View Full Version : butcher?
I was under the impression that this was a rare thing...If its not, than this thread is a waste of time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
But whatever...
https://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4356/butcher.jpg
Medieval Assassin
06-08-2004, 23:27
Kill 1000+ prisoners in one battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
Maedhros
06-09-2004, 05:27
there is also a vice for killing 2K.
Don't remember what is was exactly. But I credit the resulting dread with saving many lives in repressed rebellions.
it's all about the silver lining
How come did you get swift justice, scant mercy and butcher all at the same time? I thought they are in the same group or at the least, 2 of them are in the same group of V&Vs.
Seven.the.Hun
06-09-2004, 08:44
hmm, the swift justice thing can easily go to ruler, as is normal, all i know for sure is that i have received scant mercy and butcher in same battle same general...
all i did was execute first half dozen prisoners, then wait until the tally was over 1000 and pressed that squishy button again...and voila, u get both in one battle, only hard part is attacking the right place with right circumstances, not to mention, the right #s
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif
Are you sre about the division of executions? It would make all more interesting.
I got swift justice from executing all rebels when you have that option to execute all, execute ringleaders, or release all. I didnt even know why that window was there, so I decided to kill em all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I also didnt realize I had to let the counter go to 1000 and click it to get butcher, I usually just clicked it while the action is dieing down...guess I should stop executing a few dozen at a time.
Seven.the.Hun
06-09-2004, 09:37
indeed, one big pile, or several smaller ones, corpses none the less though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
as long as one doesnt mind the bloodlover vice/virtue
Quote[/b] (Seven.the.Hun @ June 09 2004,03:37)]indeed, one big pile, or several smaller ones, corpses none the less though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
as long as one doesnt mind the bloodlover vice/virtue
haha, I have gotten it before, and was damn proud of it.
RollingWave
06-09-2004, 10:29
No one noticed that he was a humanist while having scant mercy swift justice and being a butcher??? :P
King Edward
06-09-2004, 11:49
Just Like King Estivan II of Hungary in my game who was a born again Athieist http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
ROCKHAMMER
06-09-2004, 15:42
How do you kill prisoners during a battle? I think I remember reading this somewhere but, I don't recall where. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
King Edward
06-09-2004, 15:44
Click on the little box that shows how many men you have taken and you also get a rewarding squeltchey dead prisoner noise http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif
ROCKHAMMER
06-09-2004, 15:53
Thanks King Edward http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
King Edward
06-09-2004, 15:55
No Worries Rockhammer, Killing prisoners increases dread, but if you do it often it can affect happieness as well
ROCKHAMMER
06-09-2004, 16:24
Just what I need to do to my governors in conquered provinces. A little bit of dread is all it should take to keep the peasants in line. They will soon realize that my king is better than their old one, even if it kills them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Thanks again for the help
one of my games,pope was an atheisti had a screen but my computer crashed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif
Tricky Lady
06-09-2004, 18:00
Quote[/b] (Ragss @ June 09 2004,00:20)]I was under the impression that this was a rare thing...If its not, than this thread is a waste of time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif Your Doge is in a unit of Italian Infantry???
Was that a bug, or did you mod your game?
Kristaps
06-09-2004, 18:09
Quote[/b] (Tricky Lady @ June 09 2004,12:00)]
Quote[/b] (Ragss @ June 09 2004,00:20)]I was under the impression that this was a rare thing...If its not, than this thread is a waste of time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif Your Doge is in a unit of Italian Infantry???
Was that a bug, or did you mod your game?
I assume, he is playing the Wes mod: there Doges and Italian princes pop up among Italian Infantry.
Tricky Lady
06-09-2004, 18:18
OK. Silly me. Don't know anything about MedMod or WesMod or whateverMod...
I love the kill all prisoners button
I like to use it as an order confirmation button.
I check to see all of my units are doing what I want and assign orders if necessary and then hit that kill all prisoners button as if to confirm the orders and I then repeat.
unfortunately, I started getting morale penalties so I stopped and now only kill prisoners when I wanted some units dead badly or have at least 1 k to get the butcher vice which is pretty sweet.
screw the morale penalty I NEVER take prisoners, I dont want to have to fight the same unit again 2 years later.
I agree with Ragss. Kill them while you have them so you do not have to face them again.
I only do this for strong units like varangians.
pathetic militia and spears actually don't hurt much as they get routed again and again.
I need money to fund the war effort and more troops.
HopAlongBunny
06-10-2004, 01:05
Nightmares http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
If you let those UM units get ransomed, pretty soon you are facing "Captured" "Tortured" "Natural Leaders" that mean it when they say: Never surrender
umm, I doubt those UMs are gonna be commanding.
usually, I let the general get good runner and I ransom the routers I catch.
the rout equally fast the next time around for more cash.
I've yet to see any 0* UMs I ransomed back become a general facing me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
LordKhaine
06-14-2004, 01:39
Quote[/b] (Maedhros @ June 09 2004,05:27)]there is also a vice for killing 2K.
Arghhhhhh, earlier today I got about 1800-1900 captured (and slaughtered). If only my horses werent so tired I could of got 2000 and found out for sure. It was a crazy game though, one of my saharan cavalry units had captured over 600 men. I tell you those units are ideal for running people down http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
As for killing or ransoming... usually I random, but sometimes you just have to go for the kill. Especially if you have 1000+ people. Just dont slaughter too often with a general, or else the negative morale can make an otherwise good general a liability.
Raggs, IMO that is a bad mistake, it could lead to losing a close battle later through a rout.
that's quite true.
having a -3 morale is really bad.
that's enough to nullify a cathedral upgrade.
in a game so focused on morale, this is very bad.
i always kill them.
i never have problems with money.
im such a good economist, i understand how the games economy works and thus use it to my ability.
avoid large wars with 6 factions, that ruins economic prospects unless you are very powerful.
but it does boost your influence when you beat them all up.
thanks, dessa
dessa, really? I'm pretty good with economy too but in those first decade or two, find those cannot finish all builds messages quite often and ransoms are what usually gets that extra bit to make those messages go away.
move quick, if you can just go on a rampage with an army against a weak enemy.(like the french :p) get lots of money from destroying buildings.
build up provinces that are trading or farming rich.
and always try to build massive boat networks.
also if you don't mind the cheating which i do mind, and never do. you could go into the startpos file and change all the factions to a couple of thousand more florins.
in the first couple of decades, just build what you need.
early expansion can only go two ways, right or wrong.
if it goes wrong you have no influence and 5 factions beating you into a bloody pulp no allies and no money.
if it goes right you are significantly better off.
but the economy is easy and worth building up at the start.
these are trading economies.
french-build up flanders and toulouse
Byz-obvious build up constatinople.
turks or egyptians- antioch and tripoli
egyptians- egypt
danes-take swedan and build it up
italians-build up genoa and venice
spainish- cordoba i think
almos- cordoba and build the gold mines in the south and the silver in granada
Hungarians- you will have to build up and economy based on minerals and farming until you can either move south against byz (unwise unless you and everybody else is picking on the poor blokes) or to venice.
polish have a similar problem as hungary.
they either have to move east and just take as much rebel land as possible, or have to take on hungary or germany.
thanks, dessa
I always do.
I blitz nearby factions like there's no tomorrow.
Still, it's quite possible to run into money problems as I like to secure the steppes for steppe heavies, moldavia for avar nobles, and scandanavia for huscarles.
this isn't possible unless you bribe so even in an Italian game on expert, I had a slight money problem.
I prefer to ransom a bit as I once killed all prisoners I ever found and ended with a -3 morale 8* who I hated losing but I had to since the morale hit was a bit too much compounded with some other vices.
you have relized that the higher the command of the general the higher the valour of each unit is.
im not sure but i think the valour morale bonus would out weigh the -3 morale.
thanks, dessa
ive had units go up by 3 valour from a 1* to a 9* general.
Kristaps
06-16-2004, 14:24
Quote[/b] (jadast @ June 09 2004,17:53)]I agree with Ragss. Kill them while you have them so you do not have to face them again.
Well, the morale penalties for repeatedly killing prisoners (by the same general) are pretty severe. I still remember this sad day when my army routed on the sight of the enemy appearing at the horizon... Before that, I was using the "kill prisoners" button similarly to Katank's old ways - to confirm commands on the battlefield...
I believe, you've got two chances with "kill prisoners" before morale penalties kick in: first one is +1 dread and the second one better be 1000+ prisoners so you go to butcher with +3 dread. Anything less than that in the second round or repeated offenses thereafter result in bad morale penalties... I think, the max is -6...
Kristaps
06-16-2004, 14:29
Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ June 15 2004,22:13)]you have relized that the higher the command of the general the higher the valour of each unit is.
im not sure but i think the valour morale bonus would out weigh the -3 morale.
thanks, dessa
ive had units go up by 3 valour from a 1* to a 9* general.
Have you realized that the morale from general's star's apply only if he is near a particular unit? Press F1 before the battle commanded by a 9 star general to see that the default morale of your +4 valor units is the same as for the same units with a 0 star general. The battlefield valor bonus applies only to attack and defense (inconsistently though: but that's another story).
eek, I never blitz. I hate rushing in all its forms in RTS's...
yep. general valor doesn't add to morale.
so what if your unit has more attack and defense if it can't even stay on the field?
people isn't there a vice like blood lver or somrthing that does the job? like +2 dread and no morale penalty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif
Quote[/b] (ah_dut @ June 17 2004,18:29)]people isn't there a vice like blood lver or somrthing that does the job? like +2 dread and no morale penalty http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif
Yes, it's Butcher and gives +3 dread without piety or morale drops. Blood lover gives +3 Dread, -3 Morale, -2 Piety.
gaijinalways
06-18-2004, 02:33
As mentioned in earlier threads, if you need the cash, hold them for ransom. Also too, it's nice to release worthless AI troops back out as they start getting lower and lower morale, so soon you show up and they run (the AI doesn't always notice and will sometimes keep using the same weak general until you kill him).
I find sometimes the ransoms are useful, i.e. trade income has shrunk as other factions decide to backstab you and perhaps your farm income is not as high as you would like.
Avoiding blood lover (I have never gotten it, perhaps just lucky) is a good idea, in principle.
so true.
you are quite right. I was thinking of ransoming as income only in the beginning since trade isn't up and rush needs to be sustained but end game certainly is another situation it could be useful.
if it's a Maignot line with two superpowers in a showdown, you are not going to get much trade. ransoming in connection with pillage and burn can definitely fund your development and destroy the other side's ability to wage war.
for ransoming, I like to go straight for the king and trap him on the strategic map so that he would be captured even if he got off the field.
several ransoms can quickly bankrupt them and help me.
like katank said if I need money to continue the war then I'll let them go... especially if I captured a general and am in terrible need of money then I allow them to be ransomed.
but say its a crusade or Im being attacked by a general of no importance then its better to exectue the however many prisoners so you dont have to deal with them in the next few years... I hate having to fight the same armies over and over again because Im being merciful
lol, a different general has just massacred the pope after he reemereged 3 times in 10 years, he has Gentle Knight which gives -2 dread, and hes still at 6 dread with all his other evil vices, including butcher and secret blood liver http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I wish I had a screen of one of my old generals. The infamous Count of Tripoli from my first Turk campaign. A ghazi general. He worked his way up from rank 1 or so to rank 7 general, had tons of acumen, and about 8 vices/virtues, including the "blood lover". I don't even want to think of how many prisoners he had executed. The man was a beast...when he was alone, he had a valour of upwards of 16. One man wrecking crew http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
i had a valour 0 guy work up to nearly 20.
he also became a 9 star gen eventually from 0
thanks, dessa
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