Must you garrison to avoid revolts?

[econ21]

I'm going back to STW after a long break, but I've forgotten something - must you put troops in all your provinces to avoid the risk of revolt? I think in MTW you need at least 100 or there is a chance of revolt even with good loyalty. Is there something similar in STW? If so, how many men is enough? 60? Or two units of 60? Thanks for any advice

[PaolinoPaperino]

I found that the better solution is a shinobi, and just for a couple of years.

And a border fortress to save you form invading enemy shinobi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ah_dut]

depends on the province, all revolts in terms of garrison are more or less the same. But there are the differant types of revolt, e.g loyalist, christian etc but i don't know any limit as such.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I rarely garrison mine, it is not necassary as long as the province is happy.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 20 2004,23:09)]I'm going back to STW after a long break, but I've forgotten something - must you put troops in all your provinces to avoid the risk of revolt? I think in MTW you need at least 100 or there is a chance of revolt even with good loyalty. Is there something similar in STW? If so, how many men is enough? 60? Or two units of 60? Thanks for any advice
As far as I know there are no bandit revolts like in MTW, so you don't have to garison against that. A few shinobis will suffice.

[Kristaps]

but isn't it the case that if you leave it ungarrisoned, the province is just asking to be attacked from the sea? i.e., if the AI get's a surviving strategic unit into the province it can be attacked from anywhere. with no garrison, you will lose it in one turn.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've never had the ai port invade me. In any case you can counter there strategic agents.

[solypsist]

in STW, the AI is not programmed to port attack, so no worries about that.

you don't necessarily need to garrison, but it's a good habit to get into. one unit of 100 ashi is good enough, with maybe an archer unit here and there. this helps in case you suffer a huge drop in loyalty (new Daimyo, your Daimyo is isolated and cut off, etc.) and other things that are programmed into the game to get past shinobi's helpful duties.

[Nowake]

I prefer to leave no garrison. Just get the taxes as low as you can afford, and build border forts. If a province does revolt and it had no garrison, the rebellion will contain mostly ashi and archers, easy to defeat.

[Oaty]

As long as you never lose a battle to rebels you will not have any revolts. If you want to have some fun have your daimyo himself lose a battle to rebels and watch what happens

[HicRic]

I remember once when I "accidently" sent my Daimyo and his Hatamoto to fight in the last province on the map all on their own. 11 men against 700 seemed fair to me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Suffice to say, although he took many with him, he died. Much to my amusement, ever single province bar two in Japan rebelled against me. It took ages for the game to go through each province saying "blah blah has rebelled" and then "blah blah has taken this province from you". It was so amsuing that I actually carried on with my game, and had to re-take all of Japan from the rebels and re-emergent clans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ June 23 2004,14:34)]As long as you never lose a battle to rebels you will not have any revolts. If you want to have some fun have your daimyo himself lose a battle to rebels and watch what happens
I know. However, more frequently the loyalty drops when you have poor harvest.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] ]in STW, the AI is not programmed to port attack, so no worries about that.


The comp did pull one on me once. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

He attacked the Oda capital province that was 1 province behind the frontlines and won http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

This made me extremly paranoid for ports attack for several campaigns afterwards.

[barocca]

Quote[/b] (Ironside @ June 25 2004,03:33)]
Quote[/b] ]in STW, the AI is not programmed to port attack, so no worries about that.


The comp did pull one on me once. :stunned:

He attacked the Oda capital province that was 1 province behind the frontlines and won ~:mecry:

This made me extremly paranoid for ports attack for several campaigns afterwards.
i have seen a couple in my day too,
but never deep into your territory, always either a border province or one back from the front line

i think they were more common in old shogun, pre warlords...
(not certain)
but they were always a worry for me after that...

[EatYerGreens]

i have seen a couple in my day too,
but never deep into your territory, always either a border province or one back from the front line

i think they were more common in old shogun, pre warlords...
(not certain)
but they were always a worry for me after that...

Hi Barocca, and all,

thanks for the warning about this possibility. I'll be on the lookout for it even more now.

Speaking as an 'old shogun'-er* myself, I can only add that I've never seen the AI attempt this in any of the times I've played it. However, that may have had something to do with the fact that I had successfully pulled off port attacks myself on occasion so, in effect, I had made myself paranoid ~:dizzy: about the AI's ability to learn from player behaviour {see footnote} and try the same trick on me. Therefore I always maintained a garrison of some description. If it was programmed to be capable of this sort of thing, it just never tried it because I always had the right level of deterrent. This is not entirely conclusive about whether it [*V 1.11] could or couldn't though, is it?

If the AI attacks at all, it generally tries to get better than 3:2 odds, more often 2:1 or 3:1 so, if I'd stashed 180 in my port, it's going to have to commit maybe 360 of its forces, possibly from a key province of its own, to what is basically a very risky maneuvre. What if I'd decided to move in a huge army to the target province in that turn, with a view to shipping them off to somewhere else? If they fail in the battle and lack a line of retreat, they could lose the lot. The program permits arrival by sea but does not seem to accept path of retreat by sea, as I found out for myself on time, though luckily not at great cost - it was an 'exploratory/smash up developments raid' by a 'junk' YA unit.


Footnote:

Now I could be wayyyy off base about this but, if not, it may deserve a thread in its own right but I could have sworn that either the manual or a readme file mentioned something about the AI being able to 'learn' from the user's playing style. Not sure if it meant on the strategic, or tactical, level, or both. Anyone else remember any of that?

It could just have been one of those quirky things that sometimes get into the docs for an upcoming program which get into print only for the s/w developers to drop the idea in the last few weeks before its released, so you get to read about it but never see it in action.

Having read various threads recently, it might explain why the campaign experience seems to vary so widely from person to person.

[HicRic]

EatYerGreens, that is very interesting. If you can find the place where you read that, I'm sure everyone here will be very interested indeed. The idea that the AI might learn a bit from the human style of play is very interesting, and frankly, cool. ~;)

[EatYerGreens]

I've just skimmed through the printed manual and it's not mentioned in there. It could have been in 'The Way of the Daimyo' document but that's an even longer read and the Explorer Window you get doesn't offer any menu functions, like search, for example.

It could have been in a readme but I'm beginning to think I'm confusing it with some other game or program. Apologies for the false alarm.

I suppose the quickest way to find out is to do a file search on your TW game's directory and hunt for a non-gamesave file with a timestamp later than those of the rest of the install.

[nokhor]

i remember what EYG is talking about. it was called 'genetic ai' and it was hyped early on as one of the features the stw would have. the computer would learn from your playing style and adapt to it. i don't think it was ever officially printed in anything but it was talked about in the pre release interviews and i think it was also on the first offical shogun webpage.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah I remember that...never saw any evidence of it ingame though.

[EatYerGreens]

i remember what EYG is talking about. it was called 'genetic ai' and it was hyped early on as one of the features the stw would have. the computer would learn from your playing style and adapt to it. i don't think it was ever officially printed in anything but it was talked about in the pre release interviews and i think it was also on the first offical shogun webpage.

Well that's very strange. I saw the game in a shop, read what was on the box and more or less bought it on impulse. I didn't get to see any of the pre-release hype, didn't read any press reviews and so forth and I only found these forums in the past few weeks. I can't for the life of me think where I'd come across this but it certainly stuck in the mind as an appealing prospect.

Like Sasaki though, I can't say I've seen any evidence of it in the game itself.