strange results in opposing test with heavy cavalry !

[Roumata]

Well i just had time to lose and decided to make some test with a cavalry unit !
flat battle field, and honor at 2 for all unit !
I decided to test heavy cavalry against infantry unit in a face to face engagement !

I was surprised by the results, very surprised !

First, i thought that my heavy cavalry will have no trouble against ashigaru, no dachi and maybe monks but will get a hard work against samourai and mostly naginata.
I was wrong, they crushed ashigaru, no dachi, AND naginata (WTF ???) and got troubles against samourai and monks (defeat at 90%)

The other big surprise came when i made my tests in expert mode !
In expert mode my heavy cavalery is crushed even by ashigaru ! lol, i made 10 fights and didn't go ahead with other infantery unit in expert mode as i thought totally stupid that in normal mode i crushed ashigaru and in expert mode i was crushed by ashigaru !

I really thought that the level of difficulty controlled the way your opposing general react against you, and the way the IA control its units but i didnt supposed at all that the level of difficulty would make ashigaru stronger than heavy cavalery ! lol

Roumata d'Elthor

"Follow the path of the Sword and victory will be yours"

[This message has been edited by Roumata (edited 06-23-2002).]

[Mithrandir]

If you'd like, can you test YC vs HC for me?

YC SHOULD beat HC according to the description..

[Puzz3D]

At hard and expert difficulty, the ai units get a combat boost, but are not more intelligent. The ai does evaluate the relative strength of its unit(s) compared to yours, and makes tactical decisions using that info. So, the ai might react to the same situation differently at different difficulty settings.
MizuYuuki ~~~

In Mongol Invasion 1.02 and 1.03 cavalry are like this:

YC beats NC
HC beats YC
HC beats NC

But it is worth noting that even if YC kills NC; NC kills much better nodachis/monks and it kills very fast.

HC kills everything but YS/YA; but costs much more than the other cavalry.

------------------
Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Mithrandir]

Another weird thing about the unit descriptions...

NC was supposed to be the further refinement of HC, then why does it suck compared to the HC ? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Because HC cost 150 more than NC Mith.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Roumata]

well well, more and more strange, i made the test asked by mithrandir, testing yari cavalry against heavy cavalry ! 475 koku the first, 600 the second, just for those who don't know http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

So, in our first test we found that heavy cavalry is just good against archer and no dachi and naginata lol, but that every other infantry unit crush them even ashigaru !!!!

I made now the test against yari cavalry !
Flatdemo field ! one unit of heavy cavalry against one unit of yari cavalry, 2 point of honor each, and i played 5 times the heavy cavalry and 5 times the yari one !
However the fights are pretty simple, it s a face to face, no movement or flank attack etc...a pure fight to see who is the best !

Again i got a surprise, as the yari cavaly beat the heavy cavalry during the 5 battles in which i played the heavy ones, and during the 5 battles in which i played the yari one !

To conclude, i just wonder what heavy cavalry is for lol, as yari are faster and should be as good as them to crush archers !

From those test, heavy cavalry is not worth its cost nor the time you need to be able to build them !!

Strange, isn't it ?

Any opinion or conter-test ?

Roumata d'Elthor

"Follow the path of the sword and victory will be yours"

[This message has been edited by Roumata (edited 06-24-2002).]

On STW that happened.
On MI/WE 1.02 that doesn't. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I posted some notes on HC and their use some months ago, I think they're gone now though.
Not in the mood to rewrite them.



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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[EuroSan]

I advice you to do those test online with another player... and make sure both units charge when clash......nothing beats HC but YS.

And i sweaped the land of japan with all HC armys in SP AI has no chance.(on expert)



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May the honour be with you all..........EuroSan the reborned spirit of LinkSan

[Kraellin]

tera is right. hc in original game sucked. in we/mi 1.02 we beefed them up considerably to make them truly HEAVY cav. i would have preferred them to be a bit more offensive than defensive, but the stats put them as primarily a defensive unit, iirc. on offense they can still chew up just about anything one on one, but their main strength is being able to take punishment. and yari cav in 1.02 are the cav killers. nag cav are for inf and missile units that arent spears.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Mithrandir]

I think the HC routs way less soon ?

[Puzz3D]

Mithrandir,
As I recall, JHC had their morale raised from 4 to 6 in v1.02 along with more combat power so that they could be a counterunit to monks, but they should still loose in frontal assault on low cost yari samurai.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[MizuKokami]

i don't use heavy cav often, but when i've seen them walk all over me, it's usually when the heavy cav is sent in after most of my units are otherwise engaged.