a nearby enemy, alone. I usually command these battles personally to make sure the bastid dies. May survive and get worse. May win and make matters really bad.

Merge him with another unit. Won't get rid of him if he has any stars or V&Vs. Try combining with disbanding. Combine a crappy Gen unit with a good unit so that the good unit gets the men, then disband the crappy leftovers.

Jack him up. Give him one of your daughters, a Governor title and/or another title

Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. Just add him to your Kings personal stack. Alternatively, add him to a stack of a Prince or other loyal high ranking Gen.

Usually a low loyalty Gen is a sign that you need to get your King more influence and happiness V&Vs, or that there is a great distance or other prob.

Some guys also have bad V&Vs, and these need to be dealt with.

ichi

edited to add Spy technique, thanks Ludens and Kristaps

[English assassin]

Send him to attack a nearby enemy, alone. I usually command these battles personally to make sure the bastid dies. May survive and get worse. May win and make matters really bad.

Ichi's right about that. Sometimes you get caught anyway. I tried the old selective breeding trick on my princes once (well, it was selective non-breeding I suppose) and sent the chinless wonder who was the eldest son on his own into a province stuffed full of bloodthirsty Russians.

Who decided they couldn't beat about four RK's led by a guy who thought he had been made pregnant by an elephant, and abandoned the province.

So I sent him chasing after them the next turn and the same thing happened. He worked his way through about four provinces before they finally agreed to kill him.

[Seven.the.Hun]

i like Kataar's approach, quite useful, practical, this might usually be best, unless getting extra work for one's own agents is needed or desired...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Seven.the.Hun]

case by case perhaps, might depend on how say influential and loyalty worthy your ruler is...or how bad off the kingdom is as far as loyalty is concerned...timing is much

[Imperial Buffoon]

If loyalty is the only problem, putting the gen's unit on his own in a stack and keeping the proper army he is supposed to lead in the neighbouring province ensures he doesn't rebel (unless he has 0 or 1 loyalty). He's more likely ro rebel if given a proper force to command.

[Ludens]

Ichi, you've forgotten to mention the treason-trail. Drop a spy on the general and he will be charged with treason. If the trail succeeds, the general is removed and all you other units get a loyalty bonus (I've never observed this, though).
Off course, if it fails, the general loses loyalty and gets the informants-vice, which protects him against further trails. Possibly there also is a loyalty penalty for other generals when a trail fails.

[Marquis de Said]

This is a bit off the thread, but...

In my current game as the Italians, I was trying to overthrow my weakling of a ruler by giving all the disloyal generals command of big armies in the good provinces, and the leaving the king and his cronies on Crete. Then I tried to trigger the rebellion by assassinating a general and hoping it fails. It failed twice, the guy became resilient, but never suspected a thing. Next I tried trying another general for treason. He was framed and executed, everybody's loyalty went up. At about the same time, I got attacked, so had to reshuffle troops and beat the enemy, which I did. By this time my king's influence was so high that I decided to stick with him.

I guess a nation sticks together in times of adversity.

Marquis

[motorhead]

you could have built a bunch of crusade markers then destroyed the chapter house. Each destroyed marker counts as a failed crusade which would reduce your ruler's influence by roughly 1 per crusade. Low influence == low general's loyalty.

[katank]

@motorhead, I usually don't want to kill my king that badly to justify wasting 4-5 markers costing 1k apiece.

I like sending them in alone as I managed to actually take a province or two by using the jedi heirs who are otherwise worthless.

if you really want him dead, have him battle an army full of cav that is preferably fastest speed and set him up with his rear facing the enemy.

he shoudl be killed/captured instantly.

[motorhead]

@katank - i should have been more specific in my previous post - it was directed at de Said's problem. Suiciding a weakling of a ruler didn't sound like a good option. He didn't mention having a good heir (if any) so suicide might mean end-game or another crappy ruler. Sounded more like he had a good general who he wanted to start a new royal line around - hence lowering influence is the best route, not suiciding your ruler.

[Kristaps]

Why don't I see drop a spy on him in the list? If a spy is successful, he will execute the guy and raise in value quite a bit. You can use a high valor spy to induce rebellions in enemies provinces at will...

[motorhead]

@kristaps - Ludens post:
Quote[/b] ]Ichi, you've forgotten to mention the treason-trail. Drop a spy on the general...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

[ichi]

Gah

Sorry

I go back and edit the post to make the list complete.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif

ichi

[Goofball]

I love a good burnin', myself...

[bighairyman]

there are several way to deal with disloyal generals.

1. Execute him using a spy, this could also raise loyalty of your other generals, i think. it said so in the game.

2. raise loyalty with princess or titles

3. sent on a suicide mission.

4. burn him with a inquisitor

5. if those failed, then use an assassin

6. IF all else fails, disband him.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[nizar]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif Anyone tried inciting a civil war to get a new ruler.

1. Can a general without royal blood become the ruler?
2. Will the surname of the royal line be changed?
3. How to ensure the rebels succeed without disrupting the kingdom too much?

[Marquis de Said]

@motorhead, you guessed correctly. My weakling ruler was well in his forties with heirs years away, and they would probably have been crappy as well ´because of the king's 3-influence stat. I tried to do it, because in my previous game as the Turks, I had a rebellion twice, and twice sided with the rebels. Both times the new king had a massive influence. Does he get some sort of bonus because he's just led a rebellion and everyone's followed him?

@nizar

1. As I said above I tried but didn't succeed. But in my Turkish game, I had two rebellions and both times a general became sultan (guys called Qansawh I and Shaykh I which iirc aren't Turkish royal household names).

2. It didn't change. Later royal uncles were just called Gazi, like the original Turkish sultans.

3. Maybe if you put all the disloyal generals in the good provinces and the king and all his loyal generals in the worst province.

Question to others: if a disloyal general rebels, will all the units (with less or equal command stat) in his stack rebel also, regardless of their loyalty?

Marquis

[katank]

yeah, if a general rebels, everyone in his stack does so too as they follow them.

a way to have a good overthrowing civil war is to make sure the lowest possible loyalty guys are leading each stack and get as many troops to rebel as possible.

I think there was an Eggy game in which El Cid became Sultan Ali I.

he certainly wasn't eggy royalty.

[Seven.the.Hun]

kinda lost on one thing, that is, oh say the king is dead after the 56 year thing...ok u have say 5 heirs, what decides 'which' one ascends??? might be confused, as to the ages and ranks and names, i thought i figured it before but i'm wondering???

[Marquis de Said]

@Seven.the.Hun

On VI 2.01 the oldest son of the dead king will ascend to the throne. If he has no sons, then his next oldest brother.

Marquis