Why don't you multi?

[CrackedAxe]

I could be wrong about this, but judging from the TW forums, there seems to be a lot of players who have internet access but don't get involved in MP games. I think that multi-player is the ultimate TW game and makes playing the AI seem pretty lame. I'm just curious then, as to why ppl don't play online. Sheer nosiness really, but I'd be interested to read some responses.

[Divine Wind]

Mainly bad experiences for me.

Generally just having players that are rude and immature, telling me that im this and that. Not enjoyable.

Also i hate gsa, and the constant crashing.

I would love to play mp if the browsers were like the old shoggie lobby.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shogunshame.gif

[CrackedAxe]

Maybe things have changed, but things seem pretty stable now, gsa and all. The idiots are a minority and are easy to ignore, plenty of decent, civil people on there. I'd recommend having another go at it.

[Xiphias]

Rock-paper-scissors strategy has never appealed to me. The AI can be outbuilt or autoresolved so you don't have to use it in single player but online it'll just earn you a quick defeat.

I do play games online but I find bouncing around rocket spamming and driving buggies over cliffs in UT2004 is much more enjoyable then building and moving hoards of troops in strategy games.

[CrackedAxe]

Well, I play call of duty as well as MTW online (Halo and Far Cry also) and I think that MTW is just as much fun, albeit in a very different way. There is certainly nothing 'rock,paper,scissors' about MP games, not when playing other vets anyway, tactical thinking is a must.

[HicRic]

I don't play because my computer is laggy in battles in SP. In MP..well, let's just say battles won't be fun at half a frame per second. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Beirut]

I'd like to try sometime, but have no idea of how. (I guess I could ask.)

Done loads of MP flying, that's great fun. A bit of Ghost Recon co-op also, which is great.

If I could find a place where the people are not smack-talkers and patient with a newbie MP-er, I'd give 'er a go.

[CBR]

Yes just ask http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Sure there are idiots on the server but use the forums and get to know some multiplayers. There are lots of nice people who are willing to teach newbies the game.

Gamespy Arcade is not needed to play MP its just one way of doing it. Although we dont have multiple chatrooms its still very much like Shogun days. Crashing and disconnects from server has been reduced a lot but of course sometimes the server has a bad day..


CBR

[gaelic cowboy]

Unfortunately despite Bill Gate protestations to the contary the Internet is too much hassle at 56k and in Ireland cost money too so sadly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

[Bhruic]

I'm just not that interested in the concept of MP battles. While I find battles in SP fun, I wouldn't play the game if it wasn't for the strategic map. Simply choosing a bunch of guys and heading to the battlefield isn't really appealing.

Bh

[mercian billman]

GC, 56k is just fine for MTW. The biggest factor is your ram 512 is enough to host a lag free 4 vs 4, I have 256 so I only host 2 vs 2 games.

Beirut, there are lots of people willing to help a newb. Check the .net their having a adopt a newb contest, where a veteran player trains a newb, and they fight in a tournament. It would be a great way to start playing MP. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Shahed]

Played over 1500 MP games in MTW, too boring... much better games for MP out there. I got tired becuase people always played the same maps, lame complaining, lame clan politics, but MOST of all becuase there was a limitation of tactics and people always used the same map and same armies, without fail.

I had a LOT of FUN though and wish to thank my adversaries and allies alike, specially Sjak, DLX, Kanuni, Tempy, Mag, Aziz, Koc, Puzz, CBR, Satake, Baz (where are you mate ??? ), Scar, Dilshad, Orda, Bomi, and the 200 others who made my MP experience most enjoyable. I have not forgotten you all In fact I remember many battles as if we were fighting them now, so vivdly I remember them that even you may have forgotten. Chavush on that Saturday morning while I have a hangover with his unbeatable Turkish army CBR the first time I played him with a weak center, strong flanks Byzantine, yes I remember the first time I played with you CBR

And Sjak how could I forget the first time I met you in battle. When you were in the lobby and no one was joining your game, they were scared of a Seljuk (damm cowards). When my army walked upto yours and paused to scout the woods behind yours I asked you "How many men in the forest ?" and you replied with absolute honesty "None", and you weren't lying That was our first battle and it forged our friendship.

You all taught me a lot about this game but more importantly, you taught me a lot about myself.

Good Luck wherever you are, for those who I have not seen in a while

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[eds]

If people hosted desert games more, I think multiplay would be much better.

Muslim factions are great fun, but not so good outside of desert environments online. Maps are just too small.

[Magraev]

I don't want to stress when I'm relaxing. As a result I don't play games that can't be paused.

Besides I enjoy the strategic part of the game more than the tactical.

Finally I usually edit unit- and/or startpos files.

[WorkNeglecter]

Fear of getting mauled. I already have a hard time managing 16 units in SP without pausing, I think I'd have a heart attack in MP.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[gaelic cowboy]

Quote[/b] (mercian billman @ July 04 2004,16:19)]GC, 56k is just fine for MTW. The biggest factor is your ram 512 is enough to host a lag free 4 vs 4, I have 256 so I only host 2 vs 2 games.
Heh heh I always just asummed it was beyond me in 56k land but I still wont be trying cant really tie up the one phone on everyone else pity all day for MTW pity really.

[Sternness]

I too simply assumed my 56k modem wouldn't cut it. I mean, I downgraded from a sweet cable line to 56k, and in doing so I went from playing 70% of my games online to about nothing. Maybe I should give MTW a shot online.

[Blodrast]

i find that unless you're in a clan already and have constant (more or less) partners to play with, MP is not really that easy or pleasant to do.
I'd like to state my position clearly: I've not given up, and I'm gonna still try to log on occasionally when time allows it, in the hope of finding a decently challenging and fun fight. I'm just not too optimistic anymore; heck, I'm downright pessimistic about it to say the truth.

This is what it looks like from the perspective of a noob-ish clanless outsider:

- i am behind a firewall so i can't host; can't touch the firewall (well, i could, but then i'd go straight to jail).
- most of the time is spent waiting for someone to host a game that is not exclusively dedicated to his/her clan members. I was also surprised at the relatively high number of games played with modded versions (I just use vanilla VI).
It is annoying (to me) to have to wait loong minutes in the lobby just watching the idle mindless spam which kinda conflicts with the way more mature atmosphere around the forums.
- finally, you join a game. hardly any interaction at all with your allies. I tried to point out what I thought was a weakness in a flank, it was simply ignored. 's ok, I don't mind. I'm not an expert, far from it. Another ally said "Each attack only your own enemy". Which I guess happens most of the time, at least in the beginning. But then what's the point in having a 3vs3, or a 4vs4 ? I might as well play 1vs1 and have less lag... And what did make me sad was the fact that I was _seeing_ the other guys working together, helping each other. As a matter of fact, I lost that particular battle precisely because one of the allies of my direct enemy sent 2 or 3 RK's to his help and flanked me, eventually leading to my troops routing. I saw it coming, the others saw it coming, and even though some of them were not engaged yet and could have spared some troops, they did not do anything.
Don't get me wrong; I don't care that I lost; losing a game after a good battle is way more satisfying to me than winning without a shadow of doubt that I can overcome my adversary. But I do care that what could have been a nice battle turned into a more or less uninteresting 1vs1.

And it wasn't just one game. There were several like this, virtually with no communication. I can't impose myself as the "leader" of one side, and I wouldn't want to if I could. But I would like to see more interest in cooperation and actually playing as one side, not each for himself.

You guys are saying that there are enough vets out there who are willing to teach, and talk, and discuss stuff. I haven't been in a game with one so far.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not whining about MP sucking or anything. I'm just trying to express what it looks like from my perspective. I also believe it could be more fun with a bit of cooperation between people (I personally would enjoy it more than just going head to head against my direct adversary). And that it would be nicer if the lobby was more used for hosting games, rather than a chat room.
But maybe it's my timezone, who knows.

probably time to end my rant though. Leave ppl some more time to go to the lobby and play a game rather than reading my whines ;)

[Dimeola]

From the beginning I played alot. I much prefer MP. I dont play anymore. Too many jerks who were rude if you didnt live up to their expectations. And as the Florin level for games went down I had trouble buying a good army. Guess I wasnt playing enough to have that skill. To be fair there are alot of great people that play MP. But for me it stopped being fun.
Dimeolas

[hoom]

I don't because the server always refuses to accept my CD key as valid http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Gith]

MP is fun, though I've only played 5 times or so. Lost 4, won 1. I just get tired of waiting for games, putting up with "2 MORE IN GAME PLZ KTHX" spammed a dozen times, and the obvious ploy of "NEWBZ ONLY", in which it is almost always a couple of guys in the same clan defending against whatever newbies they can lure in.

Also, after tons of custom battles, I've yet to create a more enjoyable battle than those that occur in the campaign. Not to mention that while the battles are fun, they lose purpose when you have no aftermath from either winning/losing. There just doesn't seem like much of a point.

[TonkaToys]

Currently too worried about the poor standard of my playing, don't want to show myself up too much. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

Also prefer working with people, rather than against so would like to play a MP battle where as Boldrast says,

Quote[/b] ]I would like to see more interest in cooperation and actually playing as one side, not each for himself.

Finally, there is just not enough time in the day I hardly get to play SP, haven't even had a chance to finish one campaign and still haven't unwrapped VI which I got in Feb.

Now for a shameless plug... I'm working on a MP Campaign system which should suit some of you guys. Plenty of work still to be done, but I am open to suggestions on game play, interfaces, what should / should not be in, etc.
It should make things more interesting...


Quote[/b] ]constant (more or less) partners
you know who your opponents are likely to be as there are only a certain number of players per game.


Quote[/b] ]the Florin level for games went down
your army will be built in a similar way to the SP campaign system, or else you will be able decide to run a single uber-army or many smaller armies.


Quote[/b] ]they lose purpose when you have no aftermath from either winning/losing
There will be an aftermath in this system, gain / loss of territory, decimation of army and increased income.


Quote[/b] ] wouldn't play the game if it wasn't for the strategic map
The MP version will allow much more interesting diplomacy, as you are making your pacts with real people.

If you are interested, see my sig for details.

Edited for attrocious spelling.

[Duke John]

I agree with Blodrast.
The MTW MP atmosphere is IMO a bit unusual for me. I'm used to the civil and usefull posts here at the Org. Yet when I'm in the foyer waiting for a game my online time is spoiled by the spammers. When you get in a game, there is no teamtalk during selection. Although it might also be a bug since I've tried it several times but I never get a response.
So for me it's mostly a lonely adventure the battlefield. Once on the battlefield I always try to discuss some tactics beforehand which are answered 99% of the time by "Let's wait how they deploy". There is some truth in this of course, but we're attacking so we should dictate the game.
So I'll wait till the battle starts and then for any tactical teamtalk.... nope, they remain silent.

This is the ultimate game if you want to play "realistic" medieval battles. So I'm quite dissappointed with the amount of people who discuss the tactics.

I don't care wether people are "newbies", if they want to talk, learn and act mature they are always welcome in my games.

But I have not given up hope, I'm developing the Wars of the Roses mod and once done I hope to recreate historical battles with single-minded people.

[Ligur]

After 7 years of playing online games I share you this jewel of wisdom: Almost ANY online/multiplayer game is fun with your friends, without 90% are plain torture and engulf you in torrents of limitless idiocy. So don't even try the information highway alone if you're looking for fun and elevating experiences unless you have a lot of time to invest.

I've played Shogun with some friends a few times, it was fun though, in LAN as well. There are a few FPS servers ran by friends, where I have the possibility to kick and ban morons who disrupt the game so I might occasionally frag a few there.

Anything else is rarely worth the trouble... If only one out of 10 game sessions (I'm bunching everything here, Total War, FPS's, Civ3 PTW, Combat Mission, MMPORG or whatever) is actually fun and people co-operate, respect the spirit of the game and communicate in other ways then "ur faggott1" its not worth my busy schedual. I don't see how MTW is different in this respect, and I really don't know anyone who plays it these days.

*bitter*

[Blodrast]

Quote[/b] (Duke John @ July 06 2004,05:00)]I agree with Blodrast.
The MTW MP atmosphere is IMO a bit unusual for me. I'm used to the civil and usefull posts here at the Org. Yet when I'm in the foyer waiting for a game my online time is spoiled by the spammers. When you get in a game, there is no teamtalk during selection. Although it might also be a bug since I've tried it several times but I never get a response.
So for me it's mostly a lonely adventure the battlefield. Once on the battlefield I always try to discuss some tactics beforehand which are answered 99% of the time by "Let's wait how they deploy". There is some truth in this of course, but we're attacking so we should dictate the game.
So I'll wait till the battle starts and then for any tactical teamtalk.... nope, they remain silent.

This is the ultimate game if you want to play "realistic" medieval battles. So I'm quite dissappointed with the amount of people who discuss the tactics.

I don't care wether people are "newbies", if they want to talk, learn and act mature they are always welcome in my games.

But I have not given up hope, I'm developing the Wars of the Roses mod and once done I hope to recreate historical battles with single-minded people.
heh, if only it were a bug...bugs are fixable; people are more difficult to change.
no, i tried talking while waiting for the rest of the players to join, i tried talking during unit selection, tried talking during deployment and while marching towards them, but didn't get anything back other than a rare "gla" (good luck all) from a (probable) vet (who almost always was in the other team).

heck, i would gladly install and play any mod and have 1 good battle per login, than spend 2 hours in the lobby and play 4 or 5 games (none of which lasted longer than, i dunno, 10, 15 minutes ?) during which the only difference from SP is that there are some armies on my side which I can't control (much like in some of the historical battles).

Ligur, I agree with you that it must be a lot easier if you're playing with ppl you know. Been there, done that, lots of fun. But there always has to be a beginning somewhere. If you don't have friends close to you geographically speaking, then the only remaining possibility is online friends. Again, been there, done that, and it works wonderfully. But how do you _make_ friends when most ppl only seem to care about "fighting your direct adversary" ?
Also, what makes it even more difficult is the fact that some of the people who have friends have no interest in making new ones (and I don't blame them or anything; they just don't feel the need; makes perfect sense to me).

But, knowing that there are ppl out there who sympathize makes it a little better.
(Sheesh, I feel like a spinster crying to the media that she's been violated, and only once, and would the perpetrator please come out I hate whining.)
who knows, DukeJohn, or Ligur, maybe I'll see you online ;)

good luck all
Blodrast

[Nigel]

Blodrast, I perfectly understand your frustration at a "fight your man" answer that turns a 4v4 into 4 seperate 1v1s.

It has happened to me, but rarely I have to say. Is it a timezone thing ? I play workday evenings, GMT.


To help teamwork and communication I usually ask during deployment "Whats our plan ?". Often enough I get the "see how they deploy" answer. But at least some communication has been started. I usually ask again after deployment "attack left or right ?" or "shall we try and double blue?" or "I'll move close to you". Even if that info may not seem significant, it can get the communication started. You have spotted quite rightly, that those who do cooperate are usually superior.

I entered the MP community without knowing anyone and so far have not joined any clan. I made my friends on the forums mostly (go to the Jousting Field). More rarely on the foyer (usually from a battle that did work well).


Not all my battles are fun, but quite many are. It may be that I am just lucky with my timezone.

But if anyone is looking to arrange for a battle just PM me. Dont worry if you are newb. When I was newb, someone helped me, too. And I am glad to pass this on http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

That's my offer.
Nigel

[Blodrast]

hey, thanks a lot Nigel.
I'll take you up on that offer sometime, ya know.
And yeah, I guess I can pretty much be considered a newbie in MP. I do lack MP experience, but some of the time I did give people a good run for their money http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And I guess I'll keep trying to spark up some communication...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

With regards to the "fight your man", and lack of teamwork in bigger games, if you don't have a partner you know and trust more complicated maneuvers are hard to pull off...I've tried to set up doubling maneuvers with partners I didn't know and ended up charging in alone with my ally dawdling along, or having my ally charge to fast and getting routed just as I come up with him, routing me as well. So the "fight your man" strategy is the safe option. No excuse for not communicating at all however.

[Ar7]

I won't play MTW in MP, ever. I am satisfied playing CS and NWN online and won't even bother with MTW, besides i like it's historical part and the strategy map a lot more.

[Blodrast]

I agree, Sasaki, and I am also perfectly aware of this. Ideally, you would have some semi-constant partners, with which you have already established some ground rules, and short fast commands or directions would suffice for even more complex maneuvers.
I realize that this is hard to accomplish, and I remember having seen in this forum proposals towards CA of having some "drawing board" during MP on which to sketch quick suggestions of tactical deployment or such. It might work, I don't know.
Even when you do have constant partners, I also realize that most of the time you simply don't have any time in the midst of the battle to talk to them. Most decisions should be taken in advance, before the actual engagement. But that's not too bad, in my opinion, and it would make a lot of difference (such as doubling, or flanking, or a certain order of attacking and more precise timing with some specific purpose in mind, etc).
Sometimes, no communication is necessary, e.g. if I see my nearest ally is on the verge of being flanked and I can dispatch some counter, I will do that w/out him needing to ask for it.

But, and here we come to possibly one significant reason why people play the way they play, I believe that quite a few people are more concerned with winning their personal battle, rather than possibly sacrificing their own troops altogether for "the greater good" of their side.
I personally prefer a lost game during with lots of weird/crazy/interesting tactics in it, even one where my troops have been slaughtered like (non-flaming) pigs, to a game where I've got the most valour (regardless which side won). Heck, if it was an honourable fight your side has put up, I'm sure you won't even feel like losing

[Dimeola]

I learned a couple things early on. Firstly, you dont ever quit....ever. You fight til its over. You rally when they break, reform, and fight on. Have actually won a few after breaking twice and rallying. Secondly, take care of your allies. If they die then you are all alone facing an enemy who has tasted blood. If you win your battle and lose the war, you have still lost.
Dimeoias

[hoom]

Ohh, I like the idea of a drawing board as a prime communication tool http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya multiu... Vanya multi quite often... Though not as often as Vanya used to.

Vanya keeps getting ransacked by the neighborhood MILF posse...

And the nearby Catholic girls school keeps sending their classes over on "field trips" to Vanya's back yard... for some reason they think Vanya's weed-ridden yard is a place of great beauty and tranquility (must be all them dandelions). And naturally, they all want to play with Vanya So, that takes away from Vanya's head harvesting adventures.

And, of course, Vanya cannot forget His new internet venture. Soon, Vanya will launch a new web site where mortal pigdogs can easily give up their worldly possessions as a means to barter for the much coveted Vanya Usurped Indulgences. These are like regular, vanilla Papal indulgences, but better They come complete with a free vestal lottery ticket and an evening at Vanya's luxurious spa in the desert, the Executioner's Chopping Block.

So, as youz can see, when Vanya is not busy being chased by posses of drooling MILFs or repressed catholic skool girls and their nun overlords, He's out saving the world from itself. And in between all that, Vanya still manages to go out once in a while to cut heads off.

So, there is no excuse. Get out and cut heads off Heck, seems the peeps in da Middle East have hopped on the noggin separation bandwagon with a vengeance Vanya sez... don't get left behind

(This message has been sponsored in part by Vanya's "No head left behind" program.)

GAH

[King Edward]

Ha ha ha I love all your posts Vanya, even if half the time i havent got a clue what your on about

With regards to playing MP your best bet is to get in there and play as many games as possible. You will meet some good people to play with and you will meet some um... not so good people to play with (Been working on my deplomacy skills) you will find people who suit your attitude and playing styles.

You can always ignore the people you want to keep out your way

[Blodrast]

Thank you, Vanya, your posts are uplifting as usual http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
The sense of humor may well be one's best feature; of course I'm not talking about you, Vanya, I know you're 100% serious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[octavian]

my my Vanyaw, you must be fweeling sick today, youz forgot to say "vanya sez" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif