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Nowake
06-19-2004, 08:22
I decided to raise this thread in order to give you all an overview over the dacian military as it is known today. It was inspired, as the title shows, by Psycho's thread on the celtic units, hope he won't mind me using the title. Anyone is of course free to add his comments and ideeas.

The comments and sugestions seen in this thread are in fact part of a bigger project that would go over all dacian civilisation, complete with in-depth historical references - this project was meant for the Europa Barbarorum initiative. Due to numerous exams and other problems, as this is my senior year in highschool, I won't be able to start working on it - even if I already gathered all the info together - untill three weeks from now, so I thought I'd give this small, more independent chapter, a sole thread. My sources consist in works by both foreign and romanian historians; there are many informations unknown to the western public, as the somewhat genetic stubborness and national pride residing in the heads of many of our historians makes them look upon translating their works and publishing abroad as unnecesary; we romanians are sometimes way overconfident, thinking that all others should recognise our valour from the start. Whenever it was the case, I quoted ancient sources also.



Generally, the weaponry depicted here is easily recognisable, but there are some exceptions: the dracones, the sica, the large oval shield, helmets, and the falx, even if this is already known to all of you; there would also be some different type of arrow used by the dacians, with spines and the like, but I'm not clear about it, have only two sources looking into it, so I'll bring it up only if I'm able to get a closer perspective over its particularities.

Before I give you some descriptions, other two terms are not clear: comati and tarabostes. Although there is more to be said, its simpler to say that comati were the free men - many of them traders (the dacian wine and honey were famed) - while the tarabostes formed the nobility. The first did not covered their heads, never, not even in battle, while the second would wear a pileus or helmet. It was surely a matter of religion, as the dacians were incredibly wealthy: Trajan took back to Rome 168.000 kg pure gold and 331.000 kg silver, not to mention all other spoils of war and huge quantities of bronze; this was the greatest treasure ever to be captured by the romans. On a separate note, regarding the aspect of the dacian warrior, it must be said that they had no tattoes on their bodies, these being reserved only for slaves.

Some tidbits of info over religious fanaticism: they were seen by the greeks and romans as one of the most religious people. They believed in immortality. They gave feasts and rejoyced at every funeral, as they considered the dead was going to their god, Zalmoxe, where he would have supreme happines. Every 3-4 years, in each community, a young vigorous man was impaled into spears, after their wishes would be made clear to him. Thus, the young man was honoured to transmit these to Zalmoxes. If he didn't die immediatly, he was dishonoured because they considered Zalmoxe was not pleased with him, so they would send someone else. When clouds were covering the sky they shot arrows at them, to help their god battle the darkness.



Dracones: the dacians used dracones as their standards and as somekind of psychological weapon. This standard/flag is of particular interest, as according to Strabo, the original name of the Dacians was daoi. A tradition preserved by Hesychius informs us that daos was the Phrygian word for "wolf.' P. Kretschmer had explained daos by the root *dhäu, "to press, to squeeze, to strangle."' Among the words derived from this root we may note the Lydian Kandaules, the name of the Thracian war god, Kandaon, the Illyrian dhaunos (wolf), the god Daunus, and so on. The city of Daous-dava, in Lower Moesia, between the Danube and Mount Haemus, literally meant "village of wolves. Formerly, then, the Dacians called themselves "wolves" or "those who are like wolves," who resemble wolves. The dacians had strong totemic ties with the wolves. They attached to a spear shaft a metal piece in the shape of a wolf's head with gaping jaws. To the rear of the wolf's head a piece of silk or other material was fixed, its shape like a wind-sock one sees at airfields. This contraption when waved gave out a howling or whistling sound, like the howl of a wolf. Together, many such wolf heads are said to have sounded like a pack of howling wolves. Depictions of the dracones can be seen to this day carved in great detail on Trajan's Column in Rome. Though it is doubtful how effective it was against such a disciplined force as the roman army, one can only imagine the effect it had over the moral of other barbarians, especially in the dense forested areas of Dacia and its foggy mountains, suited for the ambushing tactics favoured by the dacian tribes. These Dracones should really be depicted as the faction's flag/distinctive simbol, and not the circular heraldry which has no particulary meaning for the dacians. Dacian auxiliary cohorts, numerii, recruited in the roman army, stationed in Britain - like cohors I Aelia Dacorum miliaria, with its garison on the british limes, at Amboglanna - brought the flag with them, and this is the direct ancestor of the dragon depicted on the flag of Wales. Of course, it must be said that the romans adopted the standard themselves in 2nd century AD, so the source of inspiration is relative.

http://www.fectio.org.uk/groep/draco9.jpg
http://www.fectio.org.uk/groep/draco22.jpg



Sica
http://cheiron.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~trajan/images/hi/2.63.h.jpg

Large Oval Shield: generally, the dacians carried a flat wooden shield 4 to 5 feet tall, oval in shape, based on the celtic design. It was covered in leather (to protect the wood from warping). Riveted to the center of the shield face there appeared an iron or bronze hemisphere, or curved plate. This protected the shield hand. This metal boss could also be used offensively when punched. The shield graphics painted on by the Dacians tended to have a vine and floral theme. Dacian shields, as shown on most of the carvings, are heavily decorated with floriate, braided, geometric and planetary designs, as well as the ancient Thracian shield known as the Pelta (this symbol is used in normal and distorted form). These shields are very large and, it would appear from the carvings, flat, the patterns being in proud relief to facilitate periodic painting. The bosses are hemispherical with round boss plates, both being decorated. The exceptions are examples which are covered in a scale pattern. Another example of an unusual Dacian design is found on an oval shield carried by a man in Dacian costume on another Trajanic relief which was moved to the Arch of Constantine. It has four monster-headed trumpets radiating from the central boss, and two Celtic-type torques of twisted metal which, together with the monster trumpets shown in groups all over the pedestal, may illustrate Celtic influence.

Roman carring dacian shields as trophies:
http://mandarb.net/virtual_gallery/media/sculptures/painted/dacian_trophy_painted.jpg


Helmets: the dacian helmet design was influenced heavily from the East. The more wealthy soldiers often wore Phrygian style helmets. These were characterized by a foreward facing knobby projection at the top. Their allies, the sarmatians, were fond of dome shaped helmets formed from several strips of metal welded together. Presumably, this helmet could also have been worn by the dacians.

DACIAN HELMET MADE COMPLETELY FROM GOLD (http://www.geocities.com/cogaionon/large/l96.htm)


Note: All units have standard bearers carrying Dracones.


Comati Spearmen/Warband
good morale, good valour, expert at hiding in forests, sapping ability
(long hair, beard, wears no helmet, long brown tunic, baggy trousers in the same colour, shoes, medium spear, siccae, large oval shield with intriquate drawings)

These men form the bulk of the dacian forces. They are valorous warriors that form a very flexible and versatile force on the battlefield. The dacian army is a rough terrain army that used the hilly, wooded countryside of Dacia to good advantage. Nevertheless, even focusing on hit-and-run tactics, these dacian warriors may form a resolute shield wall if forced into defensive positions. They can be recruited in all dacian territories.


Dacian Falxmen/Warband
extremly high morale, hardy, expert at hiding in forests
(long hair, beard, bare-chested, arm guards, baggy browm trousers, shoes, falx)

The falxmen contingents comprise resolute warriors, well aware of their role on the battlefield as shock troops. The roman historian Fronto, writing about the parthian campaign of Trajan, noted: "he went to war with experimented soldiers who despised the parthians, our enemies, and couldn't care less about the arrows of these after the horrible wounds inflicted upon them by the curved swords of the dacians" (Principia Historiae, II). The valour of these warriors was confirmed when, in the second dacian war, the roman soldiers adopted another types of armour, helmets, greaves and armguards, just in order to protect themselves from the falxmen. They can be recruited in all dacian territories.


Comati Highlanders/Warband
impetuous, above average valour, expert at hiding in forests
(long hair, long beard, bare-chested, armlets, baggy brown trousers, shoes, bow, quiver of arrows hung off left hip, long celtic sword)
Coming from the dacian mountain tribes, these men are superb archers, well able to use every piece of terrain in order to pepper the enemy with arrow fire. Their constant fighting against celtic tribes materialised in their fondness of the long sword, making them utterly deadly when closing in for the kill. They can be recruited from the carpathian dacian territories and from the carpathian arch.


Dacian Slingers/Light Infantry
average morale and valour, unlimited ammo, expert at hiding in forests
(long hair, long grey tunic, baggy brown trousers, shoes, sling, siccae, small round shield)

These skirmishers are a valuable adition to any dacian army, and perform superbly in accidented terrain. Although a wise leader would not engage them in prolonged melees, they can hold the line in close-combat. They are usualy very young men and can be recruited from all dacian territories.


Getae Infantry/Medium Infantry
very good morale, very good valour, can form phanlax, sapping ability
(helmet, grey tunic, baggy brown trousers, shoes, long spear, akinakes, large oval shield with intriquate drawings)

The getae is the greek name given to the dacians. Nevertheless, the tribes that came into contact with the greek polis founded on the western shores of Pontus Euxinus formed a distinct breed. These men were renowned for their fiercesness, and all macedonian expeditions sent against them effectively dissapeared in the "getae wasteland", as Strabon called it (VII, 3, 14), while macedonian kings like Lisimachos knew dacian captivity. Given these facts, they are well familiarised with the phanlax, and their terrorising raids into macedonian and later roman Thrace made them adept of the helmet and the greek akinakes, a type of straight sword commonly used south of the Danube. They can be recruited in all south-eastern dacian territories, including Scythia Minor.


Agathirsii Warband/Medium Infantry
impetuous, good valour, expert at hiding in forests, sapping ability
(long hair, beard, black wood tunic, iron leaf-scale armor, arm guards, baggy brown trousers, ankle boots, javelins, siccae, large oval shield with intriquate drawings)
Inhabiting the inner carpathian arch, these dacian tribes were renowned for their pride and huge wealth coming from their mines rich in gold and iron ore, mentioned from an early age even by Herodotus (Historiae, IV, 104). As a result, they are not only better equipped than the common dacian warriors, but also overconfident in their fighting prowess and traditions. Even if their tactics do not differ from the ones used by the others, their individual valour and armor gives them a significant edge in close-combat. They can be recruited only in the carpathian arch.


Getae Cavalry/Light Cavalry
very good morale, good valour, average charge, fast, cavalry poor in woods
(long hair, black tunic, arm guards, brown trousers, shoes, composite bow, quiver of arrows hung off the back, akinakes, simple oval shield)

The getae horse archers have a long and proud tradition, having developed superb skills in confrontations with the scyths and sarmatians. These getae "who believe to be immortals" (Historiae, IV, 93) were the only thracian tribes that confronted Darius in his expedition against the scyths in 514BC, and for their "recklessness they were immediatly subdued and forced to follow the huge persian army, eventhough they are the bravest and wisest of all thracians", as Herodotus wrote (Historiae, IV, 96, 118). Their task is to kill, wound, disrupt or simply reduce the morale of enemy infantry with endless showers of arrows, but they have problems like all horse archers in wet or damp weather. They can be recruited in all south-eastern dacian territories, including Scythia Minor.


Comati Cavalry/Light Cavalry
good morale, good valour, good charge, fast, cavalry good in accidented terrain
(long hair, beard, brown tunic, arm guards, black trousers, shoes, javelins, siccae, small oval shield with intriquate drawings)

These horsemen form the mounted counterparts of the comati warbands. Their small fast horses allow for very good performances in any type of terrain, being usualy used to screen flanks, charge home, and for pursuit once an enemy is broken. On the other hand, they are expert scouts and perfectly suited for scorched-earth tactics commonly used by the dacians, while instilling fear in the enemy march columns with their dracones. They can be recruited from all dacian territories.


Tarabostes/Medium Cavalry
impetuous, hardy, very good charge, may charge without orders, cavalry good in accidented terrain
(long hair, pileus, beard, "tartan" wool cloak, brown tunic, iron leaf-scale armor, arm guards, brown baggy trousers embroidered in white at the hem and lower legs, greaves, ankle boots, lance, siccae, large oval shield with intriquate drawings)
These mounted warbands comprise warriors provided by the tarabostes families. Usualy veterans attached to a warchief, in this aspect resembling the gallic nobility, they form the main volunteer force for pillage raids. They are fearsome all-round cavalry, well armoured and looking upon war as to a class-affair. Their overconfidence combined with dacian religious beliefs makes these men prone to charge against tremendous odds as long as their chieftan is alive; thus, they lack the discipline required to any elite cavalry. They can be recruited from all dacian territories and their cost reduces significantly in long periods of peace.


Dacian Infantry/Heavy Infantry
high morale, hardy, disciplined, can form phanlax, expert at hiding in forests, sapping ability
(phyrgian bronze helmet, beard, brown tunic, iron leaf-scale armor, arm guards, baggy black trousers, ankle boots, long spear, siccae, large oval shield with intriquate drawings)

These troops were raised once the dacian state reached a strong level of organisation. Constituing the rank and file of the dacian professional troops, these men are well adapted to dense forested areas, thus their cohesion does not suffer from fighting in accidented terrain when in close formation. Nevertheless, after throwing their spears, their small siccae and large oval shields allow to perform in open formation similar to roman legionaries, spreading in loose lines for close-combat. They can be recruited in all dacian territories, but only late in the game.


Costobocii Warband/Heavy Infantry
impetuous, hardy, very good charge, expert at hiding in forests
(long hair, long beard, black tunic, mail shirt, arm guards, baggy black trousers, ankle boots, long straight sword, large round shield with intriquate drawings)

These tribes of highlanders inhabiting the north of the Oriental Carpathian mountians are among the most barbaric and ferocius dacians. The independent spirit and warlike nature of the costobocii forced them into long bleeding conflicts with most of their neighbours, making the germanic bastarnae tribes their arch-enemies. As a consequence, their fighting style and equipment endured significant changes, the falx having the disadvantages inherent to a two-handed weapon not to the liking of these necessarily pragmatic warriors. They can be recruited in the north and north-east Dacia.


Ktistai/Heavy Cavalry
impetuous, elite, excelent charge, disciplined
(long hair, long beard, black cloak, long black wood tunic, iron leaf-scale armor, arm guards, baggy black trousers, greaves, ankle boots, bow, quiver of arrows hung off the back, falx)

Also called the "foundators", "gods' worshipers", "walkers on smoke", these men formed the dacian priesthood. They have the reputation of being able to give immortality to the ones of their choosing, and the greeks say they are devout disciples of Aesculap's teachings. Organised in similar fashion to the celtic druids, performing almost the same tasks of seers, historians, judges, being renowned doctors, astronomers and astrologers. They weren't consuming meat, didn't have sexual relations and practiced some form of oriental mysteria; in fact, Flavius Josephus, refering to the eseni hebrew sect, writes: "and those live (the eseni) in a way that doesn't differ by any means, but it's mainly aproaching the life-style of those dacians called pleistoi (the best)" (Judaic Antiquities, XVIII, 1, 5). Supposed to give their full allegiance to the royalty, they formed the dacian intellectual class and the king was often their pontifex maximus. Inhabiting the Koganoions (sacred mountains) where they devote themselves to Zalmoxe, they form invaluable but small cavalry cores of elite warriors. Needless to say, they are experts in wielding the bow and falx, their role being decisive if in greater numbers. The Ktistai will never break, disobey or act without orders, and if you are a believer, will never die. They can be recruited only in places with highly developed religious infrastructure, have a long training time but do not cost a thing.


Pleistoi/Heavy Cavalry
impetuous, elite, irrezistible charge, disciplined
(long hair, phyrgian gold helmet with cheek guards, beard, purple cloak, black wood tunic, chainmail, gold armguards, black trousers embroidered in gold at the hem and lower legs, golden greaves, ankle boots, lance, long celtic sword, large oval golden shield with intriquate drawings)

The strong ties developed between the dacian kings and the ktistai priesthood means that these zealots also form their bodyguard. Best horses, weaponry and armour are available to them, usualy being equiped in sarmatian cataphract fashion. Their loyalty is unwavering.

PSYCHO
06-19-2004, 08:51
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Fantastic work Nowake

Oleander Ardens
06-19-2004, 10:23
Both of you Nowake and Psycho set a very high standard indeed.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

I will start to work on the Sarmantian and Scythian units in two weeks. I have already collected a great deal of info about them and I hope the result will be up to the work of both of you... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Mouzafphaerre
06-19-2004, 11:19
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http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
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Basileus
06-19-2004, 14:07
Great work Nowake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri
06-19-2004, 17:25
Awesome work, Nowake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Steppe Merc
06-19-2004, 17:46
As usaul, I voted for the as much detail as possible. Yay
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif Awesome work, keep it up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

DemonArchangel
06-20-2004, 21:39
Damn man THAT'S AWESOME

Nowake
06-21-2004, 11:22
Thank you all.



Quote[/b] ]I will start to work on the Sarmantian and Scythian units after two weeks

It would be great Oleander. Also, Psycho scheched something on the germans some time ago, maybe I could help him out if he would give me his first project directions and we could work a unit tree on that faction also.

Lazul
06-21-2004, 12:32
I just want to say that I still dont like the fact that some factions are called "barbarian" as they where NOT barbarian in their own eyes

Maybe we should rename all the Christians -Infidels... as the Muslims saw them as that.

just as stupid as calling them barbarian as it is mainly a negative word.

Oleander Ardens
06-21-2004, 14:57
I know well Psycho's list of the Germanic tribes, when he posted it on the .com I gave him feedback and made some suggestions. It was a nice thread, but after having explained many other forumites for the xxx time again that the Germans were not Conan-like huge swords swinging howling "barbarians" it became a rather exhausting affair...

RisingSun
06-22-2004, 05:00
Quote[/b] ]I just want to say that I still dont like the fact that some factions are called "barbarian" as they where NOT barbarian in their own eyes

Maybe we should rename all the Christians -Infidels... as the Muslims saw them as that.

just as stupid as calling them barbarian as it is mainly a negative word.

That's a silly argument. The word barbarian comes from how the Greeks thought their language sounded (like bar-bar). Over time it's denotation grew to encompass all European non Greco-Roman peoples. It then acquired a negative connotation when used in certain contexts.

However, using it like this is not one of those contexts- it is simply a pronoun. Would you rather I say "Gauls, all the Celts as well, Germanics, Huns, Dacians, Britons, Saxons, Scythians, *insert small barbarian ethnic group here ad infinitum*? Or would you rather I say "Barbarian peoples." ?

Nowake
06-23-2004, 07:53
Rising Sun is right. Plus, it depicts a lifestyle, you can't argue with that: the barbarians lived in tribal communities, used another recruitement system and so on.


I posted these alreay in another thread, but maybe some of you haven't saw them. A fat modern british falxman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif in action.


http://www.larp.com/legioxx/falxcut1.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/falxcut2.jpg
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/falxcut3.jpg

jean_s
06-23-2004, 12:43
This unit tree is a must for Dacia in "RTW"... otherways what will be "The Glory of Rome"?...defeating some anonymous and dishorganised people?...and after that making them a huge monumentum in Rome like "The Column of Traian"?...I doubt it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

Respect for Nowake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Mablung
06-26-2004, 06:21
Excellent work, the amount of effort you most have put in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif This and Psycho's list are definately needed in R:TW or maybe CA should call it Rome: (For mainstream gamers) Total War http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

ah_dut
06-26-2004, 13:25
just brill mate

Alexander the Pretty Good
06-27-2004, 00:15
Yeah, historical accuracy can't hurt, and distinct differences between the barbarian factions would add more to the game. Good work, guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Nowake
07-03-2004, 10:43
Thanks m8 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shigawire
07-03-2004, 22:02
Great work Nowake. I am fairly certain that the game won't have this many units in there, but we can mod the game to get more units. Remember, CA said the middle-name of the game would be "moddable." http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

I'm willing to work on a historically realistic mod, adding many units, as a 3d modeller. I specialize in organic character modelling. But I won't be the leader of a mod, my leadership-skills are few, so I would have to be led by someone else. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

Oleander Ardens
07-04-2004, 08:28
Everybody has his talents and 3d modeller are more than just welcomed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I`m pretty optimistic that we can get all the historical Unit trees in time, so that we have a neat start once RTW rolls out....

Cheers

OA

Shigawire
07-04-2004, 22:38
Well I'd start by giving the Lakedaimonians a proper beard and long hair http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Here's a low-poly model I've made for a game using the Tribes2 engine (Torque engine).
http://www.geocities.com/shigawire_3d/graphix/NS-640x480.JPG

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif