Best unit in CLASS

[dessa14]

Choose

[mercian billman]

It's really close between Steppe Cav and AMC but I chose Steppes because of their versatility. They can be used as either slower and heavier light cav or in the role of faster and weaker light cav according to Froggy's guide. Also unlike AMC you can actually use them in the SP game.

[Mablung]

You can pick up AMC in single player IIRC in Georgia and Khazar with and inn - if your lucky. I go Alans http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[PseRamesses]

Def Alan Merc

[amir]

From a weird reason i does'nt even know i like hobilars

[ah_dut]

amir, the english and french can get them. Alan Mercs rock

[amir]

yes, i know only Eng and french can get 'em, and that alan is stronger but i like them, as i said, i does'nt even know why

[Servius]

you gotta give it up for the Hobilar.

Available in Early
Only takes 4 turns (1st crop + 1st Horse) to get them
Two of those turns help your economy
No armor so they don't tire as quickly
Given that their job is not to break the enemy but just to run them down, they're great.

Though I would have chosen Jinites over Hobilars if they were an option. I really think Jinites are more Light Cav than Horse Archer.

[neal]

i think mounted seargents are best.because they look cool..

[Doug-Thompson]

What is the only unit in this poll that has a province valor bonus available anywhere on the map?

Saharan cav.

Alan mercs are great -- if you can find one. Their limited availability more than trumps all their other merits.

None of the other units can beat a Saharan Cav that has a +1 valor advantage. And the SC is faster than some of those. When the other units rout because of their lower, non-bonused morale, few of them are going to get away.

[Blodrast]

it's probably arguable whether jinettes should appear here or not, but as light cavalry goes, i think they kick butt.
i would give them extra points for being so versatile - not only you can use them for chasing down routers and as anti-missile cavalry, but also:
- they're _really_ fast
- they can hold their own pretty well (for light cav)
- they have those crazy javelins (only 4 shots, sure, but you can put them to good use). Combined with the fact that you can't always bring big heavily armoured units (kata's, knights, royal ppl) in your arbs' range, these are among the best armour/royalty killers everywhere...

Almost forgot: I was never bothered in particular by Alan's (which only proves Doug's point, they are too rare to make a difference), or Hobilars, but hey, how many of you have had their general/prince/king/whatever slaughtered by a few jinettes ?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Voted for Alan Mercs because whenever I could get them in SP (Byz campaign in early gives you one unit to start) they are commando cavalry - drive off HAs, flank everything, decent morale. Sadly too physically weak, but they are light cavalry.

For Single Player, when it's just about impossible to get Alan Mercs, I would have to go with hobilars. Even though only Brits and French get them, they are still pretty darn good. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[Tricky Lady]

Saharan cav is the only unit on this list that caused me some serious headache when I faced them.

But this can be due to my poor tactical skills http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] (Tricky Lady @ June 26 2004,17:49)]Saharan cav is the only unit on this list that caused me some serious headache when I faced them.

But this can be due to my poor tactical skills http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
I hope that by that smiley that you're kidding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

But Alans are definitely the best, they just look good, fast and strong. Steppes came close, they also look good and really fast and in my army anyway, they have high kills. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[dessa14]

if there is any, which i am sure there is, post here with the ones i missed.
thanks, dessa

[Servius]

Spanish Jinites

[amir]

If they were an option i would have definetly choose the jinets, they are killing maching, if they only had more than 4 javelins they were able to fight even gothics knights (attack and withdraw(they are faster))

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (amir @ June 27 2004,18:15)]If they were an option i would have definetly choose the jinets, they are killing maching, if they only had more than 4 javelins they were able to fight even gothics knights (attack and withdraw(they are faster))
m8, meet the berber camel, the jinete slaughtering crew http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[mfberg]

Viking RaiderCav, PictishCav (rebellion in scotland is the only way to get them)

Of those listed I like SteppeCav followed by Saharan/Pictish (identical stats), I don't use the slow light cavs much after Early, but the faster ones still chase down routers in Late.

mfberg

[amir]

Quote[/b] ]m8, meet the berber camel, the jinete slaughtering crew

but berber camels can only be builted in north afrika and Egypt area, so they are pretty limited to locations, also you will almost never have a too hard cav fight in the desert because the AI wont get there, and using the berber at attack is not very effective on anywhere which is not desert.
the jinnets for difference can be built every where, and because they are unarmored they are good at both desert and not desert.
so yes berber are good vs cav but they are very, very limited.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (ah_dut @ June 27 2004,20:39)]m8, meet the berber camel, the jinete slaughtering crew
Yeah but those jinettes can easily outpace those slow Camels... Sure they may be cav archers but those Jinettes have major speed.

Simply lure them camels within range of my archers and they will soon be experiencing how much protection desert cloth provides http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (amir @ June 28 2004,10:59)]
Quote[/b] ]m8, meet the berber camel, the jinete slaughtering crew

but berber camels can only be builted in north afrika and Egypt area, so they are pretty limited to locations, also you will almost never have a too hard cav fight in the desert because the AI wont get there, and using the berber at attack is not very effective on anywhere which is not desert.
the jinnets for difference can be built every where, and because they are unarmored they are good at both desert and not desert.
so yes berber are good vs cav but they are very, very limited.
it is i've whooped a hell of a lot of spanish rear end in spain with berbers

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 28 2004,11:31)]
Quote[/b] (ah_dut @ June 27 2004,20:39)]m8, meet the berber camel, the jinete slaughtering crew
Yeah but those jinettes can easily outpace those slow Camels... Sure they may be cav archers but those Jinettes have major speed.

Simply lure them camels within range of my archers and they will soon be experiencing how much protection desert cloth provides http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
i'm not that stupid to let the AI do that to me The_Emperor, that's what merc longbows are for http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Divine Wind]

Alans anytime, anywhere. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Jinette speed vs. Berbers.

Berbers can lure jinettes into foot archer range as easily as they can be lured. And the point has already been made that you can't rely on your enemy to blunder into your archers all the time. You can't win by running away all the time, either.

Jinettes are very good units. I don't deny that. I'd even argue they are better "all around" units than Berbers. However, Berbers are the one unit Jinettes can't cope with. Berbers seriously outrange jinettes. If jinettes close the range to throw javelins, the Berbers just charge. Even camels are fast enough for that.

Almohads are the only faction with Berbers, though, and Spain should destroy them quickly anyway.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]i'm not that stupid to let the AI do that to me The_Emperor, that's what merc longbows are for

Your talking pretty late in the game then... But the fact remains that Spain has the ability to produce Jinettes way before Berbers can stomp them effectively.

As such you have to rely on a different unit to counter jinettes for a chunk of the game before you are able to build a Bowyer's Guild or whatever is required to produce Berbers and then crank out enough of them.

Jinettes are very low in their requirements (just a Horse Breeder) and you can crank them out right away... They are useful in all terrain (unlike Berbers who suffer penalties in Lush and Temperate terrain) and are a much better all round purchase in my book.

The best light cav (Well behind the Alans) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 29 2004,07:54)]But the fact remains that Spain has the ability to produce Jinettes way before Berbers can stomp them effectively.
Not when I play the Almohads. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ June 29 2004,14:24)]
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 29 2004,07:54)]But the fact remains that Spain has the ability to produce Jinettes way before Berbers can stomp them effectively.
Not when I play the Almohads. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
A real challenge that... All those AI Jinettes who never melee. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[MadKow]

I would go for Jinetes also. Fast, good harassers, and if you have them in teams of 2-3 units you can even engage them in melée with some degree of confidence, normally they can surround the target unit and make it rout.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 29 2004,09:08)]A real challenge that... All those AI Jinettes who never melee. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
If Jinettes could melee Berbers without getting creamed, you'd have a point.

[Blodrast]

ofc the berbers can kill jinettes (in the desert). That's not the point, every unit has a counter unit, right ?
Camels can kick any cav's ass in the desert, but that's really not that much of an issue, because you will never throw horses against camels in the desert, will you ?
And really, the issue of berber vs jinettes only appears in the desert. Once out of North Africa, those camels aren't worth http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Now keeping in mind that 75% or more of the provinces on the map are NOT desert, that makes the jinettes more useful overall.
But of course there is no perfect unit, and each have their strengths and weaknesses. I just believe that overall jinettes are more useful, is all ;)

[Oleander Ardens]

Well Berber against Jenittes is a really strange duel, possible the strangest one can find in MTW.

Due to range and the factor camel the Berber should win both the ranged duel and the melee. But the Jenittes can really wroke havoc once they close in due to superior speed and throw their Javs. Still a countercharge may drive them off, but the Jenittes can run away, only to have to close in again as the Berber can punish them from afar... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

...in the end the HI controlled unit wins http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

This thread is way off topic, and it's mostly my fault. Sorry.

Nobody's going to classify a Berber camel as "light" cavalry, so the Berber vs. Jinette topic is pretty pointless in this thread's context.

The first real question is, are jinettes light cavalry? Clearly the answer to that is yes. They have very good melee stats for a unit of their cost and tech requirements. They are something more and different than missile cavalry. Vanilla HA, for instance, don't have decent melee.

The second question is, are jinettes the best light cavalry? Again, I'd say yes. They are the best because they alone, of all the units mentioned in this thread, pose a serious threat to armored units in general and armored knights in particular.

Alan mercs may beat jinettes 1 vs. 1, but Alan rarity undercuts all their other advantages.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]Alan mercs may beat jinettes 1 vs. 1, but Alan rarity undercuts all their other advantages.


Indeed, I have played a few campaigns and only on a couple of times have i seen Alan merc cav for hire in my Inns...

At any rate jinettes can make for your biggest cav headache on the field. Even Horse archers are not as annoying as those guys

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ June 29 2004,12:54)]At any rate jinettes can make for your biggest cav headache on the field. Even Horse archers are not as annoying as those guys
That's the biggest worry with jinettes. Even if they cause no casualities, the threat of a sudden loss of a lot of good armored troops is always there. The threat makes things tense.

[mercian billman]

Im really surprised to see Steppe Cavalry in third place, I can see placing AMC ahead of them (despite their rarity) but Mounted Sergeants is just confusing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ROCKHAMMER]

Alan Merc's are the best. They are sometimes hard to find but they are worth it if you do. I have found that they have better staying power and last longer than the other Light Cav's. All in all - more bang for the buck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[WorkNeglecter]

Quote[/b] (dessa14 @ June 26 2004,04:39)]Choose
I vote Steppes. Cheap to build, limited build req's, and buildable by any faction in many provinces. Faster than MS.