attempt to avoid the benny hill code

[Blodrast]

has anyone tried this ?
ok, so we know that there's a counter that increments as your units keep avoiding combat, and as it does, your units keep getting a morale penalty, ending up routing.
fine.
but, and this is expecially useful in sieges, where, as several people pointed out, you as the defender would very much like to have your RKs (or whatever fast unit) running around your inner/outer court and have the AI chasing you around, all the while your towers/turrets withering him with missiles.

My question is: has anyone so far figured out how exactly the counter works ? i.e., maybe what you can do is start running around, occasionally engage in battle, and then disengage, and then continue running around. This way you would reset the counter, only engage in a small skirmish enough to reset it, and then run away again. Of course the counter may be (and probably is) more intelligently coded such that you actually have to spend enough time _in combat_ to start decrementing the counter (or whatever it is)...

even though it may (i guess) be considered an exploit, i still think it might be interesting to gain more insight into how it actually works.

any experience about this anyone ?

[Ludens]

Some time ago there was a thread were I asked the same question. It seems that engaging your enemy is enough to reset the counter. But disengaging is a pain, even with hold formation / position.

I understand why the code was added, but it does making luring away enemies harder when you don't have HA. I once tried to lure away a unit of Kataphraktoi with some saharan cavalry, but my guys routed after a minute What was the danger? They could easily escape those slow kataphraktoi, while engaging them would result in slaughter

[PseRamesses]

In the end your troops will route due to too many retreats. So when you use this tactic make shure that you use several units in succession to make it work to an acceptable level.

[Navaros]

i utterly LOATHE this feature and wish CA would patch it right out of existence IMMEDIATELY

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Navaros @ June 25 2004,11:09)]i utterly LOATHE this feature and wish CA would patch it right out of existence IMMEDIATELY
It has been added intentionally. A player by the name of Benny Hill managed to win battles by running around the battleground in circles until the timer ran out. Think of the possibilities to cheat in multiplayer by this kind of tactics. It annoys me too, but without it the game would annoy me more.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well there is no timer in MP and if you see anyone doing this you can always just esc. I think it should be removed too, it limits the amount of skirmishing and army maneuvering you can do.

[Blodrast]

sure, you would need to use more than just one and the same unit every time, and you would need a bit of luck to still have some of that unit after disengaging, but it might just work...especially if the AI hasn't brought super-quality troops inside (which it usually doesn't); in that case disengaging might be quite doable...

thank you guys

[Inuyasha12]

Still think how pathetic a general would look to his troops if he tried that. Basically the feature in the game reflects real life. Or what would happen.

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ] A player by the name of Benny Hill managed to win battles by running around the battleground in circles until the timer ran out.
You're kidding right?
Probably useless information, but Benny Hill was an English comedy character who tended to run around alot while the film was fastforwarded... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[Zortanius]

As irritating as it is, I think the code i useful as it keeps you from wild goose chases - Maneouvarability is important and an art but always running away is not the way to do it.

When you keep retreating the unit will eventually rout and the unit info will say routing due to constant retreat. Of course in real life there was nothing preventing units from running away from stronger ones and the muslim armies infact perfected the hit and run style.

However the counter only increments if the chasing unit is attacking your unit and you choose to run - not just when you decide to move away when the unit comes close. So if the chasing unit is simply marching or marching quickly and has not yet attacked you could keep moving your unit away. Moreover it does not apply to missile units on skirmish and it works differently if the chasing unit can beat yours - for example if a unit of spearmen is chasing a unit of MS then eventually the MS will rout on acount of constant retreat. But if a unit of light infantry is chasing some cavalry they won't rout so easily (and you should not move them away in any case) and should attack and make the pursuers rout instead.

This is retreat is good for getting certain units away form the rest of the army. Move the spearmen away with some light fast cavalry and then charge home with the rest of your cavalry. That is one example.

Cheers

[Duke of Gloucester]

I'm with Inuyasha on this - it's a realisitc feature. Besides, I used to feel guilty when I ran round and round the battlefield with a unit of CA to beat the AI in STW.

[Blodrast]

Zortanius, are these educated guesses or have you tested this or ?...

[HARALD THE RUTHELESS!]

i hate this feature. found out when I was trying to lure some katapraktoi over a bridge with a bunch of saracen cavalry. Not only did they run, they ran of the map completely. In another, bizarre example, my royal knight 6 star general or so routed because i used him to draw out a few units of pesky feudal sergeants. Afterwards he got the 'good runner' vice.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Stopping the running around the map feature is fine, but it doesn't work the way it is intended too, at least in shogun, though I understand it is better i medieval. I know in shogun the counter increments even if your units are not being attacked, which is really silly.

[Zortanius]

As to your query Blodrast a bit of both

In real battles in campaign mode:

1) A unit of MS routed against a constantly 'attacking' unit of spearmen.

However normally when i move horses around and the spearmen move close but do not attack my cavalry does not rout.

2) A unit of brigands with no ammo eventually routed against some CK who kept attacking them. Of course eventually the CK caught up.

3) A unit of Steppe Cavalry did not rout despite being constantly charged by some rebel FMAA. I guess the speed helped.

I will try and test out the rest

The rest is educated guesses.

Cheers

[econ21]

I like the Benny Hill code (great name for it, BTW), although I did not know it existed. In STW, I had a unit of Ashigaru facing a unit of Warrior Monks, so I tried to evade combat - did it on fast forward, so it was just like the Benny Hill show Anyway, served me right. Leading the AI around your castle is also a pretty cheap tactic. Haven't noticed a more general problem with the code.