Jannissaries and some other questions

[Joel11]

Hi, I just bought Medieval: Total War, and while searching the net to find out how to play it well both MP and SP, I fount this awesome site.

Question 1: Can I only build one Grand Mosque and Military Academy?

Question 2: If I can only build 1 Military Academy, can I only build Janissaries from one province at a time?

Question 3: If I can only build Janissaries from one province, then why are Turks so highly regarded?

I know these are probably old questions, or obvious ones, but I searched them and couldn't find anything. Any help would be great.

[IrishMike]

Hey Joel11 and welcome to the org.

Question 1-- You can build 1 of each in each province that u control.

Question 2-- You can only build Janissaries from the provinces that u have built Grand Mosques and Military Academys in.

Question 3-- The turks are so highly regarded because they have a unique and awasome line up of units if used correctly and Janissaries are killing machines.

I hope I helped. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] (Joel11 @ June 19 2004,21:17)]Hi, I just bought Medieval: Total War, and while searching the net to find out how to play it well both MP and SP, I fount this awesome site.

Question 1: Can I only build one Grand Mosque and Military Academy?

Question 2: If I can only build 1 Military Academy, can I only build Janissaries from one province at a time?

Question 3: If I can only build Janissaries from one province, then why are Turks so highly regarded?

I know these are probably old questions, or obvious ones, but I searched them and couldn't find anything. Any help would be great.
btw, welcome to the Org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif


Quote[/b] ]Question 1-- You can build 1 of each in each province that u control.

Question 2-- You can only build Janissaries from the provinces that u have built Grand Mosques and Military Academys in.

Question 3-- The turks are so highly regarded because they have a unique and awasome line up of units if used correctly and Janissaries are killing machines.


Yeah what he said, Turks are great because at late, their Janissaries are walking tanks. They are probably the best infantry along with the SAPs, and they can kill both infantry and cavalry. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]Question 1: Can I only build one Grand Mosque and Military Academy?
- MTW 1.0 you can build as many as you want. MTW 1.1 you can build multiples so long as you begin them all in the same year. VI you can only build one of each, so wherever you build your GM, your MA must follow. (Hmm...i'm not so sure now, it may be VI-2.0 allows the 'start them on the same turn' trick, then patch 2.01 implements the full restriction - no multiples)


Quote[/b] ]Question 2: If I can only build 1 Military Academy, can I only build Janissaries from one province at a time?
- (i think previous answer applies here, it will vary depending upon which version of the game you're playing)


Quote[/b] ]Question 3: If I can only build Janissaries from one province, then why are Turks so highly regarded?
in high/late, the whole turk unit roster is peaking, Janissaries are just a part of why people regard them so highly. Also, i never build anything except JHIs, JAs and JIs require the MilAcad but 1) aren't worth the build requirements and 2) take the place of building a JHI

[Joel11]

Thanks alot for your quick replies. I'm using 2.01 Viking Invasion, and it looks like they fixed the starting mutiple on the same year thing. Is there a way that I can mod it so I can build Jannisaries in more then one province? Any help would be great.

[motorhead]

Download the Gnome Editor (http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/Tools/Gnome_UnitBuildProj_Editorv2.0.zip), open up the crusader_build_prod13.txt file located in the main MTW directory. Scroll down to the listing for Grand Mosque and modify the 4th column by removing UNIQUE. Now you can build multiple GMs which allows multiple MAs (you don't need to edit the MA listing, it only requires a GM and is not a unique building).

Make sure you backup your files before you edit them

[eds]

I think you can build the GM, then MA in one province, then destroy the GM and rebulid it elsewhere while retaining the MA. In this way you should be able to build multiple MAs, but you'll only get the +3 morale bonus that the GM provides in one of them (still, +2 for a ribat isn't bad).

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (eds @ June 20 2004,08:42)]I think you can build the GM, then MA in one province, then destroy the GM and rebulid it elsewhere while retaining the MA. In this way you should be able to build multiple MAs, but you'll only get the +3 morale bonus that the GM provides in one of them (still, +2 for a ribat isn't bad).
Eds is right. The Grand Mosque is unique, which means you can have only one of them at the same time, but the military academy isn't. So after you've constructed your fitst MA, you can pull down the GM and build is elsewhere, and build there an MA too.

[Joel11]

Thanks a lot for your tips, now I don't have to use those weak Tucuman foot and Saracen infantry anymore

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (Joel11 @ June 21 2004,00:08)]Thanks a lot for your tips, now I don't have to use those weak Tucuman foot and Saracen infantry anymore
they are there for a reason you know, cough*gamebalance* and Saracens are [/B]good[B]

[IrishMike]

Ah yes, but the campaign is so much easier when you can go slaughter all of the map with a few super units. Instead of using units that require strategy to win with.

Janissaries are a just reward thought when u play the campain from early level on, because just trying to survive to get them is hard enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Joel11 @ June 19 2004,21:17)]If I can only build Janissaries from one province, then why are Turks so highly regarded?
Use the one province to make Janissary Heavy Infantry.

Janissary Archers and Janissary Infantry are nice, but not a big enough improvement over Futuwwa to justify tying up the one province.

Futuwwa can be used as archers or melee infantry, and they're quite good at either. Throw in a couple of Ghazi Infantry with enough armor upgrades and a good, working knowledge of how to use horse archers and you're set.

Also, you can get Janissaries of all types from Jihads, and not just from one province.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (ColdKnight @ June 21 2004,00:51)]Ah yes, but the campaign is so much easier when you can go slaughter all of the map with a few super units. Instead of using units that require strategy to win with.

Janissaries are a just reward thought when u play the campain from early level on, because just trying to survive to get them is hard enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
They're not a just reward, i've won as the turks without them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[eds]

The appeal? They're probably the most flexible faction out in both single player and multiplayer (less so in multiplayer). They have a very diverse unit roster. You can build tailored armies for any environment and for any style of play. Once you get JHI in single player you can successfully fight conventional stand-up battles with the catholics (you can already do that to some degree with saracen infantry, because of the way the AI plays making spearwalls useful). You can build hybrid, hit-and-run armies that shower the enemy with an absurd number of arrows before ever commiting to hand to hand combat. You can build all cav armies with their access to fast/light cav, medium cav and heavy cav and horse archers.

A very fun faction to play, in my opinion.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (eds @ June 21 2004,20:54)]The appeal? They're probably the most flexible faction out in both single player and multiplayer (less so in multiplayer). They have a very diverse unit roster. You can build tailored armies for any environment and for any style of play. Once you get JHI in single player you can successfully fight conventional stand-up battles with the catholics (you can already do that to some degree with saracen infantry, because of the way the AI plays making spearwalls useful). You can build hybrid, hit-and-run armies that shower the enemy with an absurd number of arrows before ever commiting to hand to hand combat. You can build all cav armies with their access to fast/light cav, medium cav and heavy cav and horse archers.

A very fun faction to play, in my opinion.
but bwa hard to master http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (ColdKnight @ June 20 2004,16:51)]Janissaries are a just reward thought when u play the campain from early level on, because just trying to survive to get them is hard enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif
Check out katanks's Turk Blitz in the guides section. Turks are the easiest faction to play in Early Era once you know the trick.

[Joel11]

Do the Turks have any good Heavy Calvary in the late game, I've been using Kwazariam (sp?) Cavalry, and it's good, but really able to stand up to Chivalric and Royal Knights.

Are Futtawas better then Turcoman foot infantry?

[eds]

Quote[/b] (Joel11 @ June 21 2004,15:23)]Do the Turks have any good Heavy Calvary in the late game, I've been using Kwazariam (sp?) Cavalry, and it's good, but really able to stand up to Chivalric and Royal Knights.

Are Futtawas better then Turcoman foot infantry?
That's what Janissary Heavy Infantry is for. They eat cavalry for breakfast. They'll wipe out a unit of Lancers for about 1/3rd of their own.

Sipahi of the Porte is a Late Era Turkish cavalry unit. It's better than Khwarazmian, though it is a body guard unit therefore only 20 strong. They do have bows though, which makes them extra useful. Also in the late era, Royal Ghulam Bodyguards can go toe to toe with Chivalric Knights (better melee stats than the Sipahi along with a better charge, but no bows), but as with the Sipahi of the Porte, their unit size leaves something to be desired, so the Chivalric Knights will win a 1 on 1 by sheer unit mass. Otherwise, Late Royal Ghulam Knights have equivelant combat stats (though slightly worse morale). High era Ghulam Bodyguards are also better than Khwarazmian, in terms of individual stats. But as before they're hurt by the unit size, which is 20.

The best overall cavalry you'll get (IMO) is Valor 1 Armenian Heavy Cavalry (bonus if you build them in Armenia). They're better than valor 0 Khwarazmian, though not as heavily armoured (so more vulnerable to ranged attacks). If you're just playing the AI, valor 1 Armenian Heavy Cavalry with upgraded armor (the AI tends not to upgrade very often) can go toe to toe with the heaviest Catholic Cavalry, Lancers.

Fuutuwwas are better all around than Turcoman foot. Better overall melee, much better morale (Turcomans have horrible morale and will break very quickly). The one area the Turcomans have an advantage is in ranged skirmishing. They have +1 armour over Futuwwas and they're faster, so they're good for ranged duels against other foot archers. On the flip side, you can get a valor bonus for Turcoman foot (anatolia I think) that you can't get for Futuuwas. With that valor bonus, Turcoman foot can melee just about as well as Futuwwas, though their morale is still significantly lower than the Futuuwas. On the flip side of that, Turcoman Foot aren't impetuous, Futuwwas are.

[HopAlongBunny]

JHI are simply great

Before you get them though, you can build Ghazi and Futuwwa. Unlike most Christian units these guys will accept and execute any task they are given. They might all die, but at least they will give it a shot :)

Playing the Turkish faction is also an excellent time to perfect the use of Horse Archers. The micro-management can be a little mind-numbing at first, but once you learn how to use them the results can be spectacular.

All in all, a pleasant change from Arb's and Heavy Cav/Heavy Inf.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Joel11 @ June 21 2004,17:23)]Do the Turks have any good Heavy Calvary in the late game, I've been using Kwazariam (sp?) Cavalry, and it's good, but really able to stand up to Chivalric and Royal Knights.
The short answer is no.


Quote[/b] ]Are Futtawas better then Turcoman foot infantry?

Quite. eds covered the issue. Just add that the tech requirements are practically the same. Got a bowyer's guild? You can make Turcoman foot. Add a swordsmith. Now you can make Futuwwas.

[soibean]

I havent played turks in Late pd yet but I did in high...
for heavy cavalry I used a mix of Ghulum cavalry and Armenian heavy Cavalry, I really wasnt sure which one was better but ya know...

I have never used the turcoman foot infantry... I think the futuwaas are alot better. I put about 3 futuwaas per army... set them on a higher landscape and pepper the enemy with arrows as the come closer... then send my infantry forward, move futuwaas to sides and make use of that good attack (if needed)

[eds]

AHC is exactly the same as Ghulam Cav, except with a better charge. The only catch is it's only buildable in a few provinces (IIRC Armenia, Lesser Armenia and Rum).

Since you can get a valor bonus for both Ghulams and AHC, the latter are still your best bet I think. The only reason you would use Ghulams is if you don't control any provinces that can build AHC, or you don't control Armenia and thus can't get the valor bonus but you do control Lesser Armenia and therefore can build V1 Ghulams. You might also use Ghulams for the desert and just not build armour upgrades in Lesser Armenia (so you still get the valor bonus), while buidling armourers in Armenia for your AHC to use in non-desert climates. That's what I usually do.

I don't use turcomans much offline either. Usually I'll use them for when I want a dedicated archer (which is basically never offline if a hybrid is available). In the early era, Futuwwas make up the bulk of my infantry-based, Turkish armies. I tend to keep a small force of cav and maybe a couple of ghazis for the AP and all the rest are Futuwwas. Sometimes I'll have a saracen or two (particularly against the Byzantine, to delay those invincible Kataphraktoi generals when they rush my futuwwas). I tend to avoid all combat (and use the cav/saracens/ghazis) to screen the futuwwas as they fall back and keep firing their arrows. When you have 10+ futuwwas, let me tell ya the damage they can do with their bows before they ever engage in combat is ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous when you add in a horse archer or two to bait the AI and run their units, one at a time, parallel to your line of futuwwas. Watching 10+ archers melt a unit away is very satisfying.

I build all-cav armies as the Turks as well which I use when the terrain is agreeable.

[Gith]

In my old Turk campaign before I got JHI and JI (I never bothered with JA, I figured JI were all around better) I used to make armies up of Futtawas, maybe some ottoman, saracens, a few armenian cav, and a unit or two of ghazi.

Typical strategy would be something like this: saracens hold the line, futtawas or ottoman pepper enemy until they run dry, ghazi are shock, and the armenian are used solely for flanking and running down routers.

I really, really enjoy the turks, as I find them to be insanely flexible, and the only army that offers very good archer/infantry units.

[Magraev]

It seems a bit silly that you can only build Janissaries in one province considering that there are two provinces who give a valor bonus (Georgia for archers and Bulgaria for the heavies).

I've removed Military academy as a requirement in my games and made it master spearmaker, swordsmith and bowyer respectively. It's nice to see jannies in the opposing Turk armies, and it does seem to make them more competetive in high and late.

[Doug-Thompson]

Bonused AHC from Armenia is the best heavy cavalry available to the Turks, from beginning to end. Turks get a discount on the price of Khwarazmian, I think, but no valor bonuses.

Bedouin camels can hurt high-end knights badly, especially in the desert, but that's the only thing they can do. Even then, it's iffy. Knights have better speed and morale. Very few camels get away once their morale breaks.

The point with the Turks, like most Muslim factions, is to be agressive enough that the enemy doesn't get to sit back and build these types of units.

========================

For some reason, Jihads provide plenty of Ghulam Cavalry. Some of them have good generals in them and are quite worth keeping. I use Lesser Armenia to provide valor-bonused retraining for these after the Jihad's over.

[mcv]

Quote[/b] (eds @ June 21 2004,12:54)]Once you get JHI in single player you can successfully fight conventional stand-up battles with the catholics (you can already do that to some degree with saracen infantry, because of the way the AI plays making spearwalls useful).
Are you saying that the AI charges your spearmen? He never does that against me. I always put up a long wall of spears, so he can't get around the edges, and he always tries to get around anyway. The AI is pretty decent at flanking, although he only does one flank at a time and I can just rotate my army to face him, while I use a big pinning force to grab his attention while small groups of Knights go around the back, which works a lot better.

By the way, if you want JHI, build lots of Jihads everywhere, then let an AI player take one province, and swamp that province with all your Jihads. Unlike Catholics with Crusades, you can have as many Jihads at a time as you like, and many of them will contain Janissaries.


mcv.