View Full Version : Progress of the Two Crowns

Duke John
06-24-2004, 09:16
Things to do for the first beta
Sometimes the progress is fast, sometimes non-existant. We cannot give you any indication about when the first beta is released. The list below helps us to see what needs to be done and if you see something that you can help with, then gladly

Cheers, Duke John

V Step 1: Setup

V: Time period
The mod starts at the year 1403 and ends before 1500. Turns are not counted in years but in turns. This will give a longer timespan and avoid time paradoxes.

V: Factions
The mod will include the following factions:

Playable factions
The French
The English
The Swiss
The Scots
The Burgundians
The English Rebels
The Milanese City state
The Venetian City state

V: Step 2: Army lists

V: English

V: French

V: Burgundians

V: Swiss

V: Scots

V: Milanese

V: Germans

V: Yorkists

X Step 3: Tactical part

X Step 3a: Unit stats

X: Classifying units
Deciding on how units should interact; which unit wins vs this unit but loses vs that unit.

X: Unit stats

O Step 4: Strategic part

O Step 4a: Campaign map

V: MapTex
Although not completely finished the MapTex looks good enough for a first beta.

V: Province list

V: LukUp
Done and processed by LMM.

O Province details
Income and governourships.

O Step 4b: Factions

X: Names
All the factions need to get names for their leaders.

X: Coat of Arms
Faction shields and flags.

X: Campaign settings
Starting provinces/units, campaign descriptions.

O Step 4c: Miscellaneous

X: Unit descriptions

O: Strategic pieces
Need to be made for the Governourship Castles.

Duke John
06-26-2004, 15:26
A small update

* I have been modding and we now have 8 factions and 47 units which should provide us a good base to build further on.

* The Governourship building (Castle1) has been succesfully been made undestructable. This means that desertification is eliminated almost completely and that the AI will put up a tougher fight.

* The strategic piece caused me some headache but it works now although I had to use a trick to give the chair a base in faction colours (like the army pieces).

* Since I don't care about soccer :ducks: I will mod this evening some more and I hope that the campaign is almost done tonight.

Then there is still a whole lot more to do but the framework is bugfree. Alot of the stuff will be graphical like the faction emblems, unitgraphics, infopics, etc. (that will be fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif ). But there is also a lot of text that needs to be written: unitdescriptions, campaign intros and some small things.
ShadesWolf (and others), when do you think we should release the first beta? Shall we do it before the unitgraphics are done? Before the unitdescriptions are done? In what state do we want to release the Two Crowns?
Of course it will be better if it is released in a perfect state. But releasing it sooner means that people can provide feedback, balance and write descriptions while I am making unitgraphics and you are doing... other stuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif


Cheers, Duke John

06-26-2004, 15:50
release it ASAP so thick people like myself can give you their daft opinions

06-26-2004, 16:42
I would suggest, what we could do quite easily, once we have the campaign map finalised, we release an early version based on War of the roses. Only york and Lanc would be playable. With this release we could also include a number of historic battles... this way people could get used to playing and use the facility to also play online battles...... this release would be ineffect would be one to identify any problems on the campaign side, but would be a working version..

As a second release we could introduce the Swiss and burgundian wars...

All other provinces would be rebel

Duke John
06-26-2004, 17:40
Good idea ShadesWolf. I will direct my efforts then at a Wars of the Roses campaign with all the needed units. Cutting the mod in pieces will give us a more gradual balancing and thinking-through.

06-27-2004, 07:27
Quote[/b] ]But there is also a lot of text that needs to be written: unitdescriptions, campaign intros and some small things.

If you like I will have a go at doing the unitdescriptions and campaign intros..

Would I be correct in assuming that for Wotr part of 2crowns we are using your initial units ?

Also are we still going to have two specific campaigns, one starting in 1403 and the other 1453 ? This way we could reset the faction starting positions for a more historic feel

If this is fact then I can work on a later campaign intro etc.

NOTE: It appears we have enough space ona unit description for 430 characters of 72 words approx This seems to fit into the space quite nice

Duke John
06-27-2004, 10:30
Quote[/b] ]It appears we have enough space ona unit description for 430 characters of 72 words approx This seems to fit into the space quite nice

We have less space if we want to use the eleborate capitals as seen in the picture below. I did this because I wanted a more medieval look. But it also costs some time to do, not that much since I will already make the letters for the website. But if you want the space, then we can also make normal descriptions without the capitals.
The armylist of the WotR period is largely the same. I think we can add some Scottish Clansmen and English Royal (Foot) Knights.

Quote[/b] ]Also are we still going to have two specific campaigns, one starting in 1403 and the other 1453 ?
I think that this is the best option too.

Cheers, Duke John

06-27-2004, 11:25
Question DJ

How did you manage to get eleborate capitals ?

Duke John
06-27-2004, 11:31
Is that a trick question, or did I use the wrong words? :takes dictionary: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif :takes another disctionary: http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif it should be elaborate and it's not exactly appropiate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shame.gif

Thanks for heeding me for future sillyness http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

ps, did you really need to type it in bold? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

06-27-2004, 11:45
Sorry DJ I hadnt noticed the spelling http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

Is the Capitals part of background image ? as the horse is.
Or have you found another clever method to achieve the effect?

Duke John
06-27-2004, 11:51
The infopic has about the same size as the parchment. In the normal ones the top part is completely empty. But in the example above I added the capital in the infopic and voila When writing the descriptions you will need to take type alot of spaces so that the description starts beside the capital and not on top as seen in the example. I think this should be done once the infopics are done so that you can do this while checking ingame.

Cheers, Duke John

06-27-2004, 12:05
So does that mean we cant finish the infopictures until we have wrote the unit descriptions ? or shall we say each picture begins with the unit name.

Retinue Longbowmen

Retinue longbowmen were considered as member of the standing army. They were trained as hard as any armsman, and were in just as good physical condition. So formidable was the Longbows performance that the French actually refused, by and large, to engage English forces in the open field between 1360 and 1400


Longbowmen (shire)

Longbows are the weapon of choice for an English armies. From the 12th to 15th centrury it was the weapon that changed European history more than any other. In the skilled hands of English and Welsh archers it revolutionised all the medieval concepts and traditions of war. For the first time since the days of the Roman legions, the foot soldier once again ruled the battlefield

Duke John
06-27-2004, 12:14
Changing the capital isn't really that much work. So if some descriptions change overtime it's not a problem. I won't do the infopics anytime soon, so I guess you can start the descriptions however you like.
About the Retinue Longbows description. I don't think it's appropiate to use post medieval thing in a description. Lets keep it in the same setting.

Could you also try to find the translation of Trading Goods and Resources in the infoparchment of a province. It's like:

Resources: (Resource icons)
Trading Goods: (Trading good icons)

I've searched for it, but I can't find it. I think that is a bit odd since it does need to be translated for French/Spanish versions. The reason is that I want to use trading goods to let the player know what units he can train there. I have made a English trading good with the tooltip: You can recruit English troops in this province.
But if we can't translate it, then it will look a bit strange.

Cheers, Duke John

Duke John
06-27-2004, 12:30
How does this sound?

Things to do for the Wars of the Roses beta campaign
Unit descriptions
Campaign descriptions
Leader names

Duke John
Faction Emblems
Unit Icons
Strategic pieces

I don't have so much time that I can also do the unitgraphics. I think if we finish the above that we will have a very firm base that we can test before we expand to the rest of Europe.

06-27-2004, 12:36
Quote[/b] ]How does this sound?
- Perfect http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

I have changed the above description to remove any later references.

BTW how many heroes do you want ?
What I had thought about doing for HYW was having a number of Generals as heroes to incease their ability.

Duke John
06-27-2004, 12:50
I'm thinking of at least all the Dukes and Earls who were in command of battles (vanguard, etc.) during the WotR. Do you have enough references to do that? Otherwise I will help you out with some names and character traits.

When you do this I strongly advise to use the following:

In TC_HEROES.TXT declare the following names:


This is then translated in names.txt:

[v_TCEngForename01] {Henry}
[v_TCEngForename02] {Edward}

If at one point we decide that Edward is a bad name and we want to change it to John, then you only need to change 1 entry instead of 3. Of course you can only change 1, but then you'll get:

[v_Edward] {John}

Which is a mess I've also done this castle/province/title names and it saves heaps of time if you want to change something.

Duke John
06-27-2004, 12:55
Unit valour
And another thing which CBR also mentioned. There is a big difference between SP and MP. In MP we want the units to be balanced at valour 0. In SP however there usually are generals who give the units extra valour. But we still want the balance of MP at valour 0.

So I have given all the unit a valour penalty of -2. While at strategic level you won't notice anything (incapable of displaying negative valour), at tactical level you will see that the units have less morale/stats. So at valour 2 (pretty common) the units will have the same balance of MP at valour 0.

No longer a problem but I thought it would be good to know that you no longer need to fear robotwars.

06-27-2004, 12:59
OK sounds fine to me mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

I currently have no books on WoTR, only general works on the overall period. I have found a number of websites with references, so I shoild be ok. If I get stuck, I will give you a shout.

BTW the campaign itself, when you are happy with the version you have, let me have a copy, so not to duplicate our work.

Im thinking of Castles, province attributes, ie hilly, river etc.....

Duke John
06-27-2004, 13:06
I've researched it quite a bit (although mostly with my Osprey books) so I might know more, but if you do it we will avoid my bad choice of eleborate words http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink.gif

I was starting to fear that modding M:TW was nice but playing the game was horrible, but now I'm actually starting to like this mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

I will collect all the files now. Few things will change when I'm done with the graphics. There will only be some replacement of graphic files but that has little consequence. Wait a few minutes.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-27-2004, 13:08
Shades, if you need any help with a list of hero's, leaders, anything else in that area, just give the word http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Duke John
06-27-2004, 13:19
I thought you were busy with the Super mod and the Eastern Promise? Would you care to help us out and playtest/balance the campaign a bit? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

Edit: the files are 22MB in total so it might take a while to upload.

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-27-2004, 13:27
That would be sweet http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I've written alot about the beta test for the HTW and will post that tomorrow. But upload it mate. The weekends are free and i would love to test the game.

06-28-2004, 12:15
on the units description which infopics will you use?

06-28-2004, 18:38
Quote[/b] (Duke John @ June 27 2004,15:19)]BKB
I thought you were busy with the Super mod and the Eastern Promise? Would you care to help us out and playtest/balance the campaign a bit? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

Edit: the files are 22MB in total so it might take a while to upload.
can i play?

Duke John
06-29-2004, 16:04
These beta's will constantly change so it wouldn't be helpful for us if we make it public. It will only cost us time making the announcements and answering questions about installations. This beta is at the moment just a framework and while it does work, it's still far from the end result.

Once we get to fine-tuning we will release a public beta. Until then you'll just have to keep patient http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

We will use single soldiers from manuscript images. This will enhance the medieval feel (IMO). I think that renderings, although nice looking, don't really fit the medieval ere.

Cheers, Duke John

Jason the Absentminded
06-30-2004, 22:52
I can't wait for this mod. Great work m8s. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
07-03-2004, 07:22
I loved your WoTR add-on and i'm really looking forward to this campaign.Will be very good for sure. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

12-10-2004, 10:21
I can't mod for .... but am entering into my school holidays soon, and will have 5 weeks with too much time on my hands. So if there are any annoying menial jobs I'd be happy to do them.

I could also help with the website.

12-16-2004, 17:31
is this still alive?

12-30-2004, 19:59

This is still alive, ive just been a little busy with family, work and christmas

Things should soon start to slow down abit, so I can get back to modding this.

03-08-2005, 21:13
Do you need any help setting up a web site for the mod? I can help with that.