My first MTW campaign

[HicRic]

I'm playing MTW:VI. I picked up the Battle Collection a few days ago. Apart from some technical difficulties that hopefully the kind apothecaries can help me with, things are great I love the game. Great fun

However I could use some help. I'm a bit confused. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

I'm playing Early as English right now. Not doing too bad so far, I think. I'm at war with Spain right now, and here comes the source of my confusion. They attacked my boats (and lost, ha) and that is what started the war. Next turn they invaded by land (I had one of the southern France provinces, Aquatine, I think) and I replused them fairly easily. I attacked by boat and seized one of their built up provinces, and then defended against two attempts to retake it. I made the province mine.

From all these actions, the Pope said nothing. But then I attacked one of their other provinces five years later, after constantly being turned down for cease-fires, and took it, and the Pope warned me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif Spain have attacked me far more and started the war, and I get the warning? Blah.
How do I go about taking over Spain without getting excommunicated? Or at least make peace so I can get my trade with them going again (which was nice and lucrative).

My other irritation: I was fighting a defensive battle with my best general. This guy has loads of all the stats. He was great Then I ran Spain from the field of battle, only to find reinforcements come pouring on. They routed me, and I lost many of my soldiers, but I eventually rallied and won. However, at one point my general was fighting 200 men on his own http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif He did well but eventually routed. He ran most of the length of the map, and then rallied. Now, after battle, he got Good Runner AND Doubtful Courage. ARGH Surely he should get a couragous virtue for fighting so many people on his own for so long? And he didn't even leave the field?

Well, now I'm told he had -6 morale. Now, I need to know: Is this just his unit, or the whole army? Please don't say the whole army. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif He's really good, but he won't be if he gives all units -6 morale.

Has my many victories and countless brave fights by that man all come to an end just because he ran away once? Isn't that a bit unfair? I mean, if this guy was leading my army, and I knew all the cool things he'd done, but he'd run off once when facing 200 men alone, I wouldn't have doubts about him. I'd think he was a clever guy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif Is there any way I can remove this vice and make his men believe in him once more?


Ooh, a long post by me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[YAKOBU]

Hi HicRic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

WARNING - you will get this I believe if you have 2 times more provinces than your enemy. If you attack someone with over half the number of provinces you have you will not get warned. For example when you attack France at the beginning.

I think if you have all your troops out of the enemy provinces you should get a ceasefire quite easily either by request or by marriage, depending on the difficulty you are playing on.

I can't give a definate answer for your Good Runner I'm afraid.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Ar7]

First thing about the pope, IIRC he warns and excommunicates the faction that has more provinces and in this case you. We all know the pope is crazy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif you just have to learn to live with him......or play muslims......or orthodox http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

About the cease fire, you can have an automatic cease fire, if none of your provinces border the enemy faction's province and if you both don't have ships in the same sea region. If both of these things are meant, then the war is instantly over.

Now for the sad news, these vices won't go away and the moral penalty applies for the whole army he is commanding.

Hope it helped http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

EDIT: Damn you people are fast, when i wrote it there were no answers....maybe i am a slow wroter http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[HicRic]

Okay, thank you. I guess that general's commanding days are over. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif I'll just have to move on As for the automatic ceasefire, well that ain't gonna happen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif I kind of took the southern half of Spain. I have three shared borders with them and ships all around them, so there's no chance of me wanting to pull out. I guess I'll just stop attacking them and just ask for ceasefires or propose some marriages for now-I don't want to be excommed and face Crusades. And trading with Spain is much more profitable than poking them with sharp things. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif I'm only playing on normal, as it's my first game (although I have played Shogun a lot).

MTW is great Now if only my computer would stop shutting off. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif

[Blodrast]

you can still use your guy, if he had high valour or whatever. just don't use him in the position of general.

Yakobu is right: if _you_ attack another catholic with less than half your number of provinces, you get the warning.
There are several ways to deal with this, as many many people have pointed out so far:

1. ignore the warning. You'll get excommunicated.
a. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif the pope so what if you're excommunicated ? be a big bad http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif and kill everybody else.
b. kill the pope.
b1. assassinate his ass
b2. burn him at stake http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
b3. (highly unlikely, and difficult) cause rebellions in his provinces that might get him killed, if he chooses to battle with them
c. kill your king. (see b) OR, an extra way is of course to send him in battle against impossible odds. Who knows, you may actually win

2. the pope only keeps track of one warning at a time. This means that if you attack the French, for instance, and you get warned, then for the next 10 years you can clobber the Spanish all you like, since you won't get warned or anything. The pope only "remembers" that you were warned against the French. So the idea is to attack another faction, get the warning, and then attack your real target.
Rinse and repeat.

3. kill the bastards within 2 years. It might even be doable with Spain, if they only have 3-4 provinces. If you finished them in 2 years, there's no more Spain, and hence no more exeommunications for you the good Catholic.

3.5. Another way of actually avoiding excommunication is to make sure you kill their king and ALL HEIRS in 3 (yes, three) years. Then you won't get excommunicated, because they won't represent a faction anymore (a civil war will ensue).

4. the straightforward way: clobber them all you want for 2 years. then get some rest and do something else for the next 10 years, until the warning expires. Then go at them again.


as far as your general is concerned, like I said, if he remains the general of an army, the -6 morale penalty applies to the entire army.

[HicRic]

Cheers, Blodrast http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You know, I'm really liking the sound of the "stuff it, get excommed and kill everything" option. I'm playing English and I just reached High period, and I've churned out loads of Longbowmen. We'll see who is still alive once these guys have run out of ammo. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Medieval Assassin]

As soon as your general routs for 10 SECONDS. He aquires the Good Runner vice, even if he rallied, as long as he routed for 10 seconds or more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[HicRic]

Ouch, that's nasty I hate the way mine picked up Good Runner and Doubtful Courage from just one battle, though. Seemed a bit unfair. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
But anyway, I'm okay. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Ar7]

That is why the general should always be a unit of knights, they flank, attack the rear, chase down routers, and never fight like real men, face to face http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-argue.gif

You should look for the page that has all the heroes and their years of birth listed. So when the year comes to train that genius of war you don't train spears or peasants. I learned it the hard way http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[HicRic]

Yeah, this guy I was talking about was an English hero (FitzGibert or something, I think) and he came ou tin a unit of bad spearmen. Not so good. =/ I didn't want to commit him to battle but in the end I had no choice (and it still didn't help. I screwed up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif )

[Doug-Thompson]

Ahhh, the joys of playing as a Catholic country.

You've been "poped," my friend. Write the date of the warning down and build up. Then wipe the Spanish out when the danger's over.

[Magraev]

Actually as the english you have another excellent option: Sir Guy of Gisbourne

He's a hero assasin that start with 4 or 5 stars - use him to kill the pope.

[HicRic]

I've consequently continued on with my game. I decided that since my warning against the Spanish had finished, I'd seize another of their provinces. Well, two, actually. I took them down, picked up my warning, and then laughed as civil war took away two more of their provinces from them. The Spainish led one final charge against me; I killed both heirs but the king got away. Just as I was getting annoyed at this missed oppotunity, after the battle:

"The King of Spain has died from an illness".

Ha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The Aragonese in their single province (Aragon) had the nerve to attack me. I struck back and squished their (nearly 100%) royal knight army with longbows and spears. Two factions down in two years can't be bad going. Going to mop up some rebels and then decide what's best next. I may expand along the bottom of the map, or just go for excomm and advance further east into (modern day) France, taking on the HRE. If I do decide to just get excommed and just go for it anyway, there are rather a lot of ships hanging around that I think I'll have to deal with. Fortunately I believe I have a sufficient navy for this purpose.

The Sicilians almost took the Pope out of the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif Shame they failed when he had just one province left, he's now expanded out again.

And the Golden Horde Ack I wasn't expecting to see the good old Mongols make a return from STW:MI. Luckily for me, they're all the way over the other side of the map, so I'm safe-for now. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I think I'm playing much too slowly. The year is now 1250 and I only control the British Isles, Spain, and western France. (I started in Early).

I'll look out for Sir Guy, too. Sounds like a useful chap. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Ulair]

Sounds like you're doing fine for your first campaign if you've taken Britain, French France and Spain. It is possible to blast the French off the map before 1100 (9 years from a standing start is my record, with no excomm http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif - possible because Eng and Fra are similar sizes to start with and you don't get warned until the French are nearly gone, by which time you can finish 'em within two years). Check the patented katank English blitz in the guides.

Oh, yes, sooner or later the Aragonese always attack Toulouse. It's in their blood http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Things to do now, if you've not already:
1) build ships;
2) build ships;
3) build ships;
4) take Scandinavia, esp. Sweden (= muchos florins);
5) build ships;
6) beat the Almohads/Egyptians out of North Africa all the way to Sinai;
7) build ships;
8) build s... you get the idea http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Owning the sea is key, esp. as the English.

Taking on the HRE is (IMHO) only to be done if (a) they attack you or (b) you reckon you've got the materiel to roll across Europe, getting excomm'ed and not caring, next stop Constantinople via everywhere

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (HicRic @ June 29 2004,10:37)]I think I'm playing much too slowly. The year is now 1250 and I only control the British Isles, Spain, and western France. (I started in Early).
Not at all. You're doing very well.

I'd recommend building up your navy, particularly in the English Channel and North Sea. That will prevent any landings on your very long coastline from Europe.

Also, put some ships in the Gulf of Valencia and elsewhere or one of the Mediterranean countries will land armies in Spain.

I'd build up a trade network and Crusade your way through North Africa all the way to Egypt. You can expand there indefinitely against Muslim factions without any excommunication risk, and the Almohads can't be very strong if you have all of Spain. The Egyptians have the Golden Horde on one side and you on the other, which can't be good for them. Also, if you have control of the sea you can shift troops around effortlessly between Africa and Europe.

Also, are Norway and Sweden available? Sweden in particular is a sweet iron and trade province.

[Blodrast]

Hey HicRic,

you're doing pretty good there ;)
I would definitely agree with Ulair: don't go into HRE provinces yet. There are several reasons why this is not a great idea:

- first and foremost, you will end up with a huge number of border provinces, which means lots of garrison troops, neighboring with all of the european factions, which will mean a constant war against all, which will slowly drain your resources and hold you back. It may also be too early in the game for you to wage a full-scale world war right now, and I'm not sure you have the resources yet.
- most of those provinces suck. big time. Why would you want them ? For 2 iron provinces ? You already have 4 , and far better for that Switzerland for SAP/swiss halbs ? Heck, it will take you AGES till you get them, and by that time you'll most likely have finished the game or be close enough not to need them anymore.
- you'll most likely be unable to attack any catholics, because you'll have too many provinces, so you'll constantly be excommed. This is usually not a big deal, as I've said before, BUT remember there is one problem that you'll most likely be faced with: a province's loyalty is, among other things, heavily influenced by the distance between your king and that province. That is counted as the number of "steps" it would take your king to get to that province from his current location. Since most of the provinces on the map also have ports, once you have a decent navy this is usually not a problem, since you can get anywhere instantly. However, this is not the case for the central europe provinces. The distance will be increased by at least 2, sometimes 3. Add to that the fact that you'll be excommed all the time, and I'll bet you will find yourself on the brink of a civil war most of the time, having to put out rebellions and what not.

Consider the alternative:
- crush the Elmoheads, and then the Egyptians
both have rich lands, they are all ports, good provinces (some of them bound to be fairly well developed), you can crusade all you want to, and this will keep you in the Pope's favor too

So leave the poor HRE alone, they'll most likely never be a threat to you. They're usually too big to attack anyone w/out being excommed, and too many scavengers pick on them all the time to let them expand. You should be glad you have a buffer to attract the other pirates ;)

Hope this helps

Ulair is right, again: it's only worth taking Central Europe over only when you decide to roll over Europe and finish the game...

[HicRic]

Okay, thanks for the help. My urges to wipe out the HRE hail from my Shogun days (look, someone that isn't me *kills* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). Fortunately I have an okay navy; I've got ships all around Scandinavia down into the Meditteranian. (Only one ship in most sea regions, though). I've got a couple of Caravels in the deep sea regions, too.

Thanks for the reassurance about my speed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif I thought I might be going a bit too slow, but I guess not I'll take out the North Africa parts, then. I like the sound of some rich provinces. Flanders is making me a ton of money on it's own, thanks to trade.

I think I'm making profits of about 3K florins per turn, overall, which I'm very happy with.

Alas, Norway and Sweden have been claimed by the Polish. I'll be sure to keep a look out for opportunities, however. Are they worth having enough for me to send over some spies and see if I can start a rebellion?

[Blodrast]

Quote[/b] (HicRic @ June 29 2004,15:26)]Thanks for the reassurance about my speed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif I thought I might be going a bit too slow, but I guess not

the only "good" speed is the speed that you're most comfortable with, and that gives you the most out of the game. If you like to tech up and wait, do that; if you wanna blitz, do that. There is no "right" and "wrong" way of playing the game, only more enjoyable and less enjoyable ways, and they are all up to the player.


Quote[/b] (HicRic @ June 29 2004,15:26)]
Alas, Norway and Sweden have been claimed by the Polish. I'll be sure to keep a look out for opportunities, however. Are they worth having enough for me to send over some spies and see if I can start a rebellion?


re spies: Not likely. In VI spies have been badly nerfed, so it is _really_ difficult to spur a rebellion anymore; practically, it never happens. You may have a chance if you get a hero spy, with 5 stars or so, otherwise you can forget about that.

[Ar7]

Think of Sweden as of a second Flanders, it also has 3 resources for trade and will make you a ton of money alone....you can also sack Norway, just for the looks of it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lord Godfrey]

Tip of the Day: After all of your moves and right before you hit the end turn button, use the shift key to identify any "yellow" or "red" provinces that may have had loyalty shifts during the turn. It will prevent the unwanted rebellion that can be so frustrating in the middle of a campaign.

Good luck and have fun conquering the Western world.