Real Golden Horde? For historians

[NewJeffCT]

As all of us MTW veterans know, the Golden Horde hits the map in 1230 with a huge horde of Mongol Heavy Cavalry & Horse Archers. Depending on your status and what faction you play, the Horde can be a dangerous foe for a long time, or eliminated pretty quickly...

However, in real life, the Horde was quite succesful, if I recall. What prevented them from advancing even further into Europe was when the Khan got drunk at a celebration, fell of his horse & broke his neck. The Horde then "degenerated into a minor faction" as we say in MTW terms.

This is not quite game related, but how would history have changed in the Khan had not fallen off his horse and survived to a later death, be it natural or something else?

Any speculation? Could any army in Europe at that time stood against them?

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

At that time probably not. Europe was a divided old place but i just couldn't see the Mongols conquoring all of Europe. No doubt many will disagree with me but i truely believe they could't.

If the invasion was say 110 years after, then i think it would have been a different story to be quite honest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

[Ludens]

This has been discussed extensively in the monastery. I can provide you with two links to discussions there. Especially the latter contains much information about the Mongols.
1) Mongolian Question (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=14650;st=0)
2) Best Military Tactic to Defeat the Mongols (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=15004;st=0)

As for my opinion: to take Europe, they would have needed to do a lot of siege work. I do not know if the equipment they brought with them was able to take on thirteenth century castles. But even if it could, they had to take many. Too many, in my opinion. Either they should have found a way to avoid it, or they would have lost because it took too long.

The best way to defeat the Mongols is not to fight them, but to hold onto what they can't take.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ June 18 2004,19:13)]This has been discussed extensively in the monastery. I can provide you with two links to discussions there. Especially the latter contains much information about the Mongols.
1) Mongolian Question (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=14650;st=0)
2) Best Military Tactic to Defeat the Mongols (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=15004;st=0)

As for my opinion: to take Europe, they would have needed to do a lot of siege work. I do not know if the equipment they brought with them was able to take on thirteenth century castles. But even if it could, they had to take many. Too many, in my opinion. Either they should have found a way to avoid it, or they would have lost because it took too long.

The best way to defeat the Mongols is not to fight them, but to hold onto what they can't take.
sorry Ludens but on this rare occasion, i think you're wrong (i might well be of course) but the mongols sacked the Khwarzm (sp?) who had much larger fortresses than any europeans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif