War of attrition in STW

[webwing]

I'm near the end of a campaign in STW and there are no other clans left but rebels and ronins. Its kind of disappointing but I want to get to the end of it.
Now I'm facing some really big armies, 3000 men or more, in some provinces.
I read in frogbeastegg's guide for MTW that you can fight and withdraw from a battle without any penalty in that game. Is there a way to do the same in STW? As far as I could find if you lose a battle you lose honor no matter if you withdrew or really lost. That is bad since you'll be forced to retire that general after some withdraws...

thanks in advance for the answer

[]'s

[KukriKhan]

You know, webwing I don't think STW had the withdraw option, so my first answer is No...but...I could be wrong, so I'll check it out & get back to you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If you fight the battle and then withdraw it will count as a defeat.

[HicRic]

Get the best 16 units you can lay your hands on, turn off the time limit (so you don't lose through waiting for their waves of reinforcements) and charge http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

...or use the probably vast resources at your disposal and bribe them. The slightly easier-but-boringer option. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
(Oh, and there is a withdraw option, but like Sasaki Kojiro said, it'll count as a loss).

[barocca]

and never ever count on your own reinforcements ever showing up,
sometimes they do and sometimes they dont,

the ai is not dumb when it comes to numbers and quality,
if the ai has better quality it will often attck, even if it is the defender,
if the ai has more numbers it will almost always attack,

if the ai fails to attack you can tease it into doing so with a cav archer

cav archers are good for getting the ai to take the exact path to your forces that you want,

a suitable army for high defence will have 1, maybe 2 naginata, 4 to 6 archers, 1 or 2 cav archer,
with no-dachi and yari sam in equal numbers. (4 of each is good, no dachi are better fighters but less armour)
if you have 2 cav archers then only 4 (max) archers

to get your intial army to almost always be the one you want stack them with the general and make that the first stack you move into the province (works 80% of the time)

now have a look around your beam in zone and pick the most defensible position you can find,

fist rank
naginata, screening the archers and soaking up arrows
(2 men deep and wide frontage is good)
second rank
archers 2 to 3 units deep and 2 to 3 units wide,
2 deep is good, 3 deep is tricky to manage,
third rank
yari sams
fourth rank
no-dachi
detatched from main force
cav archer

while your men march to the chosen defence point move the cav archers up,
you want to tease the ai to come to you exactly the way you want,
march cav archer near to the enemy, just out of arrow range,
then dash them in and fire a salvo or two,
run them back out of range and walk them so they draw the enemy after them,
repeat until you are getting near your lines, then bolt the cav archer(CA) around the back of your army and use them as a covering force, dont let them shoot up anything unless the situation is bad,

mind your archers, you have a limited supply of arrows, so try to let them shoot only when a high value enemy unit is nearby, or ashigaru - ashi are very vulnerable to archers,
same with monks - very vulnerable
as the enemy engages the naginata screen send appropriate units to support the naginata, turn off archers as your troops move through their lines, you dont want own goals
use your outermost na-dachi to run around the back of the enemy and hit the highest value units from behind,
now use your archers to shoot up any enemy archers.

when the enemy break let your no-dachi chase them a little and use your cav archers to chase them a lot,
REFORM YOUR LINES
try to chase as many of the enemy units off the field with your cav archers as you can

with luck you can herd them into some of the incoming enemy reinforcement units, who may break just from so many routers,
but the enemy will also often appear at different points,
so watch your back,
now use your cav archers the same as you did for the first wave,

by only letting cav archers fire a few volleys on each wave they can tease all subsequnet waves into the same trap as the first.

CONSERVE ARROWS when you can.
If you notice the mellee is going well and are confident the enemy will break stop the archer firing.
perhaps stop only one rank of them if you are uncertain.

Once your archer run out of arrows withdraw ONE UNIT ONLY,
if you get a fresh unit coming on then you are in luck and your reinforcements were not distracted by enemy geisha on their way to the field.
withdraw archer units one at a time, just to be safe,
wait till their replacement starts marching in before you withdraw another.

GOOD LUCK
B.

[webwing]

Well, thanks for your answers
At least by what barocca said its not easy task for anyone. For me the effort is huge and the results usually pathetic.
HicRic said to turn off the time lime...
Can I turn off the time limit in the campaign? I know I can do that in the custom battles but I cant find a way to do that in the campaign mode.
If I could do that I think barroca's strategy would be prefect but with the time limit...

[]'s

PS> Is there a way to edit my post after I posted it?

[KukriKhan]

No yet, webwing, but soon, when we bump you to Senior Patron.

[webwing]

KukriKhan,

Oh, ok. Nevermind. Thanks for the answer.
Its just that just after I post I feel like changing something... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[]'s

[webwing]

barocca,

I printed out your advice so that i could refer to it as I was playing the game.
I tried to form an army following what you wrote and then again following your instructions during battle.
At a certain point I just gave up and couldn't stop laughing at my hopelessness, while the AI slaughtered my men. It's overwhelming It will take some time and practice to master this. At least I have your guidelines to help so I know where I need to go.
It makes a great difference moving from NORMAL to EXPERT in the campaign. Specially in the battles.
The major problem seems to be going to cavalry archers and then back to rest of the army and then back to archers and so forth.

[]'s

[PaolinoPaperino]

If they are so tough, you could enjoy for them a slow but sure end:
- Use the Geisha to kill the high ranking generals;
- Use the emisary to bribe the enemy army.

In that way in few turns even great bulks of enemy will be reduced to a easy task http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[barocca]

i usually leave the cav archers on skirmish and let them shoot at whatever they want,

remember not to let the naginata get over whelmed,
you want your yari sam to arrive as the enemy hit them,
and you want your no-dachi flankers to swing in behind a few seconds later,
and if the enemy archers are a pain you can try sending the cav archer around the flank to mix it up with the enemy archers at the same time hand to hand
- when your cav arch engage the enemy archers make sure to turn your own archers off, or put them on fire at will, but your own archers will still cause casualties to your units, just not so many as targetted fire.

if you put the foot archers in a group you only have to hold control and click one of them to select the whole group.

perhaps you could upload the save game just before you send your men into the province and put a note in it telling us which province to attack :-)
B.

[PaolinoPaperino]

Just few other tips... Just to make u more confused http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

- when u shoot with archers put them in 2 rows(if you have too many, use them in 3);
- when you withdraw an arrow unit, redeploy it before in 4 rows (or more), then CTRL+W;
- when you engage with archers and YS use them in F(only exceptions is when ys plays against mounted troops).

[webwing]

I'm facing the hojo horde at this point in my game now.

Since a lot of people said they thought facing them would be a nice challenge I could, following barroca's suggestion, upload the saved game. I just don't know where to upload it to. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

Anyone interested?http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


[]'s

[Maeda Toshiie]

I read in frogbeastegg's guide for MTW that you can fight and withdraw from a battle without any penalty in that game. Is there a way to do the same in STW? As far as I could find if you lose a battle you lose honor no matter if you withdrew or really lost. That is bad since you'll be forced to retire that general after some withdraws...

At the strat screen, you are given 3 choices, 4 if you are defending and have a castle in the province. You can withdraw out of the province or cancel an attack without any penalties. (in MTW you would slowly gain vices for that.)

At the battlefield screen if you withdrawn even if no troops are deployed, it is still counted as a loss (no troops deployed).

To deal with hordes:
1. Switch on the timer if you are the defender. In STW the time is fixed and not scalable as in MTW. If attacker, switch off.

2. Use a LOT of muskets, ie 6 - 8. And pray hard that it doesnt rain. This only works for WE/MI (if its a bridge battle, 100++ to 1 kill ratios is very common)

3. Camp on the high ground, preferrably near the edge of your side of the map.

4. Aim at the enemy general. Kill him. (esp if he has a high rank)

5. Dont count on reinforcements, all the more if you are playing WE/MI

[barocca]

for those who need to know,

i understand with the current site revisions these can be a little hard to locate
- (this will be improved when i finish revising the site)

ALL Upload Tools (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Upload_Index.shtml)

Shogun Recorded Battles Upload Tool - also good for Save Game Challenges (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/uploadrecord.php3)

Shogun - Browse the loca recorded battles Directory - most files are moved over to 3D Downloads after a few days (http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Stw_Uploads/STWrecords/)

Shogun recorded battles at 3D (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar/Recorded_Battles/STWrecords/)

the org's downloads at 3D (http://www.3ddownloads.com/strategy-gaming/totalwar)

more download servers are available here
a listing of the org's servers (http://www.totalwar.org/links/dls.shtml)
the alternative servers hold most of our downloads collection, 3D has a complete set.

B.

[HicRic]

There is an option in the main game menu (under performance, I think) that says Campaign battle time limit and has a tick box. Untick it to remove the limit.

[webwing]

Quote[/b] (HicRic @ July 04 2004,11:11)]There is an option in the main game menu (under performance, I think) that says Campaign battle time limit and has a tick box. Untick it to remove the limit.
Well, thanks again for the answers.
Although it seems exciting to some to face the Hojo Horde it is actually dull. It means that even if you have the skill to beat it that you will be fighting the same battles in the same province over and over until the AI armies are depleted.
As you can guess from the pictures in my other post Hojo has some 30000 plus troops in only that province. You would have to fight 20 plus battles in the same province if you win all of them.
Im now playing the other clans and then the game is more balanced...


HicRic,

There is no such option, at least in the version o STW that I'm using. There is this option when you play custom battles though.

[]'s

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I always used to surround the horde in one province...1 battle and they are all dead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Spartiate]

I like to wait for them in Khazar and wipe out that army and they will never amount to much of a problem again.If i'm not strong enough i like to wait in an adjacent province with a river crossing and force them to come to me.I've been attacked many times by the horde with 5000 plus men and defended with maybe 2000 and won every time when at a river.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hehe Spartiate, this is the Hojo horde, not the Mongol horde http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Spartiate]

Damn and blast.Is there much egg on my face or just a little bit.Thats what happens when newbies like me get ahead of ourselves.Sorry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[HicRic]

Apologies, webwing I was wrong. I've just checked it.

Run game --> options --> game

When you click on 'game', one of the options is the tick box I mentioned. I do have Warlord Edition, however-maybe it isn't there on earlier versions.

[webwing]

In the version I have there is no option but Im planing to get the Warlord Editon and after that MTW to keep me buzy while I wait for RTW. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[]'s