Spearmen

[Papewaio]

Just fought a nice battle.

Outnumbered 2:1 including a Jihad ally which was on the way through.

I had turks (early) 2 desert archers (120 each), 2 spears (200 each), 2 star ghulam (+2 morale virtue).

I got wiped out as this was a sneak attack by a Crusade against one of my minor borders. The Italians attacked in force Trebizond... and I was not expecting that...

However my forces did make a good accounting for themselves and one of my spear units killed 174 guys lost the lot... they did kill about 70 order foot and 70 order cav though so I was pretty proud... and when I tried to withdraw them they got flanked, turned around and fought to the death.

[Sarnaen]

Personally, I find spearmen (The class, not the basic unit) to be the best infantry available to any faction. They handle themselves well against most foes, and excel against cavalry.

My standard jack-of-all-trades armies usually consist of 4 of the best spears available, 2 of the best missile units available, 2 sword, 2 cavalry.

In Turkish armies, this will usually be Saracen infantry spearmen, Janissary infantry, Ghazi infantry (not strictly sword, but they fill a similar role), and Armenian cavalry.

In Russian armies, I use 4 Armoured spearmen, 2 Bulgarian Brigands, 2 Feudal Men-at-Arms, 2 Boyars.

I usually send these armies to hold a freshly conquered province, or several to take most provinces. Special conditions and enemy army composition skew my composition to deal with this.

[bighairyman]

Quote[/b] ]In Russian armies, I use 4 Armoured spearmen, 2 Bulgarian Brigands, 2 Feudal Men-at-Arms, 2 Boyars.

You don't use Russian Spearmen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif , they're better.

[Sarnaen]

For some reason, Armoured Spearmen work better for me. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[amir]

I just use SAP and Swiss pikeman, no matter what faction http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Inuyasha12]

Not every faction has access to SAP and swiss pikemen, well unless you modded it.
Only italy, france, or germany could have them early in the game.

[amir]

not in 1.0, i had SAPs with almohads and Byz too

[Inuyasha12]

What, that makes no sense.
SAP like swiss armoured pikemen, like the unit that can only be build in switzerland.

Are we talking about the same unit here amir?

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Inuyasha12 @ June 27 2004,11:10)]What, that makes no sense.
SAP like swiss armoured pikemen, like the unit that can only be build in switzerland.

Are we talking about the same unit here amir?
No in original MTW (without VI and without any patch) you could build SAPs in many factions.

Also Longbows and other later period weapons were buildable in Early.

The Devs changed all that for the sake of balance and stuff.

[mikebailey2000]

Sarnaen,
How did Russia get sword units (Feudal Men)? My Russia does not have them. And what is a Russian spearman? I haven't seen one yet. Are you playing mods?

[Sarnaen]

Mercenaries, simply enough. I build a few Inns, and snap up every sword unit I can get my hands on. Later in the game, when I have a decent naval network, I try to get hold of Ireland or Scotland for their unique sword units - Gallowglasses and Highland Clansmen respectively.

Although not the most reliable way to get swords, anything is better than nothing when dealing with Russians and sword infantry.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yeah, about the spearmen:

These Italian Light Infantry can tear down the sky
-modified quote of Julius Ceasar (I think)

When playing as the Italians, these are seriously the best unit in the game (In my opinion). They can do anything. Fly, maybe even.

Even if spearmen seem really humble, especially if you're new to the game, eventually, you will realize you and your army are nothing without that sea of spears.

[Sarnaen]

The Italian Light Infantry are awesome, it is an indisputable fact.
When used as a team with arbalesters and Feudal Men-at-Arms, and supported with mounted sergeantd, they are nigh unstoppable. There are few units in the game that perform as well for the points you pay, bar maybe Billmen and Saracen Infantry.

[pdoan8]

Quote[/b] (mikebailey2000 @ June 28 2004,18:24)]Sarnaen,
How did Russia get sword units (Feudal Men)? My Russia does not have them. And what is a Russian spearman? I haven't seen one yet. Are you playing mods?
Russian Spearmen is one of many units available in VI expansion pack. Available in Early only. So if you play as Russian, which is only playable in High and Late (IIRC), you can't get Rus Spearmen. To be able to play as Novgorod (Russian in Early), I think you have to do a little modding

FMAA should be available as merc. In castle defense, Boyar will dismount into FMAA.

Edit: in High period, Russian can get a sword unit better than F/CMAA: Dismounted Druzhina Cav which is 60 Feudal Foot Knight. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif They won't be around in Late, so better get them fast.

[CrusaderMan]

Before the first patch came out, when playing the byzantines I used masses of spearmen and UM only. They were unbeatable.

[HARALD THE RUTHELESS!]

Quote[/b] (Sarnaen @ June 29 2004,03:18)]The Italian Light Infantry are awesome, it is an indisputable fact.
When used as a team with arbalesters and Feudal Men-at-Arms, and supported with mounted sergeantd, they are nigh unstoppable. There are few units in the game that perform as well for the points you pay, bar maybe Billmen and Saracen Infantry.
What exactly is so awesome about the Italians? They seem like a litle better than the chivalric sergeants. I haven't tested this but I believe most high/late heavy infantry will tear them apart.

[Papewaio]

It is not that they get wiped by high infantry. It is the time taken to do so.

While you are chewing up the spears, other units can outflank/hit from the rear. And apart from infantry spears will beat other units used by the AI.

Cavalry... no brainer.
Archers... they don't shoot so well when they are skirmishing away from the spears.
Spears... not a smart move, a bit like playing stone vs stone.
Swords... can chew them up, but typically it is a lengthy time chewing on a low value unit.

Back up spears with a decent missile unit... Longbows, Javelins or Crossbows and all that time spent chewing starts to become expensive.

My spear units are used to counter cav and to guard the missile units. They are mobile walls that are not their to win. They are part of my weapon system, while the spears tie down other units, my archers go to work and my cavalry sweep around the back. Any sword units can pick and choose where to attack once the spear units have the majority of hand to hand engaged.

[YAKOBU]

Hi Harald http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

In Early I find Italian Infantry are great. The only other spearmen equivalent or better are Gothic Seargeants and Order Foot. Gothis Seargeants are not available until Late and Order Foot although available through crusades cannot be upgraded with armour/weapons.

As sarnean says they should be supported in later periods with good swordsmen. At this point they should have full armour/weapon upgrades and earned a little valour. It is unfair to compare them with high/late heavy infantry as they are primarily spearmen.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[mfberg]

They are so awesome because they ARE a lot better than chiv sergeants and saracen infantry. The difference in attack and more importantly morale makes those italian light infantry hold longer and better than any other spear except gothic sergeants and maybe pikemen. They are also available in early, while their replacements don't come on until late.

mfberg

[Inuyasha12]

Yes but the fact that they are just that 'spearmen' also means that they cant do everything. If you give them all of the battlefield roles you'll have a weajer battle line. If you bolster them with some sword or cavalry units however, then they really are invincible.
They are great but still only serve as spearmen should serve, to slaughter horses.
And they do that very well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Inuyasha12]

Yes but the fact that they are just that 'spearmen' also means that they cant do everything. If you give them all of the battlefield roles you'll have a weaker battle line. If you bolster them with some sword or cavalry units however, then they really are invincible.
They are great but still only serve as spearmen should serve, to slaughter horses.
And they do that very well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif