View Full Version : IRuleAndYouKnowIt
Any comments? I'm talking about AMP.
Mithrandir
06-21-2002, 15:19
comment : how about using spaces, being modest and explaining what AMP means ?
AMP is one of the best, if not the best. Everyone knows that and acknowledges it. I heard he recently used his two computers to ridicule the honour system and go up to over 200. Well, if he was a bad player and it was just to show off, then I would protest. But as said he's an elite player and knows very well the honour system is worth nothing but the satisfaction in getting a high number
Nothing against it...just to show how much worth is the current system.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
BarryNoDachi
06-21-2002, 16:09
he is talking about the fact that a name from that "clan" i rule and you know it, has 233 honour http://totalwar.ea-europe.com/mi/Players/Ladder.asp
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
MagyarKhans Cham
06-21-2002, 16:25
Let just pray we dont have an honoursystem in TWM.
Wow... 233 honor! GAH! Must be a ... oh, never mind... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
I would rather lose my place in a fight but thats f****ing low. Looks like I wont be on for another 3 weeks, cheers
A point proven that the honour system suc's http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
U all should know why AMP is doing it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/cool.gif
He is gonna wipe out the whole top100 list with AMP alter-egos http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Grrr no wonder the newbie's feel left out. You're all just gonna say "oh it's just AMP" Pathetic! If some guy just came on marched his two computer up to 233 honour you would all be balling "Cheat Cheat Cheat".
I'm not saying there is a rule here, but everyone agrees that honour that high can only be got through cheating, and therefore, AMP is a cheat, whether or not he does it for "the good of the community".
Whether or not you like it, you've just acknowledged the existence of the "circle" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Those in it can do whatever they like and forego any shame.
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The Soul
"What people do to other souls
They take their lives - destroy their goals
Their basic pride and dignity
Is stripped and torn and shown no pity"
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Quote Originally posted by The Soul:
Grrr no wonder the newbie's feel left out. You're all just gonna say "oh it's just AMP" Pathetic! If some guy just came on marched his two computer up to 233 honour you would all be balling "Cheat Cheat Cheat".
I'm not saying there is a rule here, but everyone agrees that honour that high can only be got through cheating, and therefore, AMP is a cheat, whether or not he does it for "the good of the community".
Whether or not you like it, you've just acknowledged the existence of the "circle" http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Those in it can do whatever they like and forego any shame.
[/QUOTE]
I agree, makes my efforts look crap now doesn't it as with fogolin and tetsu and all the others.
[This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 06-22-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by LordTed:
I agree, makes my efforts look crap now doesn't it as with fogolin and tetsu and all the others.
[/QUOTE]
That's the whole point, isn't it?
youssof_Toda
06-22-2002, 20:10
why do most vets think it's ok? cuz we know for sure that not some escaping/dropping newbeetwat has claimed that 1st place. and 233 will porbably discourage them from trying cuz their efforts would be discovered before they have claimed that 1st spot
True Ted...you fought for the #1 position for months...but why fighting on a system which is totally flawed. If I am the best player I can still get to 60 if I wish and if I am the worst I can get to 200 with ease.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
I guess i am a cheater since this is the third time being called one online in three different areas The Red Zone,Attacking during Deployment, and this The Ranking System. To me these are just bugs/flaws in the game which were never fixed since the orginal stw. I should never done any of this but i just got tired of people playing the samething claiming they are good and those campers/escapers etc...Lets just hope the Multi of MTW turns out to be twice as good with no bugs.
AMP,
Cheating in my opinion is the use of a bug/loophole/cheat of a game used by those who have no other means to win otherwise. But everyone acknowledges you're one of the best players, you don't need cheating to win and you built up your reputation of fantastic player by skill. You're not a cheater no, at least in my eyes.
You showed us and even discovered some loopholes of the game such as red zone or the attack during deploy...we now all know the problem clearly and can counter it...but you didn't use it to get high honour or to diss other people about your wins...
Actually to a certain extent I agree 100% with your intentions...the honour system is not good because 3/4 of those who use it aren't as skilled as their honour shows. And that's just bull. Nothing wrong in ridiculating it.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Dune Daidoji
06-22-2002, 23:15
amp what you have done does show up the flaws in the honour system , which needed to be done . but it also degrades the hard work of ted and co , i hope this goes no further.we all know the problems . I suggest we now only play friendlys , surely this game is played for the honour of solving tactical puzzles . you dont need a high number after your name to be considered a great player .
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Hard pressed on my right .
My centre is yielding .
Impossible to maneuver .
Excellent .
I am attacking .
MARSHALL FOCH .
I wouldn't say it degrades Ted and Tetsu's efforts. They are recognised top-notch shogun players and their fame well-spread. It is this that counts.. not the numbers.
Someone can mimic AMP and become 250 tomoro, but once you play him(her), you'll know the true picture. Respect and honour are earned and given by others, not via some points and bullshit.
[This message has been edited by tootee (edited 06-23-2002).]
Quote Originally posted by tootee:
Respect and honour are earned and given by others, not via some points and bullshit.
[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this.
I reckon what AMP did is a bit of a laugh. The honour system is completely flawed, i don't understand why people take it seriously and are proud of leading it.
Also, according to Kenchi records another top player did a very similar thing once upon a time...
Papewaio
06-23-2002, 14:59
The honour system as it stands mirrors reality. The highest in the ladder are not neccesarily the best at the TotalWar system, they are the best at the system of the honour ladder.
The most honourable and renown people in the time of STW would not neccesarily be truly the most honourable and best samurai. They would have been the victors and as such would have written their victories as they see fit after the fact. Or someone wishing to curry favour would have done the rewriting of history. I do not believe spin-doctors are anything new... they just used to be called courtiers, diplomats and bards.
So live with the system as it is. But to purposely drive it into the ground, to exploit it, is to do the same to the ones who did honourably get their by deeds of skill.
So AMP you have successfully shown the bugged nature of the ladder. I sincerly hope you find the flaws in the system for MTW. But IMDO you should nuke the 233 guy now that you have made your point. Otherwise you are now cheating, exploiting and dishonouring the deeds of people like LordTed.
[This message has been edited by Papewaio (edited 06-23-2002).]
youssof_Toda
06-23-2002, 15:10
i'd like to ask if only selecting ppl with high honor and let them attack you on a difficult map so that ur victory is almost ensured isn't also some sort of manipulating the honor system. if you'd like a fair system then everyone should play everyone in comp both attack/defend and not only high honor players when they have a far better position on the map and then when they've reached a certain score stop playing to prevent their honor from falling cuz they might loose. (for the record: I DO NOT state that everyone who has high honor does these things described)
MagyarKhans Cham
06-24-2002, 22:39
Hmmm one of the names mentioned in this thread did escape on our undercover Khan, and people consider him a topplayer which he aint definitevly not http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
thats why the ranking sucks
Quote Originally posted by MagyarKhans Cham:
Hmmm one of the names mentioned in this thread did escape on our undercover Khan, and people consider him a topplayer which he aint definitevly not http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
thats why the ranking sucks[/QUOTE]
same here....one of the names mentioned in this thread did escape against me too...I think we r talking about the same "player" Magy
BarryNoDachi
06-25-2002, 00:26
i think it is commonly known that anybody can get high honour by "alternative" methods http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif it would be nice however, to have a ranking system of some sort that can show a more realistic picture.
how many of the top 100 names actually play regular competitive matches and also how many ppl have got multiple names in the top 100?
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
Well the problem is not necessarily multiple names but mostly that a 150 player should be worth his honour...
Tera.
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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Papewaio
06-25-2002, 04:39
Maybe the problem is by itself honour system is too grainy. Maybe if other things were included;
Total (as it is total war) Kills for/against
Average Rate of Kills (how many kills / how long the battles took.)
% Wins as attacker/defender
% Times as attacker
Average Map time
Favourite Map (Castle/Ironing Board/Hilly)
Favourite Victom (By CD Kill... ie this guy kills the same guy every time)
Have all those stats and you can quickly see who is a camper/mass killer (dread rating http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif) etc
{Hey this high honour guy has amazingly short battles all in defence of castles)
Dionysus9
06-25-2002, 05:48
AmpRulesAndYouKnowIt
Amp is a character. You just have to roll w/ his punches. He is always going to push the limits of what he has to work with. If there is a way to exploit the game-engine/honor-system, Amp will do it just so that it has been done.
And Amp doesn't cheat, either. As soon as you lay down some rules, he is happy to kick your ass completely within the rules. What he will do is push the limits of any given set of rules. If you say, 4 max of one unit, Amp will roll out 4 H9 ashi, 4 YS, 4 Musks and 4 Arques. Last night, I saw Amp tear the crap out of an army of YS with all cav (another of his 4 max favorites). The YS general had take 6 YS (instead of the 4 max), Amp said-- no problem, and then beat the crap out of both of us with 16 cav.
It's not cheating to exploit the system.
In fact, in his pursuit of 200+ honor, who did Amp "cheat"? Himself? His other computer? Did Amp So cheat Amp Hojo? To even suggest that Amp is cheating is rediculous.
The honor-system is crap, and we've all known it from the beginning. I don't think Amp cheapens anyone elses efforts by achieving 233 honor (albeit by "alternative methods"). I made it up to 127 Honor (now down to 124), without utilizing any "alternative methods." Good for me, I'm a better player for it. If someone has 150, 177, or 233, and they didn't improve their skills in the process, then it is only their wasted time. It shouldnt matter to the rest of us one way or the other.
Does anyone really give a shit how many numbers they have next to their fictional shogun name? I hope not. I hope you care about how good a player you are, not your BS rank in a fundamentally flawed system.
This is not to discount the efforts of LordTed...in fact, quite the opposite-- It is clear that his honor was gained through skillfull play, and THAT is what matters. Not his rank on the player boards, not his 177 (or whatever it is at now) honor...but
when he squares off against another player, WHO DO YOU PUT YOUR MONEY ON!?
Thats what matters. No poorly designed honor system will ever take that away from Amp, Magy, Ted, Fogolin, et. al. They are phenomenal players, regardless of what numbers are next to their names.
Lethal DRB
06-25-2002, 16:03
But if he wanted to make us "know" honor doesnt count now we know it so why dont he and jeri who played allskill much game thats why hes second why dont they lose it now and let ted be the number1?
At least he is the one who diseve it to be number 1.
DRB
It doesnt matter to me really, but if he had an gram of conscience and guilt he would do the right thing.
Quote Originally posted by Paolai:
same here....one of the names mentioned in this thread did escape against me too...I think we r talking about the same "player" Magy[/QUOTE]
Do you mean me or someone else by that.
LittleGrizzly
06-26-2002, 03:55
was it one out the list ted made ?
me tetsu and fogolin (not making accusations)
Papewaio
06-26-2002, 04:08
Quote Originally posted by Dionysus9:
It's not cheating to exploit the system.
[/QUOTE]
IMDO honour is when you do not exploit someone even when you know you can within the rules. For instance the now practically dead notion of sportsmenship, where you let a person take another chance because of an unfortunate happenstance.
Favourite scene from a fictional account of swordsmenship is one of the fencing scences in Princess Bride. Where the Spanish swordsmen lets the masked pirate regain his breath.
The honour system in STW is fictional why the need to show that the ladder system is broken? Aren't these characters in Shogun our oppourtunity to show how great players we are and win it honourably? Isn't the reason you play online is to avoid playing an AI who you can too easily exploit to win? If you can't even begin to be honourable in a fictional setting where the only thing on the line is sprites then what hope do you have of being honourable in real life?
Honour like Mercy is something only the strong can afford and is priceless to the weak. Sure you can be exploited for being nice. But in the end game we all become inanimate horizontal sprites just like our computer ones. So do you want to be remembered as a selfish git or an honourable human?
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