Favorite clan

[econ21]

This must be an old topic, but I'm revisiting the game and wonder what people think. I'm primarily thinking of the Shogun main campaign out of the box (patched to v1.02).

For me, the dominant strategic feature of the game is the primacy of the east - the lands there are so rich, that getting control of them is likely to make the player unassailable. At this point, the game rather loses interest and hence I generally don't like to play as an the Eastern faction.

Hojo - the archetype Eastern faction I dislike for the reason should gave. I would not dream of playing these guys; they're too rich and would make the game too easy. Plus their special (cheap castles) is a boring.

Imagawa - I am playing these now and suspect they are the most fun - at least if your definition of fun is a long, hard game. I took Shinano and then was attacked by Shimazu on the other island. I was soon attacked by Takeda, Oda and in the end of the course the terrible Hojo horde. It has been nail-biting and very hard. Forget the cheap ninjas and spies - it's the +1 archers from Totomi that is the real bonus for this clain. (Plus +1 cav if they take Shinano.)

Mori - I kinda like these guys, as they are hungry fighters - so poor, they must fight very aggressively and far enough from the rich Eastern lands that the game is likely to be a long one. Plus cheap warrior monks is nice. But it does rather soon get to the point where this faction plays like Shimazu (ie dull).

Oda - I used to like these best, now I am tied with them and Imagawa. I think they are like the HRE in MTW - a very tough strategic position where everyone wants a piece of them. They start out spread out, so their wealth and large army does not stop them being weak. They must try to defend, then fight some very tough rebels and then breakout - always likely to face a two front war. I used to despise their special (cheap ashigaru) but then I realised +1 ashigaru is pretty close to vanilla yari spearmen for a fraction of the price. Plus they get +1 warrior monks.

Shimazu - kinda the anti-Hojo; they start so far out the game is going to be LONG. Problem is, it is not particularly fun long - just a long, rather unchallenging slog until they hit the Hojo horde. Plus I find no-dachi, their special, rather worthless - why not just take Monks? With Shimazu I do use No-dachi, as it is in character, but I begrudge it.

Takeda - can be fun, having early access to cav is great (as is getting cav cheap). I recently had fun helping my 8 year old learn the game with this faction - some tough early battles where you have to win by wits (horse archers are amazing in small battles where you can micro manage them). The split site makes them strategically interesting too. The only problem is that the challenging part of the game is likely to be short, as it makes most sense for them to go for the rich Eastern lands and then be unchallangeable.

Uesugi - I confess that like Hojo, I don't think I've given these guys much of a chance. Same problem as the other eastern factions - the decisive stage will be over too soon. But they do look rather exposed. I've fought countless battles as Imagawa to hold Shinano (one of my favorite defensive positions) so I guess Uesugi might be fun but I would find wiping out Hojo to be irresistable at which point I become them Cheap archers and +1 cav is, of course, nice.

What are other people's views on the clans? Especially, regarding the interest of their strategic positions.

[Gregoshi]

Mori. They were the first clan I tried and I recently played them again. Poor provinces makes the Mori quite challenging.

[Nowake]

Starting from 1550, managed to finish with Mori in 12 years. Not bad for how poor they are. But they have armouries, so you'll have few casulties, which is vital. The funny thing is that I didn't trained more than 2 units of Sohei in all he game (never had time for that Temple). I went for CA, ashi and Naginata, as they form a very powerfull mix with high armour.

Imagawa are easy to play. You can take on Takeda and once you get Kai, you own everyone else.

I don't have a favourite clan.

[AggonyDuck]

I like the Takeda the most. They have an interesting position being surrounded by 4-5lans and a relatively hard one too at the start. But the thing that sets Takeda apart for me is:
1. Takeda Shingen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
2. The loads of good retainers..
3. Cheap cav and being able to get Shinano..
4. Cool colour and banner.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
5. Sanada Yukitaka... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[R'as al Ghul]

I mostly pick Uesugi.
It's true, they possess rich starting provinces but to get the real rich ones on the south (mapwise) coast owned by Hojo, Imagawa and Takeda you have to fight some really tough bridge battles. The Takeda clan will most surely attack you and is difficult to defeat without Cavalry.
I favour them because of the Archer discount.
Samurai Archers are absolutely deadly if used correct. Not as in MTW were a lot of units are too heavily armoured for the Archers to really kill. When you finally build up your defense in the hilly/ mountain provinces west of Shinano your Archers will kill anybody approaching while you build up your other forces. I fought some battles there (Higa?) without any losses at all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunmean.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

R'as /Itto Nakamura

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I like takeda best, preferable in the starting in 1550 scenario. I like cavalry best since the ai brings lots of archers and is no good at defending against cav. I usually take Shinano http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif right off and let the hojo capture Kai to make for an interesting game, you have the hojo and imagawa to south, the oda to the west, the uesugi to the east and the warrior monks to the north http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif after a little while it gets too easy of course, and then I quit.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (1pain1Duck @ June 23 2004,13:41)]I like the Takeda the most. They have an interesting position being surrounded by 4-5lans and a relatively hard one too at the start. But the thing that sets Takeda apart for me is:
1. Takeda Shingen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
2. The loads of good retainers..
3. Cheap cav and being able to get Shinano..
4. Cool colour and banner.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
5. Sanada Yukitaka... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Finished with Takeda in 7 years, starting from 1550. Best game I ever had.

[makkyo]

I'll choose Uesugi just for the rich provinces to the south (east) and the fact that you get warrior monks early on in the game. They have a god starting point if you are agressive enough then you get a single fron war from then on out.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I like the shimazu clan. Nice easy location, secure the land around me then send attacks across to the east of japan and then slowly crush the hojo and takeda who trouble me the most in that area, to the west i wipe out the mori clan as fast as possible.

Also the oda clan, because it is often quite hard but those naginata in my armies make those cavalry based armies wish they were never born( apart from the pesky horse archers, they can be troublesome) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[jelirus]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ June 22 2004,17:23)]Hojo - the archetype Eastern faction I dislike for the reason should gave. I would not dream of playing these guys; they're too rich and would make the game too easy. Plus their special (cheap castles) is a boring.
I have had varying experiences with Hojo. I wouldn't agree completely that just choosing to play Hojo automatically guarantees you a huge advantage.

Early on all of those rich lands make you a nice target for your neighbors.

Simply surviving can be a problem if Uesigi, Immagawa and Takeda team up on you.

Having rich provinces while you are still weak makes survival very questionable.

When I play one of the other Daimyos, I usually make it a point to target Hojo and Uesigi early on. Unless of course I start at the opposite end of the map... but then you are now in a race for time against the same opponents holding those rich lands (Hojo or Uesigi most likely).

You can't afford to let this guy build up against you (or whoever is controlling those lands).

I don't feel guilty playing Hojo. It can be very challenging trying to defend rich provinces early on while dealing with multiple enemies.

If I can gain the upperhand and still win the game, it is rewarding to me to crush my opponents who had been giving me such a hard time at the game's beginning.

I have played all the factions on the hardest level, and won the game with most of them.... all except Oda. I have yet to achieve that on the most difficult level. I have to admit that I couldn't quite pull that one off.

Conversely, my next favorite clan would be Shimazu.

Where I find the No-Dachi to be especially powerful is when I come up against Mori.

Interesting to me that you like Immagawa. If Immagawa can knock out Shimazu early on, it can be "boring" by your definition I believe. I'll have to give this a whirl, since it has been several months now since I played last.

I like this thread... I have played Shogun since it was new. Nice to see this kind of disucssion still going on.


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I don't find it easy with hojo, i actually though quite like the faction. The one that i don't really play as is the vesugi for reasons i'm not really sure of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I find a lot of the clans to be more fun to play if you don't do the standard best opening move. For example the Hojo are very easy if you attack mutsu first turn...you cut down on the number of border provinces, kill lord Uesugi and gain yourself a very rich province...dewa and echigo will be easy pickings and by then nothing will stop you. That strategy is fun if you are trying to see how fast you can win, but I find it more enjoyable to hold off for a few years to give the ai a chance to build up its defenses.

[jelirus]

Quote[/b] (Sasaki Kojiro @ June 25 2004,16:09)]I find a lot of the clans to be more fun to play if you don't do the standard best opening move. For example the Hojo are very easy if you attack mutsu first turn...you cut down on the number of border provinces, kill lord Uesugi and gain yourself a very rich province...dewa and echigo will be easy pickings and by then nothing will stop you. That strategy is fun if you are trying to see how fast you can win, but I find it more enjoyable to hold off for a few years to give the ai a chance to build up its defenses.
Me too.

Actually I do have the strategy down to a fine art... or did at one point. I don't think killing Uesigi right away is assured. It takes a while sometimes.

I have been known to take Echizen, Dewa, and Sato; then ally with him when he is too weak to retaliate.

:) I got a nasty visit from both Takeda and Immagawa once when I sent too many troops into Mutsu. That was a big problem that I never recovered from. Lost that one big time

Time is your ally when you play the rich guys.

[jelirus]

Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 25 2004,16:05)]I don't find it easy with hojo, i actually though quite like the faction. The one that i don't really play as is the vesugi for reasons i'm not really sure of http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
If you're like me you just DON'T like Uesigi because of the way he treats you

He, Mori and Immagawa I can't stand for their diplomatic trickery.

[econ21]

Interesting to hear people's experiences and opinions.

I've put my Imagawa game on ice at the moment. It got to the point where I was turtling in the 3 eastern Imagawa lands plus Shinano, while in the west, my Daimyo had carved his way to through the Shimazu, Takeda and other lands to be banging on the doors of the ex-Oda (now rebels).

Problem was, I did not seem to be rich enough to give the Daimyo the force necessary to over-run Central Japan easily, while every 3 turns, Hojo would hit Shinano with massive armies stuffed full of upgraded Warrior Monks and No-Daichi.

It certainly was challenging, but ultimately got a little repetitive - the endless small-scale offensive battles in the west and the massive defensive set-pieces in the East plain wore me out. But it certainly was the longest and most challenging game of Shogun I've played (I was really shocked and impressed to see how many good troops Hojo had - I thought I would always out-tech the AI).

Strange thing about the Hojo offensives was that they always seemed to lead with masses of Ashigaru, even when they had 16+ units of high level troops. This caused a problem the first time I encountered it, when my archers had expended their arrows on the peasants, but later on was just puzzling.

[The_Emperor]

To be honest my fave clan was the Shimazu. Great starting position, Earlier access to gunpowder than the other clans (since the Dutch and Portuguese land in the west first)

Also their bonus for No Dachi does come in handy.

[Maeda Toshiie]

Oda... not because of the cheap ashis but because of the clan being a challenge to play, in fact one of the harder clans. Also, the Oda get pretty decent generals (of course not as good as the Takeda). Of course your Daimyo (or heir) being genocidal can be real fun.

[Oaty]

I voted for Oda and the later the year you decide to play them the harder it is mainly due to the fact Oda's armies never get teched up good for a starting force while everyone else has a higher tech starting force. Plus the fact you are only safe from 3 clans and if Usegi closes in on you quick hojo and shimazu can be your only friends. Of course you have to love the Oda clans throneroom, chopped off heads everywhere