Is there any point to building this stuff?

[soibean]

I enjoy building up the empire from the ground up, meaning Early period and working my way from there
but as time goes on and you finally get to the Fortress with everything taking 10+ turns and whatnot it gets a little lengthy.
What Im wondering is - Do the buildings such as College of Surgeons and all the others like it that list no effects or give off any units... do they actually DO anything or is it just a waste of time building them. I noticed another thread where it said building a university would increase acument in that one province... which is nice I guess, but thats what I mean... do any of those have any positive effect

[gaijinalways]

Well, those building do have a positive effect, though as your post seems to imply, the effect may be limited to the province with the building in it. Also, some people have finished the campaign before you might get to building these advanced buildings, so it perhaps defeats the purpose of possible benefits you might gain by upgrading your castle unless you are doing it to gain new units or added valor/armor/attack etc.

I generally have found I don't build them, yet right now, I am playing a BYZ GA expert level early start game, and I am in the process of building those advanced structures )the first one at the moment (..military academy, university, and another one) in Constanople.

[nick_maxell]

College of Surgeons and University don t give you titles as other buildings but university is required for the Academy you will need for units like JHI. I m not sure but I think the surgeons gives you some happiness in all provinces - check out froggies guide maybe it is there what it does.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

nick

edit: after rereading your post: the other buildings (Cathedral/Grand Mosque,Chancellery,Constable, Admirality and Marshalls) give titles you can give to generals to boost accumen, command and loyalty which can be given to generals already beeing govs.

So build them to get some 9* generals or 9 accumen govs

[HopAlongBunny]

Cathedral or Grand Mosque is prereq to build University.

University allows you to build College of Surgeons and Military Academy.

Military Academy is needed for the high-end Turkish units; some say that it also improves discipline in units...no idea if that is true or not.

College of Surgeons is supposed to give all units an increase in health, and raise overall happiness.

On other things: Fortress is required to build Master Foundry => Culverns and Seige Cannons; with the proper Gunsmith allows you to build Organ Guns and that other lil gun...whose name escapes me atm :p

[motorhead]

Muslims can't build University. For muslims Grand Mosque is the only pre-requisite for MilAcad or College of Surgeons.

In VI, MilAcad specifically says +1 discipline

College of Surgeons gives +40 happiness and +1 health to every unit. Since health/3 = hitpoints, only a unit with something like Mighty Warrior (+5 health) will get any benefit from CoS. CoS is also supposed to reduce/eliminate plagues and extend the life of your ruler a few years.

I have serious doubts that University gives more acumen. In the build files, MilAcad specifically has a UPGRADE_DISCIPLINE(1), but University doesn't have a corresponding 'upgrade acumen' line. The only thing that indicates University may bestow some acumen is the in-game building description. These same in-game descriptions also describe Trebizond Archers as having compound bows - which they don't, so take what the descriptions say with a grain of salt.

[soibean]

wow that explains it all then
I hope that Rome Total war busts out some advanced buildings with advanced units and advances attached like the Military Academy does for the Turks if you get what I mean.

[Blodrast]

Motorhead:

I agree with you about MilAcad. I know what it says. However, I think I read in the manual or somewhere that what it actually does is make your troops more disciplined. It does NOT mean that all troops produced there will have the disciplined status. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

My question is: do you know what it DOES mean then ?
what is the meaning of a troop that's half-disciplined ?
i mean, i imagine that a troop's discipline level is just checked against a threshold; if it's over, act this way; if it's below, act differently...
does it apply the same to all units ?

[katank]

It does.

I think it's not enough to give units the disciplined tag but moves it along the threashhold and likely reduces the probability that your troops would decide to impetuosly charge.

it's still fuzzy though and I rather build things like armorer and metalsmiths that have very clear effects.

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (motorhead @ June 14 2004,05:15)]Muslims can't build University. For muslims Grand Mosque is the only pre-requisite for MilAcad or College of Surgeons.
Thank you for correcting me...gotta go back and play the Turks again (obviously been way too long) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[motorhead]

I agree with Katank - the actual effects of UPGRADE_DISCIPLINE(1) are too fuzzy. How much discipline does a naturally disciplined unit have? 4-6-8??? There's simply too much guessing.

As to what discipline does, from Eat Cold Steel (dev):

Quote[/b] ]> Military Academy?
It gives discipline +1
*discipline: what does it do? hav't seen it in the unit stats...
Discipline affect how unit hold their formation in battle.
Is the +1 disc from MilAcad enough to kick in the full effects of a disciplined unit that's described in FBE's Guide? Less likely to chase after routers when in the impetuous morale state, less morale effect from general's death, less morale effect when lesser units rout. I don't know the answer to this.

[Mablung]

[quote=motorhead,June 14 2004,05:15]
College of Surgeons gives +40 happiness and +1 health to every unit. Since health/3 = hitpoints, only a unit with something like Mighty Warrior (+5 health) will get any benefit from CoS. CoS is also supposed to reduce/eliminate plagues and extend the life of your ruler a few years.

Motor, not to be pedantic but Might Warrior gives + 10 health so there will be no bonus. Great Warrior gives + 5 health so there will be a bonus. Also Legendary Warrior + 20 health will also gain a bonus although IIRC on Geoffrey de Charny of the French recieves this virtue.

[Ludens]

I remember from old STW that the Drill Dojo improved discipline too. The effect was that the troops were more likely to rally, and would keep to their formation better. Perhaps the Military Acedemy is the MTW version of the Drill Dojo?

I certainly hope that the MA doesn't add the disciplined tagg to all units. I don't want disciplined peasants: they will only scare my other disciplined troops when they rout.

[katank]

don't discount peasants

I remember in a rebel game, I had El Cid who I built to a 9* and total of +6 morale V&Vs.

the peasants under him fought like devils and beat armies twice their size.

true, the enemy fielded 0* gens and I did have jinette backup.

regardless, peasants can be ok.

[Blodrast]

ok, cool, thanks for the answers. i was just hoping that someone had actual figures, or figured from experience whether that +1 to discipline actually shows on the battlefield...
i mean, i think i've used it, but haven't noticed any improvement...true that i wasn't testing for that thing in particular, though.

oh, and i reckon from what you're saying that you didn't find any clear use of it in the game's text files...

thank you guys