kingdom of Incest

[Inuyasha12]

I was doing one of my experiments and i married 4 of my princesses with 4 of my princes. While the game warns you that it could be bad for you, ispend 30 years with this 'relationship' hidden in the family and nothing happened.

Can anything happen? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kongamato]

If memory serves it increases probability of negative vices and is not very popular with the people once it is exposed.

I'm not very qualified to answer this question, however.

[amir]

if you do that, a spy could find it and he will get a vicious vice reduces piety.

[Inuyasha12]

So basically you're giving enemy spys and inquisitors material to work with.

I also remember a V&V about it, though im not quite clear what it did?

[amir]

Quote[/b] ]So basically you're giving enemy spys and inquisitors material to work with.

excatly its like giving someone a loaded gun and tell him to shoot you, just in this case it can not only kill you but to create rebelions too.
i seggust you never to that unless you have a prince in power stance that wont be the next king and put him in a province with at least 3 assasin that could kill spies and inquisitors.

[Inuyasha12]

Yeah, but i did it on purpose to see what would happen. Its pretty funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[scooter_the_shooter]

i do that just to get them annoying priceses of the map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[scooter_the_shooter]

sorry i hit the button twice http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Maedhros]

a princess is only annoying if you reduce her shopping allowance.

If you don't want to pay it, marry her to a high performing general or governor and make it his problem.

[Papewaio]

I think six toes becomes more common... I tried a game that I saved as Dirty Danes to see what the consequences could be... lets just say you get plenty of heirs and inquistors are a nightmare... but either by luck or by good coding I found a lot more six toes... which even with no incest the English princes tend to get along with other weaknesses...

[Somebody Else]

I did this in a French campaign once - I couldn't be bothered to find princesses from other factions to marry, so I just married them off to each other. Why not, the Ptolemies did it... Besides. They were French.

It was quite amusing when I had my king with a vice saying he was in an incestuous relationship with his daughter...

Of course, the kings were all really rather abysmal, but they didn't have to do anything anyway - they just sat around doing nothing, whilst my other generals go on with conquering the world.

[amir]

if you have nothing to do with princess tell them to go marry a neutral or ally nation and hope (or actually do something) that their heirs and king will die all :)

[motorhead]

I haven't made marrying off my princesses to my princes a standard policy, but I recall other posts about this. The consensus was it didn't have any noticeable affect, other than the prince picking up the 'secret incest' vice. Royals get plenty of inbred or too-many-toes vices regardless of who they marry.

[amir]

Quote[/b] ]Royals get plenty of inbred or too-many-toes vices regardless of who they marry. thats because that in real history they usually married family memebers, although it wasnt daughts or sisters, they really did had a family connection

[Inuyasha12]

If they get caugth, deos it turn into something worse.

[Blodrast]

and really, the enemy spies/inquisitors are not much of a threat; inquisitors you should kill on sight anyway, to prevent them from ridding you of your good generals, and spies, well, i've never had reports of caught spies (now that i think of it, it's pretty strange; i mean, i have plenty of assassins caught, but no spies...weird).
so it's really not that big of an issue.

the only real inconvenience i can see is that when you have a good king (good as in high command), and your offspring are also good (within 1-2 stars from daddy) (thus making really good generals), the incest-related vices will ruin them for generalship, since most of them tend to reduce command by 1 or 2 stars...which will make them average at best.

[Lt Nevermind]

If the status of the vice is 'secret' it has no affect on any stats of the general/king. If it's revealed you get -5 piety (not that bad IMO). I think your king should do just as fine as a heir producer, incestious or not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif . I once runned a test campaign as the polish to see if you'd get more 'inbred' and such vices if you marry your princesses to your own princes (and eventually kings). From the whole campaign from early to 1453 I only saw one 'odd number of toes' with a prince, so I'd say it shouldn't lower the quality of your heirs.

[soibean]

Quote[/b] (ceasar010 @ June 25 2004,17:56)]i do that just to get them annoying priceses of the map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
oh yea
I cant stand when you go through one of those random times where no one wants to marry into your family and you cant give your girls away so you have 6 of them just sitting around

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Quote[/b] (Blodrast @ June 26 2004,13:24)]and really, the enemy spies/inquisitors are not much of a threat; inquisitors you should kill on sight anyway, to prevent them from ridding you of your good generals, and spies, well, i've never had reports of caught spies (now that i think of it, it's pretty strange; i mean, i have plenty of assassins caught, but no spies...weird).
so it's really not that big of an issue.

the only real inconvenience i can see is that when you have a good king (good as in high command), and your offspring are also good (within 1-2 stars from daddy) (thus making really good generals), the incest-related vices will ruin them for generalship, since most of them tend to reduce command by 1 or 2 stars...which will make them average at best.
Heh, your lucky if you get good kings, my english kings tend to suck. Well, I don't use them in battle, anyway, so...
And if you don't like a prince, send him and a unit of really weak cavalry into a provence manned by stacks of enemies and charge. He'll die, but you did a good thing, got rid of a potential bad king and gave him a glorius death.
-Capo

[Sarnaen]

My English kings (Starting in early period) are always great - great influence, command, acumen, dread, good piety.
But no matter how much I arrange marriages to keep my bloodline clean of inbreeding, I always seem to get incestuous vices for the royal family, and they're pretty drastic too. One of my crown princes was so badly inbred that I suffered a civil war due to the unhappiness he inflicted on the kingdom and the province he was in. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

The English must just have a messed up bloodline, because nothing seems to be able to solve this.

[Blodrast]

well, you can prune your royal tree, to some extent at least. My last king was really crappy, so I killed him as well as his only son, making one of his brothers the king (6star, bunch of acumen).

If it's a crappy king, it will likely be easy to kill.
And anyways, you can always send them into battle to get killed.

[Inuyasha12]

They might not even be good for that cause they will just run away from battle.

[Blodrast]

not immediately. and if they run, it's quite likely that they will get captured (which was what you wanted in the first place). just don't pay the ransom.

[Sarnaen]

I would prune the tree, but even the best branch is rotten.
I usually end up having to set up a civil war, led by a pure general. And even they eventualy descend into incest. It means forcing civil war once a century, just to keep the country led by a clean monarch. This, of course, makes running any long term conflicts difficult, as half the provinces you capture rebel.

[Inuyasha12]

Well that sucks when your kingdom is so bad a civil war is the only way to fix it.

[Sarnaen]

This is why I hate playing the English.
The French tend to get pretty badly affected by this too.
Muslim royalty seems to have a resistance to the allure of their own sisters, though, and I rarely see an inbred Turk, Egyptian or Almohad. Hence, I very rarely play as anything other than Egypt or Turkey now.

[Inuyasha12]

Why ,just because of that it doesn't mean you should limit yourself to the turks/egyptians.

That's a minor nuisance. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Sarnaen]

I don't limit myself to those two factions, I merely find it much more enjoyable to play. Everything in the game is fun, but having to force a civil war an a regular basis just to stop your heirs from degenerating into neanderthal men gets tedious after a while. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif
The Danes and the Italians, in my experience, commit incest much less. Must be all that sea air and olive oil.

[Inuyasha12]

I rarely have a civil war because of incest.
Its usually a problem of loyalty.
For me at least.

[Sarnaen]

Some incest vices reduce happiness in the province the prince / general is in or governs. This reduces the loyalty of the province, and causes rebellions and more widespread loss of influence, loyalty and happiness. It's like a domino effect.
I force a civil war by continually disgracing a powerful general, whom I then back in the civil war, so that I can replace the old royal family with the family of the rebel general, thus starting afresh and not having incest to worry about for a few generations.

[Inuyasha12]

only if the incest is found out.
It always starts as a secret incest
i think only a spy/inquisitor can turn it public

[The_Emperor]

The Byzantines are also very good for not getting the inbreeding vices... But they also have very high inluence and tend to churn out good quality heirs with either good command or good acumen.


Quote[/b] ]only if the incest is found out.
It always starts as a secret incest
i think only a spy/inquisitor can turn it public


Some of them can go public anyway I think regardless, so you need to watch out.

[Sarnaen]

Yeah, and thats the trouble. The AI swamps everywhere with inquisitors and probably spies. I don't know how they're built so fast http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
That, and the vices of princes being born six-toed and missing chins all adds up, and my line turns into a groaning horde of Quasimodo's on horseback.

[Inuyasha12]

Build assasins and kill the inqusitors and spys.
Or build those watchtower things, and border forts.

[Sarnaen]

I do.
Some always slip through the net, it's inevitable.
Ah well, I guess you've got to try and look on the bright side of watching your lineage mutate. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Inuyasha12]

Man Sarnaen you really have a serious problem with that don't you?

To tell ya the thruth i've never had a problem with civil wars, especially cause of incest.

[amir]

I had 2 civil wars both with the Germans

[Inuyasha12]

Did you cut and paste the response from the Civil war mayhem thread.

Man slow down. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

PS:so i can cath up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[king steven]

Quote[/b] (Maedhros @ June 25 2004,21:27)]a princess is only annoying if you reduce her shopping allowance.

If you don't want to pay it, marry her to a high performing general or governor and make it his problem.
lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/flat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[eds]

Any noticable affect on their kids? For example, if you have an incestous relationship between a king/princess, will all the princes lack toes (or a full set of grandparents for that matter)?

[LestaT]

Earlier on princess are got aliances. Then when I grew stronger I just reserve them for high star general with low loyalty level. It will surely raise their loyalty at least 2 stat.

One more thing if I suddenly find my king with no male heir left and he's 40 then I just marry one of the daughter to him and hopefuly to produce a male heir. There are many times that I lost the game just because I dont have a male heir even my empires almost spend from east to west.

[king steven]

Quote[/b] (LestaT @ July 04 2004,05:09)]One more thing if I suddenly find my king with no male heir left and he's 40 then I just marry one of the daughter to him and hopefuly to produce a male heir.
.unfreeze. will (hopefuly) produce an heir

[Maeda Toshiie]

.unfreeze. will (hopefuly) produce an heir

Gives a born son at the beginning of the next turn (ie you hit enter). If VI, a sound file will play if you enter correctly.

Any noticable affect on their kids? For example, if you have an incestous relationship between a king/princess, will all the princes lack toes (or a full set of grandparents for that matter)?

As Motorhead said, apparently no.

One more thing if I suddenly find my king with no male heir left and he's 40 then I just marry one of the daughter to him and hopefuly to produce a male heir. There are many times that I lost the game just because I dont have a male heir even my empires almost spend from east to west.

Marrying does not guarantee you a son. If you are desperate, the cheat code is available. It can also be used even if your king is unmarried (not likely).