The Temple

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Talk about general gameplay:maps,units,campaigns...

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[guess4762remix2]

any1 know how many and wht will the siege weapons be in htw??

[Julius Caesar]

As far as i know i there will be a battering ram, catapults, and ballista.

[LeChuck]

Will be a pass through ages in HTW, like in MTW?

[ParthianWarrior]

One more day.......This going to be a long one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[battousai]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif Let's call today June 30 and let her rip. It is the 30Th isn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Somewhere in Japan? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif

[ParthianWarrior]

Maybe they can release it at 12:00 AM..

[Cel]

Count Zimoa of Flanders said
Release date for:HTW v3.1 Beta


30th of June 2004 24:00 H.

Now is that EST USA, or perhaps since the count resides in belgium, thats according to what time it will be in belgium...i've been waiting for weeks for this release, when i found out about HTW they had the New version coming soon so i decided to hold off and not download 2.1...that was a mistake.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

When will the gerousia release it???

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[General Greene]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 2400 is midnight. So, one more day. Can't wait

[ChErNoByl]

Yes, June 30th at midnight. But midnight WHERE???

for me i have an hour and a half until june 30th midnight ... but when is HTW's midnight?

[Cel]

Exactly, in sydney austrailia right now its 1:49pm on june 30th...so knowing what time zone might help... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Well im going to sleep, hopefully it'll be up by morning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[Antalis::]

24.00 h CET (Central European Time -zone) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ParthianWarrior]

What's that in PST Time?

[Cel]

As i right this, here on the east coast of the us its 9.55am and in germany its 3.55pm, so only 8 more hours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

So at 3:oopm PST the mod should be up
and at 6:00pm EST

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[azid]

says on website new version is out? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Cel]

Im not sure why they put that on the main page, but its not correct, the link on the download page will go active at midnight central european time.

Its a little confusing, perhaps a new version will be out would be better http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

only 5 hours to go... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[azid]

i bet its done cant you just release now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
then we can all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Steppe Merc]

Wait... on the download page theres already a link, I click and it gives me an option to save or open... is it up already? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Steppe Merc]

I just downloaded it, and it looks great But I thought there was going to be an Alexander the Great Campaign... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Whatever, it looks awesome

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Look in the Historical Campaign(Three Campaigns) and Historical Battles(Twelve Battles) in single player.

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[General Greene]

Thanks Gerousia http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif Looks awesome New units, maps, descriptions, formation buttons, battles, etc., etc. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif You guys did a lot of work. Thanks again

[ChErNoByl]

YAYYYYYYYYY finally after much waiting

[ParthianWarrior]

It's taking a long time to download, But Im sure it's worth the wait. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Cel]

DL'ing now, can't wait

Thanks developers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif

[General Greene]

Well worth the wait The models are beautiful http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[youngturk]

where to download? i went to official web site but no download http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Acailia]

http://www.hellenictotalwar.com/pages/htw2pag.html

should be there at top left area, if you're using mozilla that might be a problem, at least mine gets angry at that page, java script stuff maybe? or just me, whatever.

downloading, whee. been waiting quite a while, since those first pics of alexander's battles were posted i went, ok time to stop playing 2.1 and wait for better one

[Steppe Merc]

Wow. I just played as the Macedonians, Classical, Hard. Incredible. I had an awesome battle between my forces and the Illirians. Having a mainly horse army, supported by the phanlax, I suffered on the map, wich was entirelly uphill for me, covered in trees. I won, but only to have Philip and all three of his heirs die. Can't wait to see more, and I'm lovin all the new units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[azid]

you rule almost as much as michael moore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[youngturk]

Thanks alot Acailia http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Acailia]

ha ha, I'm doing macedonian classical too, wonder if everyone is. Just so many new units for them, in older version they were a lot blander.

[UglyandHasty]

Great job with your mod gents What a blast to have chariot and elephant 2 thumbs up

[ParthianWarrior]

Very Excellent Mod guys, Two Thumbs up Indeed.

BTW, Question. Are the Companions Trainable, Or are they only in Custom battle?

[TigerVX]

Awsome, truely this is the greatest MTW mod, IN YOUR FACE ntw >=D. But seriously, I love it. The campgien is a blast more then ever, the new units and graphics are amazing, and I must say, the historical battles are fun. Even though I never liked them in MTW, I thought I was obligated to try them since Atlias worked so hard on them. I played Marathon so far, wow. I won, sufficed to say http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif. I forced Darius' archers and weak spears into a meat grinder battle as I formed a Phalanx and put Light Infantry on the side. As I charged, the archers fired off a few vollies, but my wall of spears quickly smashed their lines. The cavalry attempted to outflank me, but my light infantry held them. On the right side, the hoplites and Light infantry held, as in the middle my hoplites chipped away at the Persian war machine. On the left, The cavalry was coming about to smash my rear, and my Light infantry was on the verge of routing, when who should come but my ally to beat them back. Eventually, the Persians beat 3 units of my ally and took the left flank, while my Hoplites and Light Infantry had massacred the right flank. It all came down to the center, and my men tore the Persians to pieces. End of battle, 2500 dead persians, 1200 greeks (Both Athens and allies) Now let those Spartans come, so I may show them the Persian dead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Once again, this is the best mod ever

[spacedouthamster]

I was wondering is there a tech tree to help me know what i have to build and what bonuses i get for certain buildings in v3.1 also is there a unit list anywhere?

[ParthianWarrior]

Well.From the top of my head..The New Untis are..


Macedonian Phalanx
Macedonian Companions
Skythian Light Cavarly
Eastern Light Cavarly
Dacian Romfeori
Estes (Chariots)
Eastern Chariots
Persion Scythed Chariots
Indian Elephants

[azid]

this is a true success i think the mod plays great and i had no problems =)

[Ypoknons]

Truely it is a great achivement, this version Much innovation. The thing I've noticed though:

For slingers in custom battles, if I give them valour 1 or above as the Atheneans then their cost becomes negetive. Is this intention?

[ChErNoByl]

i truly had a great time in that one pelopponesian battle where you have a massive phalanx battle against thebes, because the computer actually made a battle line http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

then, by true phalanx warfare i put my best hoplites to the right and destroyed their puny army yah

[Gen_Lee]

I did a install over previos version of htw without any pbl. So far I getting used to the new icons for the production tree (Lovely 1, btw).

[flip]

Hi Lee, long time no see,
as a creator I advise you to follow the install proceedment of 3.1 version, you may not see troubles now but certainly they will come up in time, because of remaining old files.

[Shigawire]

Congratulations on 3.1 team. An outstanding job you've made.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

tittei

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[myces2000]

I have one question if someone can help me please?
I have a athlon 2100 processor, 512 ddr ram, 80 gigs
of memory, with a tnt 2 34 meg video card. I can
play the strategic map but during the battle part the
screen starts to freeze and jerk during the battle.
Before i got the athlon processor HTW worked great in
both settings (I had your basic dell). What can i do
to fix this problem. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

I think this is a hardware problem could be your CPU or graphic card, make sure you play the game on low specs and have the latest drivers, that is all advise i can give you or update your hardware...

CZoF

[myces2000]

Thankyou, i appreciate your help. HTW looks great in the old version i can not wait to get home to download the latest version. especially the elephants

[Perikles]

Well the new Troops and everything is cool
Still best Mod for MedievalTW

BUT the new music pack is horrible
destroys the whole ancient greece feeling
please put up the old music again
those European classics migth be used in Napoleonic mod- but
it doesn't fit herePlease change again to more greec styl music

And i also miss the maps included in the old Mappacks

well thats all - but still great mod and worth waiting for the update

[ParthianWarrior]

The Histroical battles are very fun also, Played Thermopalye last night, Almost as Accurate as the real battle, The Greek Allies retreated first, The Spartans reamined, Though the King and one other unit fled, One more stood there ground and fought through the rest of the Persian Army. Very fun battle.

I Think the Final Casulties were 282 to 1179. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

Also played Issus and Gaugemela..

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Quote[/b] ]And i also miss the maps included in the old Mappacks


All old HTW maps are redone and included in the full HTW v3.1 Beta.So no Map-pack because they are all in and all newly build already...

We never used any sound packs before so the older music was that of the MTW standard sound files...

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[Antalis::]

Zitat[/b] (Perikles @ Juli 01 2004,15:14)]Well the new Troops and everything is cool
Still best Mod for MedievalTW

BUT the new music pack is horrible
destroys the whole ancient greece feeling
please put up the old music again
those European classics migth be used in Napoleonic mod- but
it doesn't fit herePlease change again to more greec styl music

And i also miss the maps included in the old Mappacks

well thats all - but still great mod and worth waiting for the update
Yes most maps were reworked from the old mappack.

They have other names now, so that they can be used in the campaign itshelf.

Some maps are deleted, because I only wanted to have the best maps in.

But there are also very many new maps in the new beta.

[uksiu]

I was playing HTW before last one release.
And I feel lot of work done (in balance for example).

With new music, new icons and small graphics it's very very cool mod. I'm happy with new castles - now it's hard to assault them without preparing...

I like new parameters of units. For example javeliners are usefull now And rebellion factor is a good thing


---

If I have some impressions and doubt I wanted to share:

1. Gold. I have huge armies, I'm building and recruiting in whole my country and I have more then 20.000 income every year...
It's strange - I can buy whole enemy armies and I used to do that to get all this nice hoplites http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Nobody tried to buy my soldiers...
And will not, because I'm trying to kill every emmisary in my provinces

Maybe persian units are too cheap? (supply)

2. Where are oligarhic, monarchic, republic faction signs? It was very good idea

3. I changed some florins to G.C. ;)

PS Good work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Gen_Lee]

Flip I followed Your advise and made a brand new install over a Mtw+ vi +patch.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Steppe Merc]

The horses charge seem awfully... pathetic. How can hoplites have better charge than the companions? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[TigerVX]

WHY GOD, WHY DO YOU TORTURE ME? I was playing the Battle of Thermoplye, and I was almost winning. I had lost 250 Spartans, but all that was left of the Persian army was 4 Lydian Cavalry, 48 Royal Guards, and 26 Skythian Warbands. I was so lucky that game. Every time my last King unit was about to smashed in the rear, the Persians I was fighting routed, giving me enough time to counter charge. But when I was about to charge my 48 Spartans into their remnents, IT CTD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif . I was so close to changing the course of greek history This has happened a number of times to me in battles, its getting a bit irritating >> (This is on a clean VI installation, not a HTW 2.1 override.)

[flip]

Tiger are you using default size for armys?
It just appens in battle?

[komninos]

Quote[/b] ]Tiger are you using default size for armys?

If the size is not default them the game will CTD the minute you enter the battle not while you are at it. Plus in htis version there is not problems or there should be no problems where you have that setting since all units are not scalable.

Strange we will have to look in to that one.

[TigerVX]

Ya, I made sure to put my Unit Sizes on Default. its happened like 2 other times before. First when I was charging some Elephants at some Companions, and another time when I was charging some Chariots.

[flip]

Can you tell me your specs?
I suspect it is a graphic memory issue.

[TigerVX]

Too be honest, I don't really know >>. My computers a bit of a Frankenstine, since my Bro does all the computer stuff http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[uksiu]

I think playing Persia has no sens.

I'm not the king of strategy, but after 18 years I got all Asia Minor, 10 provinces on the other side of Dardanele, 3 armies of 5.000 men (with 20 units of hoplites, lydian infantry and other tough guys), 50 ships, spy in every province, assasin in every border province or province next to the sea (to kill every emissary from other countries), 5 emissaries buying 1-3 armies yearly (especially in castles), 270.000 GC, 34.000 income per year, I build and recruit without looking at costs in every province, buying every unit of merceneries.

The only challenge for Persian is to finish high period game in less than 50 years...
I know from last version of game that the challenge is to defeat Persians and eliminate them by greek faction. But with endless stream of money they can buy almost every army... If Persians start to build huge fleet, they cannot loose because only Asia Minor has 11 provinces able to build ships - circa 500 medium ships in 100 years. 9 provinces during this time build land forces, they can also buy armies...
But I'm looking forward some stories from campaign http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

---

I saw once CTD - huge battle (my 7.000 mixed forces against 9.000 Tracians). Game colapsed when I... changed the position of reinforcement flag http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Maybe it's just coincidence.

---

2 other small problems (I believe you know that thing):
- a figure symbolizing an army is not changing during attack, so when I assault the castle with a couple groups of units I don't know are everyone attacking
- lot of countries has grey color of their full stack termometer (a part of a figure symbolizing an army). Sometimes it's easy to make mistake...

---

This mod is almost perfect so don't be angry on my detail observation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Byzantine Prince]

I really like the mod too. But I expect more in the future, ok?
Like i would like to see EPIROTES for a change, ok?
they're more imporatant and more greek then thasians, ok?

[Cel]

I dont want to ruin anything for anyone, hopefully im just missing something, but while looking through the descriptions text, i came across several descriptions of trojan units, is there a historical battle, campaign or something with troy in it...again i hope im not spoiling anything... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif

Thanks alot, cel http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[flip]

Cel, Hi

komninos may speak better about this, but this are remaining stuff from a previous campaign Troy that is no longer included in this mod. An upcoming project mod may have something similar.

[Cel]

Ok, good, well atleast it puts that to rest, thanks for the quick response http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

so Its not included in the mod anymore, i can stop imagining sending trojan units into battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif
Thanks

[mercian billman]

Does anybody know what the proper unit depth is?

Im having trouble figuring this out, the unit sizes are huge if your using three units of immortals they could probably be stretched across the whole map in a line of 2.

To me it makes sense to keep units thick otherwise their unmanagable.

If anybody could post the optimum unit depth for Hoplites, Cavalry, Missle Troops etc. I would be very appreciative.

Thanks,
Billman

[TigerVX]

You can keep your mouse on some units for a while, and it will say Best in formations of 4 Or something like that. But spears that just say deep are most effect at 4 (2 to attack, 2 for reserve) I usually get the max attack, and use two reserve lines.

[Acailia]

few quick notes:

-skirmish Ai. I'm sure it's been asked at some point in the past, but is there any way to make AI units not default to skirmish mode? Mostly I'm thinking of the cavalry units that got a javelin added, in the end often in battles they're less effective when the AI is using them because of it, Illyrian cavalry etc used to be dangerous, but they just run while you kill them now. Maybe nothing can be done, probably not..oh well, worth checking.

-unit size issues? Seems often when trying to select and move cavalry units they have an invisible range far above them where they'll get selected if you click, is this just due to the sizing changes to accomodate elephants? Takes a bit of getting used to, messed me up a few times.

Enjoying the new version though greatly

[mercian billman]

Nubian Spearmen are so large if you put them into 4 ranks they become dificult to manuever. I think Hoplites and Macadeonian Phanlanxes should be in rows of 6 like (Pike units in MTW) not sure though.

[Acailia]

oh yes, forgot to mention...oxil...err, the 4 man mobile ballista guys, are probably a bit too melee strong. i absorbed a charge of most of an athenian army with 16 of them without any losses, was pretty funny. dunno respective valors though, and they do rack it up fairly fast, but still

[LeChuck]

I think the Persians are way to strong, the game is a bit unbalanced between east and west too manny factions in west and only 2-3 factions in the east, maybe if you set the eastern provinces incomes very low or something like that, cause in classical era is pretty annoying to spent 30-40 years in battles for 4-6 provinces and after that the persians will attack you with tones of arms, and maybe if you reduce the time for training hoplites and others types of soldiers, cause is imposibble to train land army and naval army in same time in resonable quantities.

Annyway this is a great mod, the graphic part I think is much better than in original MTW, and the feeling too.

[King Azzole]

The trick is to leave your greek neighbors alone at the start, and concentrate on choosing a side between the persians and lydians. Classical isa bit different, and i dont like the 100 year cap. But pro classic and geometric I usually choose the side of whoevers navy won, then I help them finish off the other person. This gives me lots of land in asia minor.

[PSYCHO]

Currently playing as Athens. Followed the traditional rout.

Boetians attacked early on. Gave me a bit of a scare with alot of Theban Sacred Band guys. Held them off and then destroyed them with help from my Argos (sp?) allies.
Then built up infrastructure, built up a huge fleet and then joined with the Corinthians to land on Asia Minor and invade Persian lands. All is going well so far.

The only prob I have is that when there’s a joint assault by allies, if the allies win, the faction with most troops then gets to keep the province and the other is forced to ransom back their own victorious force. Is there some way that this could be fixed? I don’t know how many times allies have joined in an attack of mine, we win and then I’m forced to buy back my troops from my allies

[AggonyDuck]

I think the peltasts could use more ammo, they way too ineffective in my opinion. Doubling their ammo is a must, because at the moment I'll always take a unit of archers or heavy slingers in their place... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[TigerVX]

I think the amount of ammo is fine. I use their Javilens like Pilas, and then later use them as flankers, or tactical reservers should a crisis arise.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Psycho,that is a code problem in MTW nothing that we can fix...

CZoF

[AggonyDuck]

Yes, but I'd rather not commit my Peltasts to a melee with Hoplites because they suffer heavy losses against them even though they're attacking the rear.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Omegamann]

If you are talking about Thracian Peltasts, I know it takes some time to perform well with them.
Though they can cope with most infantry realy nicely and have good moral, but they can only overpower hoplites when at a roughly 3:1 advantage.

Their main advantage is speed, so retreat before the enemys
attacks and try to splitt the AI army appart.
Also know that you can swamp the hellenic provinces with peltasts as hoplites take a while to be trained.

In cooperation with the heavy (royal) thracian cavalery its quite possible to tire out and rout a complete hoplite army.

You just have to be very patient http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Great mod everyone http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif Just began playing today (where did the time go??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif ) and I must say, this is awesome. I would like some clarifications, though.

First, is there a tech tree? That would just make my day. And I need it.
Second...
I was playing as Macedon on Geometric and I captured the provinces next to your starting ones (I know zero names, all are new to me). I couldn't build past the fort level of buildings. That is, I couldn't get the keep-like castle building. Is that a mistake? Or am I just not building something???
Third: How soon will you guys finish this thing?? I can't wait http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
4th: do the persians have any good spear? I look for a few seconds in pro-classic and didn't find any
5th: are there time periods, like in MTW, that let you make better units? If so, when?

Simply stunning game. You've won a new convert (and have stolen my free time for a looooong while) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[GreasePaintMonkeyBrains]

Great Mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

I just came back from a lan party and we played
HTW to 3 days straight and i must say multiplayer
is funMy freinds and i are now playing a spartan
pbm.

One question Polmiste ( please excuse the spelling)
What is the best way to use them. The Unit prod says
they are spear units but they seem to fight better in
engage at will ???

also i saw some early roman units posted a while back
are you guys still gonna have a roman invasion campaign?

Also i assume the trojan wars campaign will not work with
HTW 3.1 so it would be great to add that campaign in the
final release

Cheers thanks for all the hard work

GPMB

[rlccohen]

Quote[/b] (LeChuck @ July 05 2004,02:37)]I think the Persians are way to strong, the game is a bit unbalanced between east and west too manny factions in west and only 2-3 factions in the east, maybe if you set the eastern provinces incomes very low or something like that, cause in classical era is pretty annoying to spent 30-40 years in battles for 4-6 provinces and after that the persians will attack you with tones of arms, and maybe if you reduce the time for training hoplites and others types of soldiers, cause is imposibble to train land army and naval army in same time in resonable quantities.

Annyway this is a great mod, the graphic part I think is much better than in original MTW, and the feeling too.
The Persians are definitely tough. Historically they are supposed to be I guess. I was able to wear them down by sacrificing a series of armies as I fell back. So if I was able to get them to spread out as they advanced and was able to get them to lose 4 to 5 X my losses, at some point I was able to counterattack.

Later in the game I was able to reduce them by bribing a series of persion armies. Even though the bribed army would lose the battle (I wasn't able to bribe enough), it still wore them down.

[CID007]

Hi guys,

for Alexander : you have to build the provinsial estate in order to build the keep (it's the only degree castle that depend on a buildings that are not a castle) ;

for Riccohen : I disagree with you, because i'm playing a campaign with the Lacedemonis (the Spartans) and, surely the Persians can create a huge army, but don't let you keep in mistake, because tha power of hoplites balance the situation
So, with few men, I was able to win some battles, besides, with naval blocks and bribings, I can take under control their expansion

Anyway, any doubt is right that we discuss... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ....or not ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

Bye bye.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Thanks, CID007, I will try that right away
And the Persians aren't that great because their spears = crap Everything else is just filler (most of it, anyway). That is, according to my humble opinion, anyway.

Just amazing mod. Can't stop singing praises. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Byzantine Prince]

yea but they reprodude their armies all the time and even if wear them down they're still gonna make more and you are going to lose more land and the war will last forever and ever and ever.... Anyways I always try to avoid that because its really tiring.

[ParthianWarrior]

The Persians seeme a bit too weak for me...

[Steppe Merc]

You gotta use your numbers, and use the better ones (immortals, elephants, chariots, royal cav, etc.) And hire Greek mercanaries.

[ParthianWarrior]

Main problem is..I Always get my butt kicked by the Athenians when I attempt to take the Ionian Coast. I Use those troops also.

[rlccohen]

Quote[/b] (CID007 @ July 07 2004,01:44)]Hi guys,

for Alexander : you have to build the provinsial estate in order to build the keep (it's the only degree castle that depend on a buildings that are not a castle) ;

for Riccohen : I disagree with you, because i'm playing a campaign with the Lacedemonis (the Spartans) and, surely the Persians can create a huge army, but don't let you keep in mistake, because tha power of hoplites balance the situation
So, with few men, I was able to win some battles, besides, with naval blocks and bribings, I can take under control their expansion

Anyway, any doubt is right that we discuss... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif ....or not ? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

Bye bye.
I'm playing the Lacedemonis too and I agree to some extent but there do seem to be limits. Somewhere around a 4-1 advantage and it starts to get dicey at least for me. This is my first game so when 26k Persians came rolling down the pike and I had an army of about 5-7k Spartans I didn't want to risk it all on one battle.

Just as challenging though was when half of Greece revolted with most of best armies in Asia Minor. Talk about the march of the ten thousand.

I was waiting for Rome Total War but this mod has made the wait a breeze

[CID007]

Hi guys,

I see that the matter about the huge amounts of Persian armies, interests many of you, so, I wish to put here some suggestions, useful to win the Persian Empire :

1) try to make more alliances as well as possible with the Greek factions, in order to not make the war each other ;
2) in order to create a big army, before invade the Persian regions, conquer as many rebel regions as possible, that, quite often, are created by internal faction rebellions ;
3) create merchant ships, for improving your incomes, and war ships to take controls of the Asian coasts, because if the Persian armies manage to land in Europe, the game is over
4) create many emissaries, for bribing the Persian armies little loyal : when they will pass from your part, a battle will start;
be careful : accept the fighting but don't fight
when the battlefield is on, and you start the battle, select all your troops (CTRL+A) and order the withdrawn (CTRL+W) ;
in the end, the game will ask if you want to pay a bill in order to ransom your troops : PAY
It doesn't matter that you spend a lot of money (but don't overdo to spend the money of course ) but you will detract troops from the Persians and will make growing your armies, and the Persians, without over seas trade, cannot last for much time

Of course, it takes many turns : in the while, you have to grow the morale, the weapon and the shield of your troops, besides, you have to conquer some asian region in order to dectract creating troops centres, etc... but I didn't manage to discover another solution to beat a terrifying army like the Persian army.

See you

El Cid.

[LeChuck]

Question: the money from trade come only from trade ships or warships count too in trade routs?

[CID007]

There's no difference if you use warships or merchant ships for trade or for troops movements : change only the strenght of attack and defence, if you are under attack or want to engage a naval battle.

[rlccohen]

Quote[/b] (CID007 @ July 08 2004,03:03)]Hi guys,

I see that the matter about the huge amounts of Persian armies, interests many of you, so, I wish to put here some suggestions, useful to win the Persian Empire :

1) try to make more alliances as well as possible with the Greek factions, in order to not make the war each other ;
2) in order to create a big army, before invade the Persian regions, conquer as many rebel regions as possible, that, quite often, are created by internal faction rebellions ;
3) create merchant ships, for improving your incomes, and war ships to take controls of the Asian coasts, because if the Persian armies manage to land in Europe, the game is over
4) create many emissaries, for bribing the Persian armies little loyal : when they will pass from your part, a battle will start;
be careful : accept the fighting but don't fight
when the battlefield is on, and you start the battle, select all your troops (CTRL+A) and order the withdrawn (CTRL+W) ;
in the end, the game will ask if you want to pay a bill in order to ransom your troops : PAY
It doesn't matter that you spend a lot of money (but don't overdo to spend the money of course ) but you will detract troops from the Persians and will make growing your armies, and the Persians, without over seas trade, cannot last for much time

Of course, it takes many turns : in the while, you have to grow the morale, the weapon and the shield of your troops, besides, you have to conquer some asian region in order to dectract creating troops centres, etc... but I didn't manage to discover another solution to beat a terrifying army like the Persian army.

See you

El Cid.
I agree with you about bribery. It siphons off troops both in terms of the battles they create and the troops you buy. I pay the ransom and send them right back into battle as fodder.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I has another question... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

What are all those buildings for??? Like the palestra (?) gym-type buildings. It says they give valor, but to whom? Same for the government estates and palaces. To whom do they bestow their valor bonuses? And the philosopher school. Is that there just for history??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

I could figure these out by myself, but I haven't been in a situation to pump out buildings (my Macedonians are currently fighting the Illyian horde and I can't spare building time for things that don't help armor or units).

Thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Use Gnome editor or Dragon editor and have a look in the Hellenic_build_prod2 file that is in your HTW main directory.Here you have all the building info.For the units have a look in the Hellenic_unit_prod2 for further info.

Gnome is in this list:

http://www.mizus.com/Tools/Files/

Dragon is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....92;st=0 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=19592;st=0)

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[Steppe Merc]

Is there a reason why the northern tribes don't have emmesaries? It's a bit rough on them...

[youngturk]

Steppe Merc:

Here Here I'm playing the illirians and it is truly rough. I reduced the build-time for light chariot to 2 turns. I figure the pagans' only chance to win is in true Horde fashion----masses upon waves of troops. I usually win but with a 3:1 loss ratio; maybe more if fighting Spartan,Argian or Athenian hoplites with armour and weapon upgrades---then you need to look forward for upto a 10:1 loss ratio. At least, that has been my game play experience.

[Steppe Merc]

Playing as the Thracians, my army is just being devasted just fighting the Peonans in Geometric. I'm using a well rounded mix of Northern War bands and Thracians peltalts, with a strong wing of cavalry and chariots. But they outnumber me so much, I lose from 1,000 - 2,000 men each big battle. I can't find any hoplite mercs, so I have no spearmen, which doesn't help at all. I just hope my Greek allies don't invade. And once the Eastern factions finish fighting, I'm dead if they invade. Oh well, it's quite fun. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[ah_dut]

hello, just a newbie to this particular forum, but IMO shouldn't the Spartans get a bunch of mega powered hoplites, they were like that historically. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif thanks GTG https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-zzz.gif it's nearly midnight here https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

0.0

have you played as Sparta yet? If not try a battle with a unit of Spartan Enomotia.

[Despot of the English]

Hello. I am a HTW newbie and would really appreciate some tips on using chariots in battle. They seem incredibly expensive so I'd like to use them properly.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Ah_dut,

I think we know about the Spartans Hoplites M8...
The Spartans(Lakedemonians) Enomotia appear from the Pro Classical Campaign on.
So start your campaign from there or start the Geometric period and wait...


CZoF https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[komninos]

Hi all,

In this link (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/HTW-files.zip) you can find a first attempt to get all the units and buildings in a file.
This is an XLS file. In the first part you get the unit information and in the second the buildings and there upgrades.

[ah_dut]

Sorry, just had a look in gnome again, yes, they are there. But i've seen them but they on the screen which doesn't provide the whole story seem to be exactly the same as other hoplites.
Also one more point and thanks for the gr8 mod, is there any way to make spartan hoplites hold in formation for longer, to enchance their killing abilities? i believe historically, they were able to hold the linme better. So could u raise the morale and make the formation packed tighter on the move in the next release? thx gtg

[rlccohen]

Quote[/b] (ah_dut @ July 21 2004,16:46)]Sorry, just had a look in gnome again, yes, they are there. But i've seen them but they on the screen which doesn't provide the whole story seem to be exactly the same as other hoplites.
Also one more point and thanks for the gr8 mod, is there any way to make spartan hoplites hold in formation for longer, to enchance their killing abilities? i believe historically, they were able to hold the linme better. So could u raise the morale and make the formation packed tighter on the move in the next release? thx gtg
They seem quite powerful. I wonder if it should take 4 years to develop a unit of spartan hoplites instead of 3.

[komninos]

Well initially the Spartan Enomotia had 4 years but it seem way to long. I was thinking to put real time to build units so all Hoplites have 3 Spartans have 5-6 Thebian ~4 but that was really too much. Barbarians and most Eastern units should have 2 years then.

I can’t really help how the units behave during combat it is mostly MTW stuff. But too keep them in a good formation we have reduced there charging speed to just above walking so in a charge they will have a good tight formation.

[Despot of the English]

Never mind about those chariots. I've got it all worked out.

[ah_dut]

@kominos, what's the differance apart from cost between all the hoplites apart from the spartans, they all look a bit similar

[Sir Moody]

The Spartans are Stronger more Powerful - top of the pile
The Atheneans are Stronger than classic
The Scared band is as Strong as the Atheneans
The Argian Hoplite has more Armour than a classic
the Classic is the bottom of the pile

[komninos]

Hi ah_dut,

Well Moody put it all down but missed one point the Thebian Secred band has a lot more moral than the rest. Please refer to this file for production data (http://users.otenet.gr/~timoleon/HTW-files.zip) it took me some time to make it and has all the latest info.

[ah_dut]

ahh... i see i'm enlightened https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

[Byzantine Prince]

Quote[/b] ]ah_dut Posted on July 22 2004,08:14@kominos, what's the differance apart from cost between all the hoplites apart from the spartans, they all look a bit similar


They don't look the same, they have different shields my little buddy. Even if the little costumes were changed you wouldn't notice so it would be useless.

[Pericles]

Just wanted say THANK YOU

Great job.

I have had some great battles playing as the Spartans.

All you who have worked on this Mod have done an outstanding job.

Cheers

[Blacklisted]

Ok is it just me or are the persians the weakist and most useless faction around. Maybe its jsut me but they seem so infiror to the greek states in every way excpt in archers.
my proof?

My first campian was with the Macedonian states and after a while persian armys of about 26 000 men or larger start showing up in greece. Feeling like a challange i deside to fight teh entire arm which for some reason bunchs up in indivual provinces. My 5000 some troops take on the persians on a flat battle ground and for an hour and a half i slaughter everything they send at me. No matter how many groups they send at me they manage to only kill about 500-600 of my troops before i get bored at the tedium of mascuring thousands of aperently weak units. in teh end i withdrawl my troops and find out ive killed 16 000 men on one go before i got bored.

Thinking this was just due to the shoddy computers fault i play the persian campain and get annalated by teh Athieans within 20 turns. WHAT THE HELL, I use Chariots thinking they will distroy the army only to realize they are posibly the best looking but also the worst unit in the game. bah.

Are the persians designed to be crappy just because they couldnt beat teh greeks historicly or am i just playing badly

sorry to rant and pick out things in tthis brillient mod but i thought this problem might need adressing

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Look and read here:


Persians can win (https://forums.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=38;t=20182)



CZoF https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[saundersag]

i have been playing htw avidly however i have found that the peoneans have very limited troops. Also in the geometric era they have no exclusive troops

[ivar]

First off, love the mod. the biggest problem is the near infinite money every faction seems to reap. I think the problem comes from having each province have so many trade goods, with so many provinces.

I've never had to worry about money, and have built the most expensive unit I can in every province every turn. My enemies seem to be doing the same. This takes a lot of the strategy out of the game. I like to have to balance my budget and manage my army. Why would you ever build a cheaper unit in HTW, when money is never a problem. Doesn't this make skirmishers, slingers, peltasts, etc. nearly useless? Please address this soon in the next version, or allow the users to edit the income levels somehow.

Thank you!

[komninos]

Apparently there are many how say this so I will reduce the costs and make a small patch available for testing. Just wait a bit on that cause I am experimenting with other things at the moment.

[jimmyM]

It's been said alot before (probably because it's deserved), but the mod is amazing, thankyou very much. The persians sport pretty useless troops, but with the right amount of flanking+bribery of hoplite armies+use of overwhelming numbers and revenue, it can be done (the link to "persians can win" dosn't work, for some reason) and they're worth it for some very interesting looking units...

[komninos]

Well this must be due to the money problem. Greeks should be fielding armies with ~8 units while Persians 16+ to make things even or close to what it used to be. At the moment is that AI makes all skirmish unit flee in the site of enemy Persians stood there ground till they were routed. This is an AI problem no one can tackle ~:( and makes life difficult with just 8 units.
Any way I will reduce the trade income to ½ and see what happens.

[ivar]

I reduced all the trade gods value to half and reduced the base value of the starting privinces by half, and things are more balanced, but still a little too rich. I think if you half the base province values and reduce trade goods to 25%-50% of normal values, this mod would be much, much better.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

Kom check your PM, we will build a test add-on with reduced income for the test team,if the A1 army build up is still ok we should implement it in the final version.
Thanks Ivar for your input...

LZoF ~:cheers:

[Achilles]

In which Era and which factions are the Early Roman Units.

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

The Aetolians in Classical only in MP and Custom battle.

LZoF

[Ldvs]

I've been playing your great mod for a week or so, and have paid careful attention to the shields. I noticed that for a few units like the Thebian bands and the Spartans the shield bonus (shield modifier 0.75 for Thebian and 0.5 for Spartans) doesn't appear in their stats when playing a battle, meaning they only get the "raw" defence and armor stats and not a +1 for both defence and armor. (They both use their shields in melee)

Therefore, they get slaughtered by either the Macedonians' or the Atheneans' unique units (they get both a +2 in defence and armor thanks to a shield modifier 1) .

Maybe I've missed something about the shield modifier bonus. Could someone be kind enough to explain it to me in case I'm wrong ~:rolleyes:

[Ldvs]

I can hardly believe it, but it seems the problem solved itself. I had just made a few changes in the stats and then put the former ones and now it works ~:shock: I really don't know how this could have happened, maybe it only did to me ~:(

[vodkafire]

Are the Macedonian Phalanxes worth it? I know they are better than regular hoplites in attack but to deploy them to their full potential you have to deploy them 12 ranks deep(1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup). Deploying them this deep makes it not only difficult to manuever(not to mention the annoying draggin the unit across the map and counting the ranks, making sure it's 12, since their default formation is 8 or 10 deep for some reason) but also cover a very small area. Also, being so deep makes it very easy to flank and devastating when flanked, not to mention difficulty in keeping your men tight. This is similar to the pikemen problem in MTW but alot worse(only 6 ranks for pikemen, not 12). So anyone else hate to play them or want to teach me how to use them? I get real anal with these things and must get them to be exactly 12 ranks deep everytime i move them, which, as you can imagine, can get very annoying(i dont know, maybe there's a hotkey i missed). How does anyone else use them?

[Oleander Ardens]

Well Vodkafire, I don't have HTW right now, but I played a lot around with Pikemen in general, so I might have a nice way to use them...


There is no perfect pikeformation, but at least three good variants IMHO.

a) Hold the line: 6 ranks suffice against medium infantry and are able to hold the line for a decent period. They get +4 defense, + 4 charge and +2 defense..

b) Jack of all trade: 9 ranks provide very good protection and good attack. Such formations work very against good infantry and will bite hard. + 8 defense, + 8 charge, + 4 attack are very nice indeed. Best used against good-very good infantry when you are pike-heavy..

c) Spearhead: This is your offensive pike-arm. With the incredible rankbonus and the good Mac. stats it should be devasting frontally and be your spearhead. + 10 defense, +10 charge and + 5 attack are well enough to make big holes into enemy lines. It's very small frontage makes good flankprotection necessary, possibly with Mac phalangites in "Hold the line" 6 rank deep formation to cover enough space. Light offensive troops behind the "Spearhead" can also help to widen the gap and to protect the flanks of it.

I did something similar with 256 men units of pikemens in my small MTW-mod against a friend of mine. We used Pike/Halb formations with little arbelast/cav support. The charge of the Pikemen is simply devastating. I used a unupgraded 256 man unit of Swiss Pikemen against three JHI with 6 support ranks for the Phalanx. The SAP's simply marched over the central JHI unit, killing 33 with their charge alone, causing a immediate rout... ~:eek:


Cheers

OA

[Ldvs]

Are the Macedonian Phalanxes worth it? I know they are better than regular hoplites in attack but to deploy them to their full potential you have to deploy them 12 ranks deep(1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup). Deploying them this deep makes it not only difficult to manuever(not to mention the annoying draggin the unit across the map and counting the ranks, making sure it's 12, since their default formation is 8 or 10 deep for some reason) but also cover a very small area. Also, being so deep makes it very easy to flank and devastating when flanked, not to mention difficulty in keeping your men tight. This is similar to the pikemen problem in MTW but alot worse(only 6 ranks for pikemen, not 12). So anyone else hate to play them or want to teach me how to use them? I get real anal with these things and must get them to be exactly 12 ranks deep everytime i move them, which, as you can imagine, can get very annoying(i dont know, maybe there's a hotkey i missed). How does anyone else use them?


Use them in the default formation, where did you see they must be in a 12 ranks deep? In game you're told that they do their best in 6 ranks deep or deeper, not 12.

[vodkafire]

Use them in the default formation, where did you see they must be in a 12 ranks deep? In game you're told that they do their best in 6 ranks deep or deeper, not 12.

If you read Hellenic_unit_prod2.txt it says 10 supporting ranks. 1 fighting + 10 supporting + 1 backup(when the front ranks die) = 12

Thanks oleander, very good observations, especially if you dont have to worry about flanking as much as in MTW.

[Ldvs]

I didn't notice that, i must admit i don't pay attention to this since i find the default hoplite formations quite handy like they are. As you said it, it must not cover a vast area ~D , therefore have a poor efficiency.