At war, and how to avoid it.

[Gith]

So I'm around 1165 in my German campaign on Hard. And all the times I've played the campaign, this problem always gets me. I get into too many wars with too many factions. Usually this comes of them backstabbing me, and then me counter attacking and holding my ground. I don't like going all out attack because I don't want to get excommunicated (maybe that isn't a big deal, but I like avoiding it). So it usually ends up with me at war with 4+ factions with 1 ally, if I'm lucky. And then, I can never get the ceasfire/alliance proposals to work out.

Cliffnotes: I suck at diplomacy and end up fighting everyone, while making nothing florins wise and living in a constant state of fighting/trying to avoid being backstabbed.

Here's an image for an example:

http://webpages.charter.net/brayn314/at_war.JPG

[Gith]

gah. Image didn't work. Lets hope this one does.

Also, any way to edit posts? Am I just blind?

http://webpages.charter.net/bryan314/at_war.JPG

[Pyrit]

Well, playing the conquer the world campaign (or so it looks), it is difficult to avoid lots of conflict. I would just suggest to try expanding one direction first, or when in conflict concentrate on completely domination every aspect. Don't just trade border territories, drive straight for the king. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Cazbol]

Well your empire seems to be in pretty good shape considering you have most of western Europe and not too many border provinces to defend. Start by securing peace witht the French. You do that by attacking them in Wessex and then following up until they're annihilated. Do the same to the Aragonese and then the Spanish. If the pope gives you any trouble send 10 assassins at him simultaneously. If the troops at the bottom of the screen are yours, then you might want to consider teching up a bit.

[TonkaToys]

Quote[/b] (Gith @ June 16 2004,06:17)]Also, any way to edit posts? Am I just blind?
Welcome to the org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

You can edit posts once you've been promoted to Senior Patron (should not be too long).


Re: constant battles... I believe I read somewhere that if you ensure you don't have any land borders with another faction, and that you don't have a fleet in the same sea area as that faction, then they will call a ceasefire.

So... you should pick a faction that shares one border with you, smash them on the border, then withdraw. The rebels that appear will act as a buffer, allowing you to make peace.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

I haven't tested it but I've seen it written here, by people far more experienced than me.

Just re-examined your camp-map and looks to me like you don't need advice You own Europe.

I read somewhere else that once you get big, all the factions gang up on you anyway.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[motorhead]

HRE always seem to have a difficult time with multiple wars. i'd guess you've got 10+ border provs, which is going to put you in harms way quite often.

- never trust your allies. Always keep strong armies on your border with them. weak armies invite attack. Always keep your coasts protected by ships - if you leave an open coast your allies will often jump at the opening and invade a backwater prov.

- as you get larger/stronger, it's always more difficult to get ceasefires/alliances. that's just the way the game goes.

- automatic ceasefires are your friend: So long as you don't have a land border with them, simply withdraw your ships from any sea that touches their provs. Make sure none of their boats are sitting in seas touching your provs, and don't have boats in the same sea. Instant ceasefire

- tonkatoys suggestion of smash-withdraw can work, but be careful - you may end up triggering a loyalist uprising instead of plain rebels.

[TonkaToys]

Quote[/b] (motorhead @ June 16 2004,11:07)]- tonkatoys suggestion of smash-withdraw can work, but be careful - you may end up triggering a loyalist uprising instead of plain rebels.
Good point... like I say, I've not had to use this so am unaware of the nuances that more experienced players can bring to our attention.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif (heh... first time I used this smilie).

[HopAlongBunny]

You look in good shape :)

I second the suggestion to just roll-up everything through Spain. Only other thing to pay attention to is your fleet. You can't be secure until you own every sea area you are connected to.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (motorhead @ June 16 2004,05:07)]HRE always seem to have a difficult time with multiple wars.
Amen.

[RedKnight]

Right, if I can throw my two cents in... as motor and others said, keep strong border armies because they will attack anyone weak. That can't be emphasized strongly enough. Another way to say it is, you are practically begging for another enemy if you expand so quickly that you can't put strong border armies anywhere it matters... if it's becoming too much, slow down even if it means missing a nice opportunity. (Then again, maybe you CAN handle it... look how much of the map you're holding)

Germany is especially hard pressed at first, because it has little or no coastal ports. Sea trade is where the big money is. While you have many coast provinces right now, I wouldn't be surprised if you're way behind on the navy curve (given that it's 1165; most of your time spent expanding recently, not much time holding coasts and building fleets). Thus you probably also have a low average income per province. And making a fleet may well be an uphill battle... Italy, Spain, and France are liable to have some ships out by 1165 (and Italy and Spain will build huge fleets, if allowed to go unchecked for many many decades). At higher difficulty levels, it takes 2 to 3 times the ship power (number and strength) to be pretty sure of navy victories. (Sure, it's unfair, but a human's skill at making sea trade money is unfair, too.) Also, if they rule the seas, they can land at will, which HUGELY increases headaches about defense. So if their ships are mortally harassing yours, try very hard to make a few uber ship stacks that can take out enemies for sure, sea lane by sea lane, as opposed to losing most of your solo sailors. (Your solo ships will be giving him stars when he kills them Try to reverse that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif ) Otherwise you should be trying to build very wisely so as to conserve cash... build the best (fastest ammortizing) farms only; build low money-over-time buildings; use cheap units like archers as much as possible... and pump, pump, pump out ships (it only takes a Keep to make both a shipwright and a dockyard) toward good trade partners IF you can find any, lol W00t, you've got a lot of enemies there... maybe Egypt in the mideast?

Hope this helps. Keep on kicking butt http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Gith]

Thanks for all the advice

A major problem being, as was so nicely pointed out, is that I have too many border provinces. This has always been hard for me to avoid with the Germans. I'll smash the italians, turks, and poles (not at war yet, but I can see it coming...) as swiftly and mercilessly as possible. The spaniards and aragonese arent' a big deal. They invade every dozen years or so, and I send them packing. Same with the French. It is mostly my eastern borders that worry me, so I'll see what I can do there.

Also, thanks for the naval advice, I'll get working on building up the navy as soon as possible.

My favorite tactic in the entire game (especially this campaign) thus far has been to lure the enemy monarch and as many of his sons into a battle as possible, and try and do away with the whole bloody family line in one fell swoop. I can probably work that against the Italians and poles.

Thanks again for the advice.

[soibean]

Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ June 16 2004,03:36)] If the pope gives you any trouble send 10 assassins at him simultaneously. If the troops at the bottom of the screen are yours, then you might want to consider teching up a bit.
10 assassins?
why would you wanna do that? normally whenever I send a huge force of special agents like that after some one they go into an enemy territory instead of traveling in my own safe territory and get killed right away or the instant they get to the target...

[The_Emperor]

There is an easy way to limit the number of factions having a go at you...

Attack the French with a Hitler style Blitzgrieg (hey it worked didn't it?)

Should you manage to drive Westwards and gain the French mainland all the way to the ocean, you then limit yourself to just Three Border provinces on that side of the map. (Wessex, Aragon, Castile or Navarre).

France has very rich provinces, meaning they will be a major thorn in your side when they become established (and they will once they deal with the English).

Follwing on from then it doesn't take too long to secure the British isles and Scandinavia leaving you with the Eastern front and a few chokepoints in the south with Italy and Spain.

[LestaT]

I agree with The Emperor. France should be dealt first when playing HRE. At first I was tempted to go to the east and concentrate my forces there as they seems to be easier pickings but if left to the French getting stronger, sooner or later they will come down to you once the English has been contained.

[katank]

umm, he already dealt with France.

your mistake is to not sack Italy fast.

I blitz Italy and Danes immediately.

Danes are land bridge to scandanavia and will eventually attack with endless RKs so kill them before the stockpile grows.

Italy is just a dagger at your underbelly and part of HRE GA as well as ship producers and valuable provinces.

Your Eastern Border should be 4. Serbia, Hungary, Poland, Prussia.

this should be fairly secure.

as HRE, think of it as a blessing that you have much room to expand.

If you have a large navy, just smash your way through.

Wipe out French in Britain and Smash through Iberia and North Africa with a static eastern front after achieving 4 borders.

curl up form the Middle East and as a pincer smash through the East.

[Cazbol]

The problem with starting with Italy is that it increases your number of border provinces which isn't really what HRE needs the most. That's why I advocate starting with France, taking Friesland, Flanders and thus reducing the number of border provinces.

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (soibean @ June 17 2004,03:28)]
Quote[/b] (Cazbol @ June 16 2004,03:36)] If the pope gives you any trouble send 10 assassins at him simultaneously. If the troops at the bottom of the screen are yours, then you might want to consider teching up a bit.
10 assassins?
why would you wanna do that? normally whenever I send a huge force of special agents like that after some one they go into an enemy territory instead of traveling in my own safe territory and get killed right away or the instant they get to the target...
Try it. Send 10 assassins after the pope. They'll obviously go through enemy territory since the pope can't be on your territory. Many of these 10 assassins will die, but not all of them, and chances are that one of them will succeed.

Send all the assassins from the same province at the same time so they all arrive at the target province simultaneously so the watch towers can't deal with them all at once.

[katank]

starting with Italy doens't really increase your border count as I typically end up taking Rome and crippling the Pope so that he's no longer a threat in Papal States.

I also take Naples and sometimes Sicily which means 1 land border or none

otherwise, in the South, you have 4 borders