IGN - New Faction description

[PSYCHO]

Click Here (http://pc.ign.com/articles/527/527507p1.html)

[Spino]

Psycho you bastard You beat my post by 10 minutes Oh, well i'll ask the admins to delete mine and i'll post the info I pasted into my thread into yours. Pity, my subject heading was so catchy...

Here's a snippet... the unit list:

Peasants:
Peasants are reluctant warriors, but barbarian peasants are better fighters than most: hard lives produce hard men. Numbers are useful in all armies, and forcing peasants to fight is one way of getting lots of men in the field quickly and cheaply. They have little tactical sense, and even less willingness to fight - they would rather be defending their own homes than be dragged to a battle they neither care about nor understand. They are, however, experts at reading the land and hiding when there is cover.

Slingers:
A sling is a deceptively simple weapon: a slinger can bring down the strongest man with a single shot. These slingers can send a hail of bullets towards the enemy, and target their shots for maximum damage. After all, they will have been hunting with slings since boyhood. Slingers should not be allowed to get into melee combat, as their lack of armour and their relative lack of equipment - just a knife or short sword and a shield - will soon lead to them being cut to pieces. Used to kill enemies from a distance, they are superb missile warriors.

Head Hurlers:
In battle, head hurlers throw the heads of fallen foes coated with quicklime. These missiles are both dangerous and loathsome. Head hurlers combine the practical and the macabre in equal measure - they collect the heads of fallen enemies and preserve these by dipping them in quicklime. The limed heads are used as disgusting missiles in battle, flung into enemy ranks at surprisingly long range. As missiles the heads are heavy enough to cause injuries (and have an undoubted impact on morale) but it is the lime that really does the damage, causing nasty burns. Head Hurlers also carry swords for use in close combat should this be necessary. Head hurlers, however, also show little regard for their own danger and are not above rushing into combat without orders.

Warband:
Warbands are bound to the service of a strongman or petty village head. They are the basic 'unit' to be found in many barbarian armies. They fight well, as glory and loot are the road to status, but are often difficult to control. They care little for discipline and less for restraint, but they can be relied on to fight, and fight hard. In warfare it is up to each man to prove his own bravery and worth, so the savage charge into the enemy is about as sophisticated as they ever want to be Each man carries a stabbing spear and a large shield.

Swordsmen:
Swordsmen are steadfast and aggressive warriors, the 'infantry of the line' for barbarian warlords. They are not very disciplined at times, as their sense of honour and bravery can make them eager to get into any fray, but they are uniformly superb swordsmen. They are equipped with good swords and large shields. Every warlord worth the name makes sure he has a couple of warbands of these hard men under his command.

Chosen Swordsmen:
Chosen swordsmen are the best fighting individuals in their tribe, and armed with the finest swords available. While superbly skilled and extremely tough, they are not naturally inclined to fight as a group. Personal glory and the need to be first amongst the enemy ensure that they are headstrong and ill-disciplined. They are, however, very well equipped with the finest swords that the smiths can make, along with chainmail armour and large shields. They are an intimidating sight for any enemy.

Woad Warriors:
Religion and magic are powerful reasons for bravery. Woad warriors are brave fighters - and mad. They disdain armour and most clothing, preferring to paint themselves with intricate and stylised magical designs in woad (a blue dye) to deflect enemy blows and missiles. The patterns created can be elaborate and almost inhuman, and are supposed to be unnerving for enemies unused to such practices. Belief in magic also armours the woad warriors against fear, and makes them savage, dangerous and not-quite-controllable fighters. Woad warriors carry only blades and shields but it is a foolish commander indeed who underestimates their impact in battle

Druids:
Druids are spiritual leaders with practical fighting skills who instill confidence in nearby friendly warriors. They have a religious zeal that gives them great courage and their mere presence fills nearby believers with confidence. Positioned just behind the battle line druids can also form a powerful reserve, ready to join the fray at a crucial moment. Equipped with sickle-shaped swords and small shields, the mail-clad druids are excellent fighters. Their good war gear is a reflection of their status as teachers, judges, soothsayers and the focal point of religion and magic among their people. As Celtic cultures lack a written form, they are also the memory of the tribe as well, remembering all the important facts of tribal history. Historically, the Romans despised and then targeted these men because they practiced particularly savage forms of human sacrifice and because of their cultural importance. When a tribe's history was wiped out, it became a little easier to bend the people to the will of Rome.

Warhounds:
Warhounds are bred for a savage nature and great size, but then hunting men is only a little more dangerous than hunting wild boar The beasts are muscular and powerful. Originally bred for hunting large prey, they are now trained to hunt and attack men. Warhounds are usually unleashed on an enemy to break a line and unnerve opponents. Few men are able to stand steadily in the face of a snarling and partially-starved beast. The dogs are trained to bite and hold on, dragging down their human targets, and hamstringing horses. Their handlers are brave, foolhardy and not easily intimidated: many have fingers, hands or even chunks of limbs missing

Light Chariots:
Light chariots are very fast, very noisy and, when used in large numbers, quite intimidating. They combine the swiftness of cavalry with the 'staying power' of infantry. The drivers concentrate on controlling the chariots, while their passengers fire arrow after arrow into the target. They can also simply charge into an enemy, perform the same scouting duties as cavalry, harass enemies with missiles and may even be worth sacrificing to break a previously unyielding enemy line. They can also be very effective in pursuing fleeing foes.

Heavy Chariots:
Heavy chariots are an elite in British armies ridden into battle by tribal nobles. They are shock troops, relying on speed and shock to break enemy formations. Every man carries a fine sword, and is equipped with a good mail coat and a shield, while his chariot is pulled by two horses. They perform the same function as heavy cavalry, charging home to cause casualties before wheeling away to launch a fresh attack. Any infantry foolish enough to stand in the way are ridden down, hacked to pieces by the rider However, like many barbarians they can sometimes let greed for personal honour and glory lead them into attacking without orders.

British General:
Chariots are a pinnacle of Celtic technology and an effective machine of war. So it's no surprise to see tribal leaders driving them into battle accompanied by groups of bodyguards. It is important that a warlord has a group of hardened warriors around him to go into the thick of battle to prove that he is not only a great leader but also a great warrior. Barbarian warlords hold their positions of trust and command not just through their tactical skill but because they are personally brave and resolute. No warrior willingly follows a coward, and no coward has the right to ask his brothers-in-arms to throw their lives away.

Boats:
These vessels are seaworthy, but small, craft capable of carrying a small cargo or a few men along coastal routes. Like other ships of the time these craft use sail when cruising and oar-powers when in combat. This type of boat represents the various flat-bottomed Celtic curachs, the sea-worthy Germanic narrow boats, and African byblos ships, for example. Most barbarians lack the 'civilized' ship-building skills of the Greeks, Carthaginians and Romans, but within their limitations these are sturdy craft. The almost-instinctive seamanship of their crews helps them travel surprisingly long distances without danger.

Large Boats:
Large boats are battle-worthy craft, with crews large enough to fight boarding actions when required. These boats are not a match, however, for ships of more 'civilized' peoples. These ships, however, have better sea keeping qualities than many craft developed for the relatively calm waters of the Mediterranean. They can carry large cargoes - or raiding parties - across many trackless miles of sea.

This unit list is obviously incomplete. There are no archers and yet the tech tree included an archery range. Oh well, I'm expecting a somewhat volcanic response from some of you...

[CBR]

Quote[/b] ]Oh well, I'm expecting a somewhat volcanic response from some of you...


With units like Head Hurlers I cant see why anyone would make volcanic responses..


CBR

[PSYCHO]

Well (*sigh*), the graphics are beautiful. Who ever is skinning the units (esp. the guys with the woad) is doing a mighty fine job Very well done

The downside is that we still have the Woad Warrior, the Chosen Swordsman, the Sickle - Crescent shield wielding Druid etc etc. Now “Head Hurlers”? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I wonder if that 'arcade' function will turn off / modify some of the more ‘kiddy-cool’ units? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Needless to say, I am quite disappointed that CA have missed a great opportunity to depict some of the different historical nuances of various geographical areas, tribes, fighting characteristics and weaponry etc. Be that as it may, I guess we can at least take some solace in the fact that this new range of units look more like Britons than the earlier Conan prototypes.

We have argued the point to death. If CA remain intent on this line of development, these’s little more that can be done at this juncture. I now just urge a speedy release and hope they will support a modding community.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[PSYCHO]

Sorry Spino http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[shingenmitch2]

At this point all I can manage is... WTF?

[shingenmitch2]

okay, CA can figure out how to get guys throwing heads, but doing the phalanx right... whaoh, can't spend the time there.

[Mablung]

Since when were there a people reconised as the British at that time?? Or is this a more modern army http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif . All I can really say is that this is crap The head hurlers sound like an attempt and a Naptha like unit.

[The_Emperor]

Head Hurlers?? The Celts were Head COLLECTORS, they didn't Throw them Away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Where are the Celtic Spearmen and Javelin Throwers? Those weapons were most widely used by the Celtic Britons.

[The Wizard]

Bah, I will just give no heated comment and just leave it at this:

Sigh.



~Wiz

[Ser Clegane]

Head Hurlers? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif

I think now even my comfort zone starts to get violated (and that's a rather difficult task as I even could have somehow lived with the screwed up Egyptian faction)

At least now we know why some of the guys shown on a siege-screenshot had a bunch of heads hanging from their belt - it's ammo (siege of Minas Tirith anyone?)

I'm sure not looking forward to seeing heads raining down on my flaming pigs during battle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[The_Emperor]

At this rate I bet the Barbarians will have the Meat Wagons from Warcraft 3 for use as siege weapons... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[The Wizard]

LMAO

Chosen Swordsmen... while the description is essentially correct, the name alone makes me think of a fantasy character ála paladin... complete with magical aura and healing spells.

BTW, Emp, you play WC3? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif



~Wiz

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]BTW, Emp, you play WC3? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Unfortunately I bought the game after all the hype... I wasn't very impressed. And the game was shelved, and hasn't been used since.

[econ21]

I agree about the head-hurlers, although it is ironic that they could have been included in some form in MTW. Didn't the Mongols do this during sieges? Or is that a medieval myth?

[Duke John]

Hurling heads and bodies with artillery during a siege into the castle/town is not unrealistic or ahistorical. Hurling them by hand and actually killing an armoured man is just plain silly.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]Hurling heads and bodies with artillery during a siege into the castle/town is not unrealistic or ahistorical. Hurling them by hand and actually killing an armoured man is just plain silly.


I agree entirely. I don't see how a Severed head can be of any lethality no matter what you coat it with

Restrict their use to sieges as a morale penalty inflicting unit.

[Ser Clegane]

We will have to learn to love these guys... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/527/527507/rome-total-war-20040630041745622-000.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen_e3/589390_20040504_screen004.jpg

[CBR]

I wonder if the Head Hurlers can pick up "ammo" on the battlefield? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


CBR

[Ragss]

I dont mind the head hurlers, just so long as the heads dont do any damage, other than to moral...

[Ser Clegane]

Considering recent cases I just hope that R:TW will not get "banned" here in Germany for the realistic depiction of heads that are hurled upon enemies.

A localized German version were these guys would have to hurl pumpkins instead of heads would somehow lessen the immersion... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[rasoforos]

Head Hurlers , Description:

These fierce war bands are constituted by a multitude of warriors coming from different tribes around the world. What unites them is their common loyalty to the cause of historicaly correct gaming which they will defend at all costs. They are marching to battle holding the heads of CA game developers obtained after a surprise attack to the CA offices.

Properties:
Missiles cause fear to all game developers who try to make a gamecube game out of the total war series...

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

What a laugh this game will be http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Even i might say something if human skulls are destroying my legions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Ragss @ July 01 2004,12:08)]I dont mind the head hurlers, just so long as the heads dont do any damage, other than to moral...
Yes the damage factor in their description is what gets me... They don't actually look too bad as a unit, after all they are armed with swords and certainly look good enough.

A volley of heads at the enemy to wreck their morale before a charge could be very fun.

However I can't really imagine sustained head-throwing decimating a formation of Romans from long range

Still Vanya will be happy...

[Basileus]

im out of words right now, wasnt ecpecting to get knockdown while checking the org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[shingenmitch2]

All I can say is, too bad the game SPARTAN has a sh*ty battle engine. I'd buy that game and leave TW for good if it's battles were even close to the level of the original STW.

The Developers have lost all credibility with me. They told us to calm down, there are options and features... that's blowing smoke, they're making an arcade game and no amount of glossing over it can cover it up now. They are obviously headed down the pseudo-fantasy path and this will eventually hurt them. Oddly enough as this game strives for fantasy "wow" most of the WWII games strive for greater and greater accuracy as a selling point.

-----------------
NHL 2004–Xtreme:

"But the "Abyssal Demons" aren't an NHL team."

"Shut up, they're cool and their defensemen get to behead the opposing goaltenders in between periods..."

"... but I wanted to play a hockey game..."

[PSYCHO]

You do have to hand it to CA, these guys look absolutely stunninghttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ...but that's not the prob. It's the unit itself.

A bug-bear. These guys look just the same as the swordsmen guys with little to distinguish them but an over-emphasised habit of hurling heads. Disappointing that CA didn't base them in one of the say northern tribes, give them different apparel, weapons and make the head throwing thing a minor morale feature before closing in normal combat.

Just hope these guys are not going to be missile troops? I fear these heads may become the ‘weapons of mass destruction’ of the ancient world. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Barkhorn1x]

...and the Head Hurlers join the ever lengthening ranks of BS units;

War dogs
Screamin' Broads
King Tut dudes
Flaming pigs

But, one could imagine that for every one of us who reads this crap and is turned off by it there are 50 nitwits going, "Head Hurlers Cool, I'm gonna build about 50 of those units."

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

- figuratively hurling the heads above at CA.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Barkhorn.

[hoom]

Whats wrong with war dogs?
I thought there was a modicum of reality to them?

[Lord Aeon]

Quote[/b] ]...and the Head Hurlers join the ever lengthening ranks of BS units;

War dogs
Screamin' Broads
King Tut dudes
Flaming pigs

But, one could imagine that for every one of us who reads this crap and is turned off by it there are 50 nitwits going, "Head Hurlers Cool, I'm gonna build about 50 of those units."

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

- figuratively hurling the heads above at CA.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

Barkhorn.


Sure, because people buy this game just so they can make head-hurlers. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif
Gimme a break. What the hell is an army of head-hurlers gonna do against a phalanx or something? Nobody thinks this, except the imaginary CA supporters you feel so superior to in your 'us-against-the-world' fantasy.

In other words, you probably won't be using them to supplant archers, which incidently aren't on that list yet. Anyone consider what the exclusion of some important units from that list might suggest?

Why on earth do i even come here?

[Nelson]

Shogun has always sported units I don’t like, from Buddhist monks without armor to giant kensai supermen, battlefield ninja and Japanese crossbowmen. I don’t use them myself and with the exception of the monks the rest are rare to find among the AI ranks too. So it turns out that my fears about hoards of kensai and ninja were unfounded. Rome may be the same. If dogs and head hurlers in modest numbers only occasionally jar my sensibilities it won’t be so bad. If elephants are giving me fits, I just might be tempted to throw some flaming pork their way ONCE in the search for relief (and enjoy the result).

I’m not attempting to justify or rationalize any of CA’s decisions. I’m only suggesting that until we play the thing we can’t know what the practical impact of any of these units or features will really be. In the past I have been mostly mistaken and over concerned regarding things that I thought would bother me.

[rasoforos]

I dont know Nelson. Sometimes i feel like i m gonna wake up one day and go online just so see the CA announce 'Did you like our little fantasy unit joke? We ve been pulling your leg for a couple of years and you fell for it. To make up here is an accurate RTW for you'... but i somehow doubt RTW will be anywhere enar historic.
This genre seriously needs competition , even Obelix throwing menhirs in more believable than some things i ve seen allready...in small amounts or not.

[Hurin_Rules]

Well, if these units are in, then the Roman and their other enemies won't be the only units in history whose discipline and will to fight were sapped by a bit too much head. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Rufus]

According to the kid on "Jerry Maguire," the human head weighs about eight pounds. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Leaving aside whether hurling heads was historical or not, I would think that if someone could accurately and forcefully throw a bony eight-pound projectile at someone else and hit them in their head, it could knock them out.

In any event, I don't think it's anything to lose your head over. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[shingenmitch2]

...errrrr.... not when i'm wearing a helmet and can stick my shield in front of it. There's a reason heads weren't used as weapons -- they don't work.

So don't "I would think..." it sounds... um...

[Rufus]

Some units won't have shields or armor.

In any event I was being somewhat facetious. Or trying to.

[Barkhorn1x]

Quote[/b] ]Gimme a break. What the hell is an army of head-hurlers gonna do against a phalanx or something? Nobody thinks this, except the imaginary CA supporters you feel so superior to in your 'us-against-the-world' fantasy.

What the?? Is a Head Hurlers unit even REMOTELY historic?? Answer = NO It is a BS unit put in there to appeal to the console that have little or no knowledge of the events being "depicted".

For the record, I don't really have a problem with the shirtless hoplites - they are hoplites after all - or some minor name issues like "Chosen Swordsmen".

It's the BS units that I object to.


Quote[/b] ]In other words, you probably won't be using them to supplant archers, which incidently aren't on that list yet. Anyone consider what the exclusion of some important units from that list might suggest?

No - I won't be using them at all And why don't you tell us what the "exclusion" of important units means - because the rest of your comment makes very little sense to me.

Barkhorn.

[RisingSun]

This has to be a joke. It has to be. What the hell???

"July Fools"?????

It's... What the... I'm baffled. Seriously.

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Quote[/b] (Nelson @ July 01 2004,09:10)]Shogun has always sported units I don’t like, from Buddhist monks without armor to giant kensai supermen, battlefield ninja and Japanese crossbowmen. I don’t use them myself and with the exception of the monks the rest are rare to find among the AI ranks too. So it turns out that my fears about hoards of kensai and ninja were unfounded. Rome may be the same. If dogs and head hurlers in modest numbers only occasionally jar my sensibilities it won’t be so bad. If elephants are giving me fits, I just might be tempted to throw some flaming pork their way ONCE in the search for relief (and enjoy the result).

I’m not attempting to justify or rationalize any of CA’s decisions. I’m only suggesting that until we play the thing we can’t know what the practical impact of any of these units or features will really be. In the past I have been mostly mistaken and over concerned regarding things that I thought would bother me.
Actually the monks were completely fine. Remember Japanese armour looks and weighs differently then European. Plus it's a well known fact that most Sohei (buddhist warrior monks) usually wore thier robes and whatnot over thier armour. BFN arwent too bad, all that needs to be done is replace the stars with a musket. They were used several timesi n Japanese history. Kensai, well, it's not completely horrible. There were always legends on the field of samurai armed with only a katana, who took out quite a few foes before dyin. And Japanese crossbowmen? How can you have anything against them. They were used several times in Japanese history. The Chinese invented the crossbow for gods sake, it's no mystery that the Japanese had them.

As for Rome...

The dogs I have no problem with. Head Hurlers, well... The main prblem with this unit is that the heads will do damage. I have absolutely no problem with a morale sapper. Plus I'm sure the Celts did it at least once. It would make bloody sense Remeber al those night raids? It would definitely be effective for a night raiding unit like the one we saw not too long ago. I mean if your a Legionaire and all of a sudden a bloody svered head comes flying out at you in the middle of the night, I'm pretty sure you'd shit yourself. Thats what we can mod. Give those night raiding dudes the OPTION to hurl heads, and make them a big morale sapper instead of troop demolisher.

Also we should have the option to build a ghost fence in this gamei f were playing as the Celts. That would be pretty cool. Historical, and it will give all the nuts for severed heads, thier severed heads.

[Lil' Timmy]

well, in a sense, i like that CA is furthering the desent into fantasy.. it might bring more people around to the necessisity of modding http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif.

the exclusion of other units from IGNs description has nothing to do with the existing fantasy units.. i'm not sure what that comment was supposed to mean Aeon (i don't think anyone is complaining about briton faction as a whole..

anyway, these units will be easy to mod certainly..one could just change the projectile property to no damage and have it cause fear. wouldn't even need to change the model at all.

what about the war dogs? are they factual or not? it seems odd to have a whole unit of rotweilers, but i don't know much about that.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]what about the war dogs? are they factual or not? it seems odd to have a whole unit of rotweilers, but i don't know much about that.

The britons were known to have used hunting dogs for centuries. Whether they actually used packs of them in war is another matter.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ July 01 2004,06:27)]Head Hurlers , Description:

These fierce war bands are constituted by a multitude of warriors coming from different tribes around the world. What unites them is their common loyalty to the cause of historicaly correct gaming which they will defend at all costs. They are marching to battle holding the heads of CA game developers obtained after a surprise attack to the CA offices.

Properties:
Missiles cause fear to all game developers who try to make a gamecube game out of the total war series...
ROTFLMAO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif




As for the rest, I can only... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (shingenmitch2 @ July 01 2004,07:48)]All I can say is, too bad the game SPARTAN has a sh*ty battle engine. I'd buy that game and leave TW for good if it's battles were even close to the level of the original STW.

The Developers have lost all credibility with me. They told us to calm down, there are options and features... that's blowing smoke, they're making an arcade game and no amount of glossing over it can cover it up now. They are obviously headed down the pseudo-fantasy path and this will eventually hurt them. Oddly enough as this game strives for fantasy "wow" most of the WWII games strive for greater and greater accuracy as a selling point.

-----------------
NHL 2004–Xtreme:

"But the "Abyssal Demons" aren't an NHL team."

"Shut up, they're cool and their defensemen get to behead the opposing goaltenders in between periods..."

"... but I wanted to play a hockey game..."
That is a GOOD example if I ever saw one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (rasoforos @ July 01 2004,09:20)]I dont know Nelson. Sometimes i feel like i m gonna wake up one day and go online just so see the CA announce 'Did you like our little fantasy unit joke? We ve been pulling your leg for a couple of years and you fell for it. To make up here is an accurate RTW for you'... but i somehow doubt RTW will be anywhere enar historic.
Not gonna happen... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif



Quote[/b] ]This genre seriously needs competition , even Obelix throwing menhirs in more believable than some things i ve seen allready...in small amounts or not.
Our fun jokes about him months ago are feeling each time more historical than the current state of RTW, aren't they? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

[Axeknight]

How can you guys argue with 2,000 heads all being thrown at once? How funny would that be? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

As long as they don't cause any damage, they're fine with me. Maybe they'll be mixed in with slingers, so the morale bonus is even greater?

[Blodrast]

i have to agree with Axeknight, at least to some extent.
Dogs of war are kinda ok (I'll get back to the "kinda" later on).
Head-hurlers, hmm. They could be ok, if two conditions are met:
1. the _only_ effect they have is lower morale of enemy troops; no physical damage whatsoever (which is quite likely).
2. there is some limitation in the number of head-hurlers you can add to a stack. This also goes for the war dogs.
Why ? Well, it may sound odd and all, but it would be extremely weird to be able to build an army of, say, head-hurlers. Then yeah, it would start to look like warcraft...
Oh well, I guess nothing stops me from only adding a limited number of war dogs/head hurlers to my armies...

And I also agree that as ignorant as I may be about Celtic war units, I've never heard of "head-hurlers" (by any other name) as standalone units. It would have indeed been nicer if this feature could have been added to some "real" units.
For instance, you could upgrade your slingers/archers/whatever by retraining them in the Altar of Black Shuck and they would gain the "ability" to throw heads at the enemy, occasionally, in addition to the regular projectiles...
A unit that has no other purpose than to hurl heads does indeed seem to me a bit out of place. I'm sure there were other units that could have taken that place...

Oh well. We'll see in a few months, right ?

[The Wizard]

CA lost their chance to depict the Britons and other 'barbarians' as unique civilizations.

Instead, they opted to depict the Britons and other 'barbarians' as the usual stereotype: stinky, dumb, crazy, strange, did I forget anything?

A pity to the extreme.



~Wiz

[rasoforos]

I wonder if one of the CA guys will ever answer to one of these topics. Just a 'our marketing department told us a less accurate and more fantasy oriented game would be the best strategy for the company' would be enough for me...
Their silence is only telling us ' we couldnt care less about you guys , we allready got your money and now its time to make money from others as well, so Gamecube: Total War it is'

[The Wizard]

I mean, even I am lamenting this game, I cringed at druids wielding sickles (which didn't even look like the warsickles used in, for example, Lycia) and peltes, bare-chested hoplites, King Tut and co. back from the dead with mummy troops which smother your troops with linen and then eat them alive...

But this all is going a bit too far.

I don't give a crap that this is an old version. Ok, CA? It is bad enough that this was in, and it better be out in the newest version



~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Steppe Merc]

I think that they put the Egyptians out first so we'd just look at this and say "well, could be worse". And while it could, it just reinforces the need of the mod, to make the non-Greco/Romans into seprate indentities. And I guess we could use the same skins, and just rename them. But head chuckers? and Chosen swordsmen? At least they don't look as goblinish as before, I guess.

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

I honestly dont see what the hell you people have against "Chosen Swordsmen" I'm sure in all those tribes they had back then, there were at least a few guys who had some experience and were thus better swordsmen then the other fools. Sure the name could use a little work, but the unit itself? C'mon people...

[Swoosh So]

Alli can say is what a load of crap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif Wonder what bright spark at CA had this idea what a complete sham. Head hurlers lol if they wanted to make a fantasy game why not make one? Id like a fantasy game but its going to feel abit stupid with roman legions having head hurlers throwing heads at them that actually do damage lmao can these heads bring down an elephant i wonder :P DO they get ammo? lol My god CA save face and take them out what on earth are u doing everyones already raving about rome totalwar why add this nonsence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[Swoosh So]

Imo rome totalwar has now lost alot of its structure and belivability a crap mishmash of anything the CA team could think up i dread to think whats next.

[PSYCHO]

July 01 2004,12:22

[Swoosh So]

eh?

[Lil' Timmy]

yes, i agree whole-heartedly with PSYCHO's last post http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

[Nowake]

I haven't read the whole thread, but .. CA seems to depict barbarians as very feudal .. peasants? How come? Free warriors maybe.

Head Hurlers and Chosen Swordsmen? C'mon.

[Leet Eriksson]

Quote[/b] (The Sword of Cao Cao @ July 01 2004,13:16)]
Quote[/b] (Nelson @ July 01 2004,09:10)]Shogun has always sported units I don’t like, from Buddhist monks without armor to giant kensai supermen, battlefield ninja and Japanese crossbowmen. I don’t use them myself and with the exception of the monks the rest are rare to find among the AI ranks too. So it turns out that my fears about hoards of kensai and ninja were unfounded. Rome may be the same. If dogs and head hurlers in modest numbers only occasionally jar my sensibilities it won’t be so bad. If elephants are giving me fits, I just might be tempted to throw some flaming pork their way ONCE in the search for relief (and enjoy the result).

I’m not attempting to justify or rationalize any of CA’s decisions. I’m only suggesting that until we play the thing we can’t know what the practical impact of any of these units or features will really be. In the past I have been mostly mistaken and over concerned regarding things that I thought would bother me.
Actually the monks were completely fine. Remember Japanese armour looks and weighs differently then European. Plus it's a well known fact that most Sohei (buddhist warrior monks) usually wore thier robes and whatnot over thier armour. BFN arwent too bad, all that needs to be done is replace the stars with a musket. They were used several timesi n Japanese history. Kensai, well, it's not completely horrible. There were always legends on the field of samurai armed with only a katana, who took out quite a few foes before dyin. And Japanese crossbowmen? How can you have anything against them. They were used several times in Japanese history. The Chinese invented the crossbow for gods sake, it's no mystery that the Japanese had them.

As for Rome...

The dogs I have no problem with. Head Hurlers, well... The main prblem with this unit is that the heads will do damage. I have absolutely no problem with a morale sapper. Plus I'm sure the Celts did it at least once. It would make bloody sense Remeber al those night raids? It would definitely be effective for a night raiding unit like the one we saw not too long ago. I mean if your a Legionaire and all of a sudden a bloody svered head comes flying out at you in the middle of the night, I'm pretty sure you'd shit yourself. Thats what we can mod. Give those night raiding dudes the OPTION to hurl heads, and make them a big morale sapper instead of troop demolisher.

Also we should have the option to build a ghost fence in this gamei f were playing as the Celts. That would be pretty cool. Historical, and it will give all the nuts for severed heads, thier severed heads.
The Warrior Monks in Shogun is pretty close to being historically correct:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_d....ser=WAR (http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php?title=S5732&ser=WAR)

also shows the warrior monks on the front cover wearing robes and not armour.

Anyways back to topic,the Head Hurler are annoying,i mean thats a bit over the top right now,and i thought the only fudged up faction were the egyptians,thats why Ceasar cut his campaign short in britain i suppose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ,i'm betting CA will have some "cool" fictional units for every faction,and it does'nt end there with the british.

[shingenmitch2]

actually the armor is under the robes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[biguth dickuth]

I will not comment on the "Head-hurlers". It's painful enough already...

They also seem to have a certain love for scythed-chariots.
I had never heard before that the britons had scythed-chariots until i saw this picture (http://media.pc.ign.com/media/498/498739/img_2210760.html).

I think it's pointless to remind that only the Seleucids used scythe-chariots at the timeframe of the game and they became obsolete (the chariots) after a while, anyway.

[The_Emperor]

The Scythe chariot is a Hollywood myth... The Britons never used them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[nizar]

R:TW units reminds me of STAR WARS Attack of the clones. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Zanderpants]

Aw, common, give me more of a chance The hunting dogs, those are okay. The flaming pigs. Well, um, I don't think it should be a group of units, but the Romans did actually use those to scare elephants. The woad warriors are historic, and no, I'm not going off of Age of Empires. Celtic warriors would draw on themselves with woad quiet frequently before battle, as they believed it gave them power. Okay, head hurlers. Yeah, no comment. They look good, but are amazingly stupid.

[The_Emperor]

Collecting heads was a sign of a warrior's status within Celtic society, they were highly prized trophies.

During history one Roman commander had to tell his army of freed slaves (many of whom were suspected to have been Celts) to stop collecting heads and start winning the battle

[Steppe Merc]

Exactly If the heads are so importatn, would they waste throwing them?

[eds]

Personally I like the sound of these guys. I bet they'll be the source of much comedy during drunken lan games of RTW.

[Rosacrux]

Comedy is pretty close to accurately describing the current status of RTW, at least as far as unit-lineup is concerned http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

For the rest of the package we'll have to wait until we can get our hands on the finished product http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[The Wizard]

Oh come on, the gameplay is going to be great but marred (yes, only marred) by unit choices that are either close but not quite close enough, or plain stupid.



~Wiz

[Maedhros]

I wonder if in the face of negative critiques they'll release lee info when they do the next game: Silmarillion TW.


Sorry, shameless plug.

the first point stands though. Right beside my negative comments on the head hurlers.

[Quid]

Quote[/b] (Swoosh So @ July 02 2004,05:38)]Alli can say is what a load of crap http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif Wonder what bright spark at CA had this idea what a complete sham. Head hurlers lol if they wanted to make a fantasy game why not make one? Id like a fantasy game but its going to feel abit stupid with roman legions having head hurlers throwing heads at them that actually do damage lmao can these heads bring down an elephant i wonder :P DO they get ammo? lol My god CA save face and take them out what on earth are u doing everyones already raving about rome totalwar why add this nonsence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
As for the fantasy game, MdP did apparently hint to the GameStar crew that this would be one of his aims in the future. Also, they are working diligently at the expansion to RTW. Can't wait until that comes out...well, let's just calm down and actually wait for the RTW game to be released...am getting ahead of myself there...

Quid

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I think those heads are here to stay. They are in July 6 Res Romanae. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

[hundurinn]

Hmmm, hmmmmm, hmmmmmmmm. WTF, oh well hopefully gameplay will be better than the selection of units. Next it will be the Alexanders Zombie . Description: Alexander rose up as he watched the Successor states not conquering the world with his LOTR seeing stone. He decided to help them with the help of orch phalanx units transported from Sauron.

[Leet Eriksson]

Resident Evil Total War anyone?

i'm waiting for a battlefield ninja type of unit,i bet there are in RTW,as they were in MTW(Hashishin) and STW(BF Ninja).

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Quote[/b] ]i'm waiting for a battlefield ninja type of unit,i bet there are in RTW,as they were in MTW(Hashishin) and STW(BF Ninja).

That would be the head-throwing elite warband o' doom.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[alman9898]

The head hurlers sound kinda cool but they're the only unit that I really don't like too much. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[a_ver_est]

No stone walls ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

It could be a big disadvantage when defending a city and will force you play in a different way

I think that this will be a great game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[The_Emperor]

Actually celtic hillforts were very difficult to assault (and they tended to have the entire settlements contained upon them).

Vitrified Hillforts in Scotland included some stone in their contruction, but of course the resource had to be nearby to be used.

Look up Maiden Castle hillfort on a net search sometime... You'll see how big these things got

[Lil' Timmy]

they should fill the heads with napalm wh00t

[Earl of Sandwich]

looks like it won't be hard at all to make an updated version of ME:TW on the RTW engine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

Hey, maybe they'll make the British druids like the druids in Warcraft 3, and be able to turn into bears and then they could really kick ass. Oh, I'm not done yet. Maybe in Dacia you could create some vampires that go "bleh ble I 'vant to suck your blood"

[gaelic cowboy]

Quote[/b] (CBR @ June 30 2004,23:50)]
Quote[/b] ]Oh well, I'm expecting a somewhat volcanic response from some of you...


With units like Head Hurlers I cant see why anyone would make volcanic responses..


CBR
Hey what are CA playing at that's not a description of a hurler this is a hurler man hurlers in battle today (http://www.ict.mic.ul.ie/websites/work/conor_brennan/Hurl.jpg)

The description should be something like loads a fellas beating each other senceless even death with curved ash tree sticks with no armour and certainly no helmet

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

here is another two hard at it (http://www.ict.mic.ul.ie/websites/work/conor_brennan/dooraathenry.jpg)

Hey at least they didn't include an upgrade for the slingers to use brain balls from ancient irish legend apparently the scooped out brains of fallen enemies reduced down to rock hard pellets for use in a sling http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[gaelic cowboy]

Just copy pasted this hurling legend the following story is a famous ancient Irish story. You might have even heard it before. This is the first ever story in Ireland that mentions hurling.

The Legend of Cuchulainn

Setanta, a nephew of King Conor Mac Neasa of Ulster, was predicted to be destined for greatness, and as he grew older it became evident that this prophecy was to be fulfilled. The boy had gained knowledge and performed feats unusual for one of his age. At the age of five, he decided to join the Boys` Corps at the court of his uncle, King Conor. He set out for his uncle`s court at Emain Macha on foot, taking with him his hurling stick of bronze and a silver sliotar. He shortened many a mile by hurling the sliotar and throwing the hurley stick after it. He would run like the wind after them and catch them before they landed. In this way he soon arrived at Emain Macha. King Conor and the boys of the corps were astonished by his prowess on the hurling field. He could score with ease and when it was his turn to guard the goal, not one shot did he let in.

King Conor was invited to a banquet at the house of Culainn and he asked Setanta to accompany him. Setanta was playing a game of hurling at the time and told his uncle he would go to the banquet after the game. His uncle agreed to this and went on his own to the house of Culainn. When the guests were seated at the feast, Culainn asked the King if all the expected guests had arrived and the King replied that they had, forgetting all about Setanta. Culainn then unchained his magnificent hound to guard the house. Setanta arrived at Culainn`s house and the hound bayed like thunder and immediately sprang at him. Setanta, who had only his hurling stick and sliotar with him, hurled the ball with colossal force at the hound. The ball went into the gaping jaws of the huge animal and down into its throat. The hound was forced back by the pain of the blow. Immediately Setanta grabbed the hound by its legs and smashed its head on the stone courtyard. When Conor heard the hound baying he remembered Setanta and he rushed outside expecting to find him torn to pieces. He was overjoyed to see him unharmed.

Culainn was sorrowful at the loss of his hound which had guarded his home so well. Setanta consoled him and said he would find a young hound and train it to guard Culainn`s house. He volunteered to guard Cullain`s house and property himself until a worthy successor to the slain hound was found. King Conor decreed this to be fair. Thus, Setanta became known as Cuchulainn - the hound of Culainn.

[Colovion]

I've been playing games for a while.

This is the FIRST one that I've ever thought that it would be better after being Modded and also the first one that I've noticed such a lack of competence from what seemed like a once amazing developement team. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif