Chaos on the battlefield

[Duke of Gloucester]

I generally have a mixed army - 4 missile units to soften the enemy up, 4 or so spear units to pin the enemy and 4 or so cavalry units to attack them in the rear or the flank. This usually works and I usually win against the AI (on normal setting). However I am sure that I am not being as efficient as possible. Often my army end up disorganised and some units chase fleeing enemies and get isolated, attacked and killed. It is worse in battles with reinforcements. I am sure this is realistic However a good general should be able to avoid this. Any suggestions?

[tombom]

Quote[/b] (Duke of Gloucester @ July 03 2004,13:32)]I generally have a mixed army - 4 missile units to soften the enemy up, 4 or so spear units to pin the enemy and 4 or so cavalry units to attack them in the rear or the flank. This usually works and I usually win against the AI (on normal setting). However I am sure that I am not being as efficient as possible. Often my army end up disorganised and some units chase fleeing enemies and get isolated, attacked and killed. It is worse in battles with reinforcements. I am sure this is realistic However a good general should be able to avoid this. Any suggestions?
I don't know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif This tends to happen to me, especially with reinforcements. I just can't manage them. I can't manage my army well anyway, which doesn't really help... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-mad.gif

[Maeda Toshiie]

I generally have a mixed army - 4 missile units to soften the enemy up, 4 or so spear units to pin the enemy and 4 or so cavalry units to attack them in the rear or the flank. This usually works and I usually win against the AI (on normal setting). However I am sure that I am not being as efficient as possible. Often my army end up disorganised and some units chase fleeing enemies and get isolated, attacked and killed. It is worse in battles with reinforcements. I am sure this is realistic However a good general should be able to avoid this. Any suggestions?

Generic catholic setup:
4 cav (usually knights and including general unit)
4 spears
4 missile (up to pavise arbs)
4 swords (or polearms)

Generic turkish setup:
4 sacren
4 futuwaas
2 ghulam BG
2 AHC
4 turcoman horse

Havent tried elmos or egptians so cant suggest.

The enemy generally flees in a general direction of their side of the field. Aim at the main mob of them who are fleeing. Hound them till they flee. Try to use only cav to purse (draw them out into thinner formations). Using of infantry is limited to against other enemy infantry (preferrably slower ones) who are isolated from the main enemy mob. Have the rest of the army not pursuing to continue marching behind the pursuers. This is so that when the enemy rallies, your cav can pull back and be supported by the rest of the army. After the initial rout, the morale of the enemy is already lowered. Routing them again is usually easier. Also, withdraw units that you wish to be replaced (and call up the new ones once they can).

Once wave 1 is taken care of, you have to option of camping out there in front of their deployment zone or return to your side and camp (and rest as well).

I cant remember if the rally flag for reinforcements was implemented only in VI or not. If you can set the reinforcement flag, set it at a good location, the high ground where your army should be deploying.

Due to the speed of the arrival of reinforcements, I tend to fight without reinforcements, unless I resort to camping tactics against a vastly superior enemy force which would see my 16 units half chewed after the first wave. (or that I have the time to fight out 2hours ++ battles)

General tips:
1. Max the camera turning and movement speed. This greatly improves situation awareness and dealing with scattered armies.

2. Use the shift button to ensure your camera zooms around. Use it in conjunction with the mouse to move the camera (as opposed to using arrow keys).

3. If you use HAs, the pause button can be used. However, try not to use it too much if you intend to multiplayer.

4. Unlocking of camera is NOT adviced. It breeds bad habits.

5. Double click on the unit tab (at bottom of the screen) to zoom over to the unit. Moving your mouse/ arrow keys would help to jump the view over directly.

6. At windows, increase the speed of your mouse movement to max and cut the acceleration to zero. (I am not joking about this).

Finally, practice makes perfect. I did, as did may others out there. Of course having played stw before certainly did help.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Thanks, Maeda. I'll give the tips a try. I think the best tip is to avoid chasing with foot units. From now on I will only chase routers with cavalry.

The rally flag is available, and I do use it the way you suggest.


Quote[/b] ]Generic catholic setup:
4 cav (usually knights and including general unit)
4 spears
4 missile (up to pavise arbs)
4 swords (or polearms)

Where do you place the sword units in the battle line? I find they are vulnerable to cavalry charges.

[tombom]

Wow Excellent post Maeda Toshiie

[Maeda Toshiie]

As for how you setup your lines would depend on how the enemy deploy, whether you are marching towards him or he is the one charging, composition of the enemy.

I place my swords/halbs behind my spear wall and towards the flanks when I am expecting a cav heavy enemy who would be charging straight in.

I place my spears at the flanks and let my swords/halbs face the enemy if he goes for an infantry push and attempt to flank with his cav instead.

Always entice the enemy into attacking, not charging straight uphill against him unless there is no other option.

IF you are forced to absorb a charge with swords, put them 5 deep at least and hold formation. Thereafter countercharge. Dont ever stand still. Thereafter get someone to help you swords out.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Once again, fantastic advice, Maeda. Can't wait to put it use


Quote[/b] ]IF you are forced to absorb a charge with swords, put them 5 deep at least and hold formation. Thereafter countercharge. Don't ever stand still. Thereafter get someone to help you swords out.

What is the advantage of getting swords to hold formation and have deep ranks? I can see how this helps with spearmen because of the rank bonus, but swordsmen don't get a rank bonus and so isn't it better to have them in a thin line and engage at will to get as many sword fighting as possible?

(Hope this isn't too many questions)

[Maeda Toshiie]

What is the advantage of getting swords to hold formation and have deep ranks? I can see how this helps with spearmen because of the rank bonus, but swordsmen don't get a rank bonus and so isn't it better to have them in a thin line and engage at will to get as many sword fighting as possible?

You see, the main danger of cavalry, in particular knights, is their charge. Some feel that currently their charge is not enough but I digress. You have to understand how a charge works.

Basically a unit charge (esp cav), they have the push back effect. Eg, a cav charge, upon impact, they would (usually) kill and push back (with morale impact on the recieving unit). In that first melee cycle when they kill, they lose a part of their charge momentum. They then continue onto the next guy. Again if they kill, they lose a part of their momentum and continue on, until the momentum runs out. However if they fail to kill, they lose their charge bonus and normal melee resumes.

Why I say hold formation? Thats to shift 3 from atttack to defense. Spears/pikes can recieve charges because of their anti-cav defense bonuses and rank bonuses. The idea is to absorb the effect of the charge without the unit's morale from breaking. A heavy cav/knight charge can easily break a unit's morale.

Morale effects (from an old dev's post):

-2 Morale if unit takes 10% casualties
-8 Morale if unit takes 50% casualties
-12 Morale if unit takes 80% casualties
-8 Morale maximum if unit is Losing (could be less)
-6 Morale additional to infantry Losing against Cavalry

In a deep formation, the charge would be less able to disrupt the formation of the unit. At two ranks, the cav would easily punch a hole (at wedge and the AI does use wedge). -2 morale if the unit is disorganised. The initial charge would break the unit before it can start fighting.

I say counter-charge is to help by using the charge of the unit to counteract a *little* the cav charge.

From FBE's guide, she says charge at the knights. But thats only for halbs (plain/swiss/billmen/JHI), since they have +1 to attack against cav and anti armour (considerable bonus against knights). Again this is risky, esp for billmen with their rather low morale.

Also, if absorbing a charge, let them come uphill if possible and esp in the trees if possible.

(Hope this isn't too many questions)

Answered far more noobish qns at .com. Look at my sig. Not me, but I quoted an old-timer there.

[Maeda Toshiie]

There is no edit button in the forums here right?

Bah, forgot to add some things:

The reason why I speed up my mouse movement is to allow my mouse to move around by just flicking my wrist and fingers. I can easily move my cursor to the edge of the screen and shift the camera. This with the shift key enables rapid movement.

Last point. Know the keyboard short cuts-well. They are very useful and time saving. Left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse.

[nick_maxell]

Quote[/b] (Maeda Toshiie @ July 03 2004,10:50)]There is no edit button in the forums here right?

Bah, forgot to add some things:

The reason why I speed up my mouse movement is to allow my mouse to move around by just flicking my wrist and fingers. I can easily move my cursor to the edge of the screen and shift the camera. This with the shift key enables rapid movement.

Last point. Know the keyboard short cuts-well. They are very useful and time saving. Left hand on the keyboard and right on the mouse.
Excelent post maeda welcome - you will be able to edit when you are promoted to senior patron (which will be fairly soon considering this thread)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

nick

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Maeda Toshiie @ July 03 2004,17:18)]Why I say hold formation? Thats to shift 3 from atttack to defense.
Maeda Toshiie

Hold formation gives only +2 defence and -2 attack. That should help against the pushback (off course, you still need a thick formation) but once the charge is over, engage-at-will is better unless you need to preserve rank bonus (which swordsmen don't have). So I agree with you that hold formation is good for recieving charges, but switch to engage-at-will after a few seconds when not using spear- or pike-armed troops.

Duke of Gloucester, use the group key to form battle groups: left flank (flankers: cav and swordsmen), centre (spearmen), missile, right flank. That makes it much easier to keep track of individual units.
It is also nice that the unit icons of a new groups alway are put at the right of the screen. So if you group them in the order I represented above, the unit icons are in the same order as your units on the battlefield.

[gaijinalways]

Yes the group buttons help nicely in keeping some units in a buddy sysetm. Also always check on units when the enemy starts routing as sometimes even missile units will follow and follow(sometimes at their peril).

Since I don't play multi-player (my current computer with the necessary graphics card for MTW is not on-line), I make use of the pause button for re-issueing orders. You sometimes need to double check on impetutous units as they will disobey sometimes and chase routers or enemy troops who are retreating. These same kinds of units may also march away father forward than you would like at the beginning of a battle as well.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Will follow it and let you know how I get on.

[BigCheese]

Very usefull information Maeda Toshiie,
thanx m8. Not sure if this is th e write place to ask this question. But Ludens said in his post that hold position is good for recieving charges I was wondering how holding position compared with meeting a charge with a charge.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (BigCheese @ July 05 2004,12:08)]Not sure if this is th e write place to ask this question. But Ludens said in his post that hold position is good for recieving charges I was wondering how holding position compared with meeting a charge with a charge.
Actually, I would really like to know that too.
In STW cavalry did not get a charge bonus when attacking spearmen frontally and I think it's still the same in MTW.
But does this still apply when the spearmen are charging too? If yes, then countercharging is definitely worth it, because of the high charge bonus of spears. If no, then standing still is a better option.
But then, there is the pushback-effect to consider. Do cavalry create a better pushback-effect when their opponents are moving too?

This all in assumption that the spearmen receive full rank bonus when charging, and that only applies when they have been charging over short distances. If they aren't fully formed up, don't charge. The power of speartroops (including their charge) comes from their rank bonus, so charging without it is pointless. Better give them a chance to form up.
The exception to this are Muwahid Foot because they have an inherently powerful charge.

[Imperial Buffoon]

Quote[/b] (Duke of Gloucester @ July 03 2004,08:48)]I think the best tip is to avoid chasing with foot units. From now on I will only chase routers with cavalry.
That's a good rule of thumb, however, if you only have 4 cavalry units and one is your general (don't use your general's unit to pursue routers, it can be very risky if he gets isolated) 3 units is not much.

When you're facing a very large force, you can rely on local superiority to rout all the enemy troops on the field of battle even from the first wave, if you then pursue them and keep them routing, you can end the battle without having the face the rest of them.

You will usually need to rout a couple of reinforcement units. Local superiority - having 3 units close to an enemy unit, eventually charging, will rout the enemy without contact unless the general is still in the battle and/or it's an elite unit.

Now, to achieve this, you're usually going to need more than 3 cav units so you'll need to let your swords and/or spears charge routers and camp in the deployment area. It's risky and takes practice to do well - i.e. without getting crushed by reinforcements - but definitely a plus when heavily outnumbered. My advice will be to charge either only with cav or with at least half your army.

[Maeda Toshiie]

Hold formation gives only +2 defence and -2 attack.

Bah, made a mistake there. Thanks for the correction. Confused the stats with wedge.

Actually, I would really like to know that too.
In STW cavalry did not get a charge bonus when attacking spearmen frontally and I think it's still the same in MTW.
But does this still apply when the spearmen are charging too? If yes, then countercharging is definitely worth it, because of the high charge bonus of spears. If no, then standing still is a better option.
But then, there is the pushback-effect to consider. Do cavalry create a better pushback-effect when their opponents are moving too?

Hold position merely prevents the unit from chasing after the unit if it disengages. It does not make any difference on the def/atk.

In MTW cav does obtain their charge bonus when charging. The cav charge system was changed in MTW to help the knights for their small size. You would notice it. At first the cav would be winning easily (due their charge) before slowly losing it.

I think push-back effect is lessen if your spears are charging. Both sides would have the momentum.

This all in assumption that the spearmen receive full rank bonus when charging, and that only applies when they have been charging over short distances. If they aren't fully formed up, don't charge. The power of speartroops (including their charge) comes from their rank bonus, so charging without it is pointless. Better give them a chance to form up.

A debate mentioned in FBE's guide. What I do (and some others do is this). Order your spears to attack (single click and not double click). This so that they would only start running at the last bit to charge, helping to keep their formaion integrity. A second or 2 after the initial contact. Hit the backspace key to stop them from pressing the attack and get them to maintain their formation better. NOTE that by hitting the halt key, your spears would allow the cavalry to disengage and attempt the charge again.


The exception to this are Muwahid Foot because they have an inherently powerful charge.

Given their unit size, their best use is to be drawn into 2 ranks, engage at will and charge at the flanks.

When you're facing a very large force, you can rely on local superiority to rout all the enemy troops on the field of battle even from the first wave, if you then pursue them and keep them routing, you can end the battle without having the face the rest of them.

If you are muslim with a lot of HAs, there shouldnt be too big a problem. I tend to aim for the general to kill him first (if ruler then to make him flee and gain -ve morale vices). Problem is with catholic armies, since there arent too many tactical options available, just the standard flanking.

[Duke of Gloucester]

I've been fighting battles using the advice given and graduated to playing on high. The biggest change I have made is using sword units more often for flanking attacks. Early on in playing the game I had some bad experiences with FMAA being routed by cavalry charges so I went through a phase of leaving them out of my armies. This was a mistake; a silly mistake for someone who played a lot of STW and loved No-Dachi.

Once the enemy units rout, I make sure my foot units don't follow too far. If a unit on the left flank routs, it is much more effective to use the units that have defeated them to attack the remaining standing enemy units in the flank/rear, rather than have your army disperse following beaten enemies in different directions. Once the majority of enemy units has routed, I do follow up with the entire foot army. I don't get too close to the enemy deployment zone, because I am not skilled enough to respond effectively to the arrival of lots of reinforcement's very close. I didn't know about local superiority - thanks Buffoon - so I will try to capitalise on this when facing armies just over the deployment limit, but with huge enemy forces, I am going to hold back until my overall army control improves.

I use cavalry to neutralize threats from enemy cavalry and to pursue routing units. I make sure my leader does get stuck in because the not so bold thread of vices is a real pain, but I don't let him get too far away from the main army, because his proximity (I think) increases morale.

Thanks for the advice all. It's made a big difference to my performance.

[Imperial Buffoon]

Quote[/b] (Maeda Toshiie @ July 05 2004,12:11)]Problem is with catholic armies, since there arent too many tactical options available, just the standard flanking.
Actually, you can do a pincer movement (flank on both sides of your main body and then attack from two opposite directions) or a hammer and anvil (move a force on one side, say spears, and charge from the other side to force the enemy to either charge your spears or take the charge from your cav).

Both of these can be done with a bit of care (and sometimes repetition) even if your units are slower. I try to always use the pince against HA unless I have loads of pavs. The trick is that for a short while you are outnumbered somewhere as you have 2 vs 1 locally, but that 2 vs 1 plus the charge will make HA rout instantly (or be slaughtered pretty quickly). From there on, you have superiority in the battlefield and can try to rout the whole of the other army.

[Papewaio]

Easiest way to keep my armies in order is that I arrange them on the battlefield like they are in the unit listing at the bottom.

So when facing the enemy my left most spearmen is the spear unit that is the left most etc.

This may take a crossover on the way to the battle as they are deployed right to left (the units at the bottom you will notice that the ones on the left are deployed on the right in the battlefield).

When setting up as defender I arrange them prior to starting the battle in a logical left to right pattern that is in line with the guys at the bottom of the unit panel.

From then on I know that the left guys on my unit panel are on my left flank.

[Duke of Gloucester]

This is greatadvice, but I am so dim I always forget and make the wrong group first and have to start again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[katank]

yep. I love keeping the units in the order of the tabs and you can react so much faster. less pausing too.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Maeda Toshiie @ July 05 2004,19:11)]Hold position merely prevents the unit from chasing after the unit if it disengages. It does not make any difference on the def/atk.
You are right. BigCheese apparently confused 'hold position' with 'hold formation' (this resemblance has been causing confusion since the founding of the Org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ), and I read 'hold formation' in stead of 'hold position', because we have been discussing the former.


Quote[/b] ]In MTW cav does obtain their charge bonus when charging. The cav charge system was changed in MTW to help the knights for their small size.
Thank you, I did not know that. I guess it is also to compensate for the rank bonus.


Quote[/b] ]I think push-back effect is lessen if your spears are charging. Both sides would have the momentum.
Perhaps, but units (read: spearmen) are more spread out when moving than when standing. You can see this if you give a unit a move order: the first rank will start walking slightly earlier than the second.


Quote[/b] ]A debate mentioned in FBE's guide. What I do (and some others do is this). Order your spears to attack (single click and not double click). This so that they would only start running at the last bit to charge, helping to keep their formaion integrity. A second or 2 after the initial contact. Hit the backspace key to stop them from pressing the attack and get them to maintain their formation better. NOTE that by hitting the halt key, your spears would allow the cavalry to disengage and attempt the charge again.
This is about the same thing I do, except for hitting backspace. I think that it is no use trying to get back in formation once the fight has started. It will only result into individual soldiers turning their back on the enemy to try to get in the unit again.

[ichi]

I think that minimizing chaos on the battlefield is the number one challenge in this game. Managing 16 units at once is quite a task. I am certainly not the best at this, but here's some of my techs:

Groupings - Grouping is the first step to reducing chaos

Like Pape said, I hard group units from left to right so that their position in my army reflects their position on the icons at the bottom. By hard group I mean select one unit, then hold down Control and select another unit, then hit G.

I do not hard group my Cav or my pavs/archers. When units are hard grouped they will wheel about when you try to turn them, and this is a problem when making cav charges or when you want to pull your pavs back.

It is hard to explain, but fight a custom battle and hard group two cav and charge them, then try to disengage them. As they try to whell on eahc other, they keep getting stuck. Now try the same move with two cav that are not grouped and watch how well they disengage when ordered to do so.

So how do you control a lot of cav? Use the soft grouping option. Select several units and then hold down Control-Shift-number (like control-shift-1 or control-shift-2). Now when you hit Control-number it will select those units.

I use Ctrl-Shift-1 for some missiles, Ctrl-Shift-2 for some Cav, Ctrl-Shift-3 for my inf

Ctrl-letter. Use Ctrl-A to select all units, Ctrl-M for all missiles, Ctrl-C for cav, Ctrl-H for hand-to-hand units.

Ctrl-double click. Select a unit from the icons at the bottom of the screen - now hold Ctrl and double click your mouse to select all of the same type of unit.

The Golden Box. The best kept secret in the game. Use Control-Right Click on your mouse to draw a box on the field. All units within the box will be selected. This is very helpful when you want to stop a group of units in one area and rediriect them.

The Halt Key. Select all (Ctrl-A) or whatever group and hit halt. This is one of the best ways to stop your inf from chasing. Units that are fighting will continue to do so, while those are chasing will stop.

Hold Position. Set your missiles on hold pos and they will not wander off. Take them off hold pos if the entire battle starts to move around or your missiles will always start walking back to their original location unless you reset them.

The Shift-click. Use the shift-click to give multiple commands. This is particualry useful when you want a unit to flank. Hold shift and click a coupel of points around the flank to the back, then keep holding shift and double click on the unit you want to attack.

Fire and Forget. Develop a system of management that allows you to give a unit a command then you move onto the next unit or group. Fire and forget, at least until you come back around on the rotation to review the troops.

Each battle has its own flavor, but there is a pattern. A missile battle, then the clash of the main line, then the flanking. So be prepared to set your line and then focus on the flanking - the line will hold or not without much management (compared to the amount of management a flank takes).

Focus on the important units - if a unit of archers has wandered off and is getting chased by a unit of inf, it ain't nearly as important as that unit of heavy cav that is working around your flank. Focus on your best units, those with the most men remaining, those least fatigued, those in the important part of the battle.

And the corollary - do not waste time on unimportant things. That unit of 12 Mounted Sergants that is totally exhausted and way over in the far corner. Hey, not an issue. Maybe, maybe, tell them to come back to the center, but do not waste any time on them.

Stop and regroup. I play with the clock turned off. When the AI or my MP enemy is scattered I regroup almost all of my guys. Select those I want to regroup and then order them to a central, defensible spot on the map. Use cav to chase or finish off isolated enemies while the bulk of your army reorganizes.

Walk when you can. I see so many guys who run their troops all over, only to get to their destination totally exhausted and worthless. Walk.

When I regroup I try to reset my units to their original 3-4 deep formation, even when they only have 10-20 guys left.

Camera - double click on a unit icon and the camera will zoom to a point where you will be looking over that units shoulder. You can instantly go there if, after double-clicking, you hit any key.

The space bar. Hit the space bar to see ghosts of units at their destinations.

Do not use the Pause button. This is a poor substitute for learning. Even when getting my ass kicked I don't use it - it is like a crutch that keeps you from developing skills (ah, ichi on his soapbox)

Hope this helps

ichi

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Pursuing only with cavalry

Yes, it is better to break off pursuit by a good infantry unit, turn around and attack another unit from behind -- usually.

However, I'll be d----d if I'm going to let a routed unit of Chivalric Men At Arms live to fight another day.

Also, it is not always a good idea to send your cavalry out to pursue routers, not while there's still a battle to be won.

Fanatics, Slav Warriors and Muwahid foot are good examples of fast infantry who won't take long to finish off the pursuit of a normal-speed infantry unit.

[Inuyasha12]

I usally never chase with infantry. If they catch up to the enemy they can barely do any damage. With regular infantry i usually get them back into formation and march after the enemy, if they rally i will have a organized infantry force, if they don't i havent wasted my time chasing them down. With slow infantry i never chase, ever

I usually chase a infantry unit with cavalry, with the infantry marching behind. If the cavalry is doing a good job of capturing prisoners i let them finish, if they are not for whatever reason(they are tired, they are too few, the enemy is too fast) Then i pull them back, and put them back into the main force.

I never chase after cavalry, it never works. Even slow cavalry can get away from other cavalry, and are usually heavily armoured. I usually just let them rum away, but always keep an eye out for the if they rally.

[Doug-Thompson]

Whether the chasing unit is infantry or cavalry doesn't matter. What matters is:

1. Is the unit faster than the unit it is chasing?
2. Does it have enough melee power to do something if it catches it?

I'd rather have a little more speed and an plenty of melee power than have a lot more speed and very little melee power --- because pursuit doesn't last long if there's enough melee power.

In other words, FINISH them quickly.

Rather than take the thread off topic, I'll open up a thread on pursuit.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ July 06 2004,17:16)]Yes, it is better to break off pursuit by a good infantry unit, turn around and attack another unit from behind -- usually.

However, I'll be d----d if I'm going to let a routed unit of Chivalric Men At Arms live to fight another day.

Also, it is not always a good idea to send your cavalry out to pursue routers, not while there's still a battle to be won.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, it is better to break off pursuit by a good infantry unit, turn around and attack another unit from behind -- usually.

However, I'll be d----d if I'm going to let a routed unit of Chivalric Men At Arms live to fight another day.


In all the battles I have fought, these guys only rout when charged by cavalry, or reduced to a really small unit. In that case I am not too bothered about them escaping.


Quote[/b] ]Also, it is not always a good idea to send your cavalry out to pursue routers, not while there's still a battle to be won.


How true Got badly mauled by the poles last night making exactly this mistake. Outnumbered 2:1 but on a very steep hill - chased the routers with my 3 units of FK's and 1 Unit of RK's. They got tired and had to pull back in the face of Polish re-inforcements. Weren't much use at in supporting the defence of the hill. You live and learn

[Maeda Toshiie]

Another thing I have noticed of the AI. If the unit gets too heavily depleted, it would rally and then withdraw off, usually to enable reinforcements to enter. When you see that, break off pursuit and regroup.

Sometimes I would let depleted units to do. Why? This is so that the AI would be sending in a whole bunch of depleted units to fight next time round, making them easy prey.

[Assassins_Shadow]

One thing that helps me is to put my army into large groups before battle, I dont really use these big blocks of units when i get to the nitty gritty, but once I've got the enemy on the run having to only click on four buttons to get your whole army to stop is allot easier than telling each individual unit to stop chasing and form back up.