View Full Version : community splitting patch
LittleGrizzly
06-17-2002, 10:29
even if the patch does make for better gameplay some dont like it dom left because of it!
if everyone switched to 1.03 it would be ok id swop as well and learn to deal with the change but if some r gonna swop and some aint then we'll have a split
explaining to newbies this 1.03 stat swap thing will most likely confuse them and either drive them away or they'll stick with 1.02
some people are sticking with 1.02 anyway and ive noticed that more people have 1.02 (might not b case ive bn away weekend and also what ive noticed)
so all in all if it splits the community it cant b good even if 1.03 made game perfect if it split community i wouldnt like it!
Krasturak
06-17-2002, 12:46
It is so easy to switch between 1.03 and 1.02 ... it's hardly worth worrying about.
Try it and see ... it takes only a few seconds to change with the stat swapper, and you don't even have to leave the lobby.
RageMonsta
06-17-2002, 15:08
Little Grizz..do you really think that Dom left because somebody released unofficial stats?..without testing the stats or waiting to see how many people actually changed over...
if for example you went into game room of 30 layers and you found 15 with 103 and 15 102..then he would have had a case..
he left because he was going back to another game....or he was just bored...and for some reason decided to have a 'swipe' at the stats makers before he left..I mean why bother complaining if your not even here or you you dont even bother to try it.
Monsta likes 103 so much that he finds it hard to play 102 (not because of the skill required) because in Monsta's opinion 102 is not as good...closer inspection will/should reveal this to many....but if pushed I am able to play 102...flick of a button.
So what is best...choice or no choice... in life we fight wars for the right to choose.. here in TW we just fight off 'bitter' people who for some reason decide to attack without thought or reason.
Quote Originally posted by Krasturak:
It is so easy to switch between 1.03 and 1.02 ... it's hardly worth worrying about.
Try it and see ... it takes only a few seconds to change with the stat swapper, and you don't even have to leave the lobby.[/QUOTE]
Sorry Krast, but I have the swapper, all the stuff needed but my stats do not change even when it tells me they have changed.
Because of that I have not bothered to play in the last week cos I havent got the time to mess about with my pc all day just to get a game. Anyway though, that is just me I think, not many others seem to have that problem.
Boromir...
------------------
"Lets Hunt Some Orc"
NinjaKilla
06-17-2002, 15:48
What really pisses me off is that you can go 5 games in a row with peeps dropping cos they got the wrong stats loaded. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif I gonna stick to 1.02 unless people specefy they wanna play 1.03.
------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Yup...I do like the 1.03 but it's indeed not easy to get a big game (1.02 or 1.03) going.
Kas http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
I agree with NK. Its a waste of good playing time restarting games becos of mismatch in stat files, which ultimately kill my playing urge and take away the fun. But I found the 1.03 games fun as long as things run smoothly.
Anyway I'll be playing both as swapping is easy job. Its only the out-of-sync that is troublesome.
------------------
tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
------------------
[This message has been edited by tootee (edited 06-17-2002).]
Konnichiwa,
1. STW will always say 1.02 beta at startup.
2. You need to install to the proper folder. Which is the shogun WE/MI game folder, not necessarily the path suggested by the installer.
------------------
Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
WE/MI was the community splitter. You have two versions of Shogun that have to be played on different servers. Besides that, WE/MI v1.0 had horrible online play balance. The WE/MI v1.03 is closer to what the v1.02 was supposed to be, and you'll find that v1.03 allows more varied tactical gameplay than v1.02. I think the difference is more than sufficient to justify the inconvenience of setting it up, and making sure you have the right stat loaded. So far, it looks like no rules have to be invoked when using v1.03.
There is a double gottcha with the installation of the statswapper. The install is not intelligent enough to find the folder where your WE/MI game is located. It's set to the default folder for a Warloard's Edition install. If you have MI or installed Warlords to a folder other than the default, you have to make that known to the statswapper program during installation in the box provided. If you do not change that destination path, the statswapper install will create the default folder and install itself there. It will appear to be working, but it will actually be moving the stats to a folder that does not contain your WE/MI game. WE/MI will never pick up the new stat.
In addition, WinXP users must download the DOS command choice.com to make the 10xswap.bat program function. Vanja's windows based swapper gets around this problem, and it has another benefit. I find it less confusing to use than the 10xswap.bat because you click on a radial bullet which turns red in order to choose a stat. You can leave the swapper open as you play, and that red bullet is a clear reference to what stat is currently in effect if you happen to forget. You can also easily add new stat sets, and Vanja's swapper reads the new stat's folder name and displays it in the select list.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Yuuki and Tosa san.
I know it is just me that has this problem and I shouldn't taint others view by venting my own frustrations at what is probably a lack of understanding on my part.
You guys have both tried to help me alot as I'm sure you have done to others. Thanks greatly, but you can't teach an old dog (or thick one) new tricks.
I suppose I'm really frustrated as I want to play with the new stats but am not able to at present.
Boromir...
------------------
"Lets Hunt Some Orc"
Orda Khan
06-17-2002, 20:27
I have joined 102 games and I have joined 103 games. I have hosted 103 games and 102 games. What is the problem???
There is no point blaming newbies, the 103 mod, or anything else if games drop. They always have. As for going out of sync because of mismatched stats:-
1. Announce to the foyer what version you are hosting.
2. Password your game as 103 when running these stats. This should make people aware of the version you are using.
3. When joining a game ask what version it is.
This really is so easy to do.
As for splitting the community I really don't understand. Some host high koku, some low and the community has not been split. Hardly anyone hosts a Mongol game - still no split.
So why should another personal choice that is not concrete split the community?
Boromir-San has a problem with 103 granted but I'm sure it could be sorted somehow.
I have explained to quite a few how to work the 103 mod and they all agree it is quick and easy to use.
I don't think for one minute that MTW will have no online problems, we need to lighten up a little.
.........Orda
------------------
" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
I do and dont care! I will adapt to 1.02 or 103 or 1.0???Whatever.
Plat what u want when u want.All things take time,adjust and learn?If not stay with 1.02 its thats what u like.
Or did i hear many moaning about Guns and ASHI???Beening too strong,well this alters a few stats to weaken or should we say balance them out a little better.
Also 1.03 how made the monks how they should be FEARED again. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Anywaz i shall say no more on this matter apart from whatever u ply Have Fun! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:
Little Grizz..do you really think that Dom left because somebody released unofficial stats?..without testing the stats or waiting to see how many people actually changed over...
if for example you went into game room of 30 layers and you found 15 with 103 and 15 102..then he would have had a case..
he left because he was going back to another game....or he was just bored...and for some reason decided to have a 'swipe' at the stats makers before he left..I mean why bother complaining if your not even here or you you dont even bother to try it.
[/QUOTE]
Cheap shot, silly Monsta, those who I was playing with know that I had no intention of going and i love shoggy. However it was getting harder and harder to get a game (for the record I was hosting 30k on hilly maps with no rules, I was never selecting neither guns nor ashi).
this 1.03 thingie added another extra headache and spoilt my gameplay (30k no rules). I come by once a week or so just to check out the situation and do not see any improvements with rooms being at the 15-20 ppl full.
See for yourself if the number of active players made another significant fall since 1.03 release, exactly at the moment when they was supposed to rise, due to the people coming back from the exams.
Things went for worse exactly as I predicted they would. So if you still insist that I left irrelative of the patch... you are mistaken.
And yes, after playing the demo I can say that I am coming back for MTW and the Great Rata is going to carry on.
Regards, Ryurik
LittleGrizzly
06-18-2002, 02:57
we have a few different reactions see what i mean split community im really annoyed
i appreciate the efforts and im sure its bvery good but i refuse to swop 2 it bcause of the effect it has
Krasturak
06-18-2002, 03:02
Quote Originally posted by Boromir:
Sorry Krast, but I have the swapper, all the stuff needed but my stats do not change even when it tells me they have changed.
... Anyway though, that is just me I think, not many others seem to have that problem.
Boromir...[/QUOTE]
If you can post more details, maybe we can help you get it set up.
Are you on WIN XP? Also, search your computer for the file 'choice.com'. If this is missing the statswapper does not function correctly.
Maybe there is something else; please let others help you.
RageMonsta
06-18-2002, 04:03
I was tempted to say 'look what happens when the door is left open.old rubbish blows back in'...but didnt Dom.well I did but not with the same intent..
So the new stats are to blame for the drop in numbers in the game room....people were so devastated that others decided to exercise their right to do something different that they refused point blank to enter TW server...'damn them all those mod making hell hounds'...
As pointed out...the MI server split the game at first....70-100 became 35-50...the new stats (102) yes better than orginal but turned alot of the 'veteran' hardcore away...and we gained the 'come now and again'..'arcade' types..
Now if the developers were able to have created 103 in the patch.the likes of Fear for example would still be here...well at least more of them and more often.
But the simple fact is...when the server swapped over we fell to 40 max a night..and the game itself suffered because the tactical aspect was lost due the 102 stats....hence the age range fell..because it was less suited to the 'wargamer' and more suited to the C&C Red Alert type..and no offence to our younger players as there are some fine fellas but younger players tend to move from one game to another more than the older dedicated folk..the type who played Amiga wargames and dreamed of STw.
You have the right to say whatever you like...but it seemed clear that as a passing shot you aimed at the patch....why not just...'bye' see you all soon...you complain about divide...you helped create one.
Just think of it like this....we would all still be walking instead of inventing the wheel..if when asked to try something considered improved.......we decided to sit in our caves and not dare change.
If your concern was not the stats and the fact that some may not have them...you should really have promoted the stats....then more could choose and no divide would have happened...even though I dont really see one anyway......KEYWORD- swapper...means you can swap/change/choose.
But good luck to you....and when you come back and play MTW...dont download a map incase others may not have it....dont get the patches incase newbies dont have it...and we will see who is divided.
Reply if you wish..but is there any point since you have left?...oh no your still here..oh no you left..oh no your.no...yep..no..errrm bye.hello.....no hold on..welcome back?
Quote But good luck to you....and when you come back and play MTW...dont download a map incase others may not have it....dont get the patches incase newbies dont have it...and we will see who is divided.[/QUOTE]
-Rage Monsta
Ok Monsta. I play Rogue Spear pretty much, and you can be damn certain that if you have no mods - some of the games will be unavailale. But atleast when you try to join a modded game it tells you that you don't have it, and it sends you back to the server. That isn't the case here! The game simply goes in and drops you. If I was a newbie, walked into 5 games unknowing of the mod, dropped all 5 times... I'd be thinking "Bloody hell this game sux!" I'd soon be quitting before I'd even played.
------------------
The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity"
Orda Khan
06-18-2002, 04:36
I think our problem is MTW!
Everybody is eager to get it.
With the demo you can almost taste it.
Is it possible this has taken the shine off MI a little?
..........Orda
------------------
" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."
Monsta, I am not sure if you are as dumb as you make out to be... I don't care whether the stats have been good for the "community"... which IMHO they did not. Besides the definition of community is rather unclear.
All I care about is that they screwed up my gameplay and thus I didn't feel like staying and adapting to them.
I do not care whether you agree with me, all I am saying is that I am not staying to play those mods and if you do not feel like you miss me - congratulatios.
As to come-left-come suggestion I am pretty much off MI till MTW comes along.
And to make my point as clear as possible, 1.03 and 1.03 alone made me quit, not other game nor anything else, if you lack the ability to comprehend this simple point, well, too bad, seek proffessional advice.
Regards, Ryurik
LittleGrizzly
06-18-2002, 06:21
lol @ dom
monsta i think u can b a bit harsh try to calm that temper down the smallest comment seems to set u off
the difference btween patches and this is an officail patch every1 gets a unofficial one like 1.03 is gotten by a few some try and fail other just plain dont want it and some think im not staying here
i appraciate effort made by ppl but its split community im sure newbies bn put off
soon after it came out i made 2 4v4's in each one a person went out of sync im guessing this was due to 103 which annoyed me and the other 6 ppl in the game
i did ask several times all in my game got 1.02 but still that happened im loyal but still this is putting me off the game a bit
(not saying im gonna quit but its less enjoyable)
RageMonsta
06-18-2002, 08:02
At last we have the truth..its your game play...well you did not point that out when you first complained (clearly ..do we really need to find the original thread?).....you maintained here and in the game room that the stats were to suit Rages et al...and it was also the split of the players that hurt your feelings/ethics..whatever was damaged...thats better...but still it seems rather strange that you decided to leave so soon...was it the masses of 103 players around?....was it the fact that you could not change back from 103 once you selected it?.....why not instead of jumping overboard at the first sign of something that does not 'suit' your needs stay and help build things to a greater level..but as a pioneer for free choice these questions mean nothing...you do as you feel..but leave others alone to do the same...thank you Dom.
But be honest Dom and without pointing the finger at the stats...(which is the meat of my beef against your post)...why dont you just say...'shit I am bored..cya in MTW'...
Soul those who host 103 respect (from my experience) those who may not be aware the game is 103...this is also a way to promote/make aware of the stats existance..most games are passed with the stats number...warnings are given.....players even go for a quick 1v1 and count the number of cav in mongol cav unit to check....this only needs to be done once....then you and the others involved are aware of the stats being used....takes about as long as giving out rules like 4 max...etc..I do understand what you say about warnings in other games...but simple communication is all that is needed...often lost in this type of experience.
I would even say make a 103 room ...but this would just add to the seperation of players..so the way it stands at the moment seems to be fine.....I know who has 'swapper' and will ask if other are willing to go 'crazzzzzy' and try it...once established its just play....if your unwilling to join a 103 game..you always have the comps to select..and plenty of newbies to introduce to the game on a 102 level....maybe when they learn or get bored of the gun battles they too will see the light and play the more tactical 'wargamer' 103...but again may I point out.
IT IS A SWAPPER....YOU CAN CHANGE WHENEVER YOU FEEL LIKE IT.
this issue is going around and around....
I like ketchup on food..you may not...so dont condemn the sauce or pour it on your food.. but this doesnt mean I wont ask you if you have ever tried ketchup and its fine delights....or should I keep all the best sauce to myself?..any clearer for people not sure whether to experiment....and venture into pastures new?
edit- btw grizz.not sure how long you have played but going out of sync dates back to the original 101 of STW and is not solely related just to people unable to say..'hey is this 102 or 103'.
[This message has been edited by RageMonsta (edited 06-18-2002).]
LittleGrizzly
06-18-2002, 08:08
ok monsta what is with ur great hatred of dom!
monsta hmm yes but out of sync isnt a often occurence twice in 2 games hmm
its not the fact u found something u like its just u got this great new sauce but there less food for everyone !
Quote Originally posted by RageMonsta:
At last we have the truth..its your game play...well you did not point that out when you first complained (clearly ..do we really need to find the original thread?).....you maintained here and in the game room that the stats were to suit Rages et al...and it was also the split of the players that hurt your feelings/ethics..whatever was damaged...thats better...but still it seems rather strange that you decided to leave so soon...was it the masses of 103 players around?....was it the fact that you could not change back from 103 once you selected it?.....why not instead of jumping overboard at the first sign of something that does not 'suit' your needs stay and help build things to a greater level..but as a pioneer for free choice these questions mean nothing...you do as you feel..but leave others alone to do the same...thank you Dom.
But be honest Dom and without pointing the finger at the stats...(which is the meat of my beef against your post)...why dont you just say...'shit I am bored..cya in MTW'...
[/QUOTE]
Monsta, I greatly doubt your ability to read the actual lines rather than between them.
I am not sure what original thread you are refering to. It was not my intention to discuss anything about the patch in the thread that I announced my retirement, and why should I?
Here I voiced my concerns, restraining somewhat in my criticisms but all I got was the "take it or leave it" message from Yuuki, so I left.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003316.html
I had worries about the patch ever since your Gun Monkeys Beware post, which seemed to suggest that the community will be pushed towards new way of playing with the modders preferences in mind. That doesn't mean Rage clan, since it is not the "Rage" set of stats.
Noone asked for a popular opinion in the true "community" spirit. And they should have asked.
As to why don't I just say I am bored... I am not but with all the problems that playing shogun already gave me, like drops, lack of players, bad connection, ppl not joining my games and spammers, now, the stats, that I do not like, being pressed upon the community were the last drop, so the answer why not to say that I am just bored and that's because it's not true. I am not bored with shoggie as a game but with the poor quality of mutiplayer experience being further on decrease I am not staying. And the 1.03 stats were what killed it off.
And I am also puzzled why would you try to prove otherwise. Especially since it is the matter that you cannot possibly prove, only try to speculate about.
As to our conversation in the foyer: it consisted of 3 messages in the chat in which i said that 1.03 sucks and that it was made to the liking of the minority modders, which meant it was bias.
Regards, Ryurik
Quote Originally posted by Krasturak:
If you can post more details, maybe we can help you get it set up.
Are you on WIN XP? Also, search your computer for the file 'choice.com'. If this is missing the statswapper does not function correctly.
Maybe there is something else; please let others help you.
[/QUOTE]
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif... been there done that Krast.
Thanks for the offer of help, I think maybe i need to work out exactly where the file needs to go. I am a simpleton, therefore place in main game folder means not alot to me if someone says it needs to go to (eg)c/programfiles/totalwar etc etc that will do it.
As I say Being a simpleton is my biggest frustration!!!
Boromir...
------------------
"Lets Hunt Some Orc"
RageMonsta
06-18-2002, 16:41
Heres a deal...we end this becuase its going around in circles and ..you leave the other people to try the stats for themselves...I dont want to start poiting out holes in you attack...just so you can do the same with mine....its wasting time and space...
little Grizz I dont hate Dom..how could I we have never met...
BORO...stick it in shogun folder with all the other big yellow folders...
Konnichiwa Boromir san,
We can't tell you were your shogun game folder is, but we can help you to find it.
I don't like to bury frequently used programs in C:\program files\SoftWare Publisher\Software Developer\Software family\Special Thanks to\Title. I prefer the short E:\STW, D:\RTCW.
Best thing you can do now is grab pen & paper.
In Win 98, probably also in WinXP, one can right click with the mouse on the my computer icon. There's also a find in the startmenu. Select find at your computer (computers can have more than one 'harddisks'). The file you search for is shogun.ver. Write down the path were it's installed (for example d:\Games\Shogun).
Use this path to install the swapper to, you can either type it directly (typos!!!) or use the browse button (..). I recommend the latter method.
Vanya's Windows Swapper might be an excellent alternative. Make sure you download the 2.3 mb full install. It contains all required files and a html readme with pictures which should help you setup.
------------------
Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Dom,
Do you have any idea how many people won't join a 30K game? No vet will join a 30K game. You split yourself off from the community by hosting games like that, and that's why you were having a hard time finding opponents. Who exactly did you loose as an opponent due to v103? My statement "No one is being forced to use v103" is not a take it or leave it statement. You are not being forced to use v103 as you claimed in that post. That's the comment I was responding to. You make it sound like it's easy to get a v103 game. It's not. It's more difficult than you getting an opponent for your 30k v102 game.
I don't fault you for leaving the game because of the difficuly in playing online. That's CA/DT/EA's doing, and don't expect MTW to be a whole lot better. It's not v103 that spoiled your fun.
MizuYuuki
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.