View Full Version : Gendarmes and Knights Templa
Hey dudes.
Just wondering, has anyone actually found a use for these?
Heavy cavalry without lances seem to be a bit redundant, as they lack the massive charge bonus and shock effect of the more traditional heavy cavalry...
The only solely sword-armed cavalry I have ever found a use for are the Ottoman Sipahi and Saharan cavalry, and only then because they're so fast. Gendarmes and Templars, however, are as slow as ever and seem to have no real use. Templars are also difficult to get hold of and you rarely get a full sized unit once the Crusade is over and done with. This seems to make English and French Crusades weaker than their southern counterparts, due to the lack of crusader shock cavalry. The only cavalry you get is the dribs and drabs that join the crusade en route, or the ones you drop in yourself - which puts an additional strain on your military resources.
I have considered going into the unit details file and giving them a slightly higher melee bonus or something, to account for the fact that they have swords as opposed to lances... but historically, lance armed cavalry discarded their lances after the charge and fought with swords - making them equally effective in melee as they were on the charge. Templars, however, only have swords.
I really want to find a good solution to this, as I like the background and history of the Templars, and would love to be able to use them effectively on the field of battle...
Any ideas...?
-Sarn
Armchair Athlete
07-05-2004, 01:48
yeah Templars suck, and the only use I have found for Gendarmes is that they can flank better than impetuous knights who sometimes go crazy and charge the nearest enemy. Better than mounted sergeants, however I would still rather have Spanish Jinettes for flanking any day.
Well, I threw history out of the window - I wanted my Templars http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif
I notched their melee stat up from 5 to six, and gave their shield a 0.6 modifier as opposed to 0.5 (It uhh... looked 1.1 times bigger than the rest http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif )
I playtested the new Templars against a unit of Chivalric knights, and found that they lost if they took a charge head on, but if they spread into a 3 rank formation and evaded the brunt of the charge, they won, but only just. They took heavy casualties in the initial charge, but slowly made it back as the melee continued. I deemed this fair.
The Gendarmes... I did the same. I notched their melee up by 1 and they've done pretty well. They can't match full Knights, but as flankers and harassing troops they did well, and they seem to be able to function as the poor-mans Chivalric Knights. They get trounced by anything approaching decent in the spear, polearm, or heavy cavalry classes, though. Thats to be expected - don't sit on a horse if you want to beat a spearman.
I'm pretty pleased with the result, as they're balanced, no longer weak, pathetic units you should leave at home.
The Gendarmes relatively low upkeep cost also makes them handy for your defensive armies, that consist of cheaper units that hold onto frontier provinces while your better equipped armies go on their glorious conquests. A unit of pseudo-knights would be useful to help deal with any situation.
KillerKadugen
07-05-2004, 18:15
Maybe they are more effective as a mobile blocker unit. If you don't have any reserve spears, these guys might be effective at plugging holes. A more defensive cavalry unit, like heavy cavalry in STW.
I don't agree with this stuff about swords. it's just a fricking animation ppl. I still like my templars even if they have 2 less charge.
what do you want from gendarmes? they are meant to be medium cav. they aren't supposed to be hardcore killers but simply for capable defenders.
they are equal to katanks with 4 less charge and .5 more armor.
Lt Nevermind
07-05-2004, 19:55
And more speed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Templars have no use, especially in the desert places. But they are more of a style thing...
I wouldn't mass produce Gendarmes but a few are somewhat handy as tanks.
their build reqs are also difficult to justify. they are like pumped up lith cav with similarly crazy reqs.
Lt Nevermind
07-05-2004, 20:20
Stats/build req wise Gendarmes $uck, no doubt about that. But having them from a County Milita kinda indicates they belong to the 'peasant' units, so what can you really expect from them?
I don't expect a lot from my Gendarmes - I still see them as cheaper, less effective heavy cavalry. They act like it now, as opposed to peasants on horses, wearing tin can helmets.
As for the Templars, I see no use for them without the slight upgrade. Slow heavy cavalry that also lack the punch of their peers. It also justifies their build req - I don't mind needing all those buildings for a unit that will actually have a use.
Quote[/b] ]Well, I threw history out of the window
It is much more historically correct for Templars to be better, they were the most feared knights in Europe (until they gave up on crusading and started embezzling donations from the pope http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )
The only reason I can think of for Templars having no lance is to amke them different from the other slightly generic knightly orders.
I wouldn't say lacking punch. 11 combined charge and attack is still more than enough to crumble most enemy lines, especially from the rear.
they can also dismount into CFKs which can maul just about any unit around man for man.
they also have cheapo support of 50 florins. don't be to demanding.
BTW, you made them buildable?
Quote[/b] (katank @ July 05 2004,12:37)]I don't agree with this stuff about swords. it's just a fricking animation ppl. I still like my templars even if they have 2 less charge.
what do you want from gendarmes? they are meant to be medium cav. they aren't supposed to be hardcore killers but simply for capable defenders.
they are equal to katanks with 4 less charge and .5 more armor.
^ What he said ^
Go online and see how many people are using Temps in their English army - a lot Reduced charge for 75 less florins.
Gendarmes can be quite deadly when jacked up (like Valor 3 or 4).
When used for their appropriate roles, these units are OK.
ichi
hello people, i made the templars into souped up CK's for something like 75 more in return for 2 more attack. This makes up for their supposed formidable killing power. I like gendarmes in MP like what ichi said http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
It seems like those two are a little MP oriented. Cheaper base price and cheaper upgrades make up for other things.
In SP, I rarely get Templar and because I can't retrain them, I don't often use them in combat, except in the initial crusade (if not in the dessert).
Gendarmes, on the other hand, quite useful as flanker. The most important is their AP weapon. They can kill heavy knight pretty well. Also, they are not impetuous like knights, disengage them is a lot easier.
Quote[/b] (katank @ July 06 2004,12:32)]BTW, you made them buildable?
No. I kept them as Crusading units, though historically they should be buildable all across central-Western Europe.
pdoan8: Gendarmes have an AP weapon? I thought they were just armed with swords.
Quote[/b] (Sarnaen @ July 06 2004,19:14)]pdoan8: Gendarmes have an AP weapon? I thought they were just armed with swords.
Yes. They do. and I was as surprise as you are when I first found out.
Both crusaders_ubit_prod11 file and this site (http://shogun.cafe24.com/medieval/) say the same thing.
IrishMike
07-07-2004, 01:24
Many times in MP I have been on the recieving end of a templar charge and I will tell you, I have seen them break through many lines that they shouldn't have reguardless of a lessen charge.
In the matter of Gendarmes I haven't used them much so I can't say.
Well that's a turnout for the books.
Gendarmes got a whole lot unhealthier for everyone...
My god, I may have created a monster, that added melee will mean they eat through heavy cavalry...
I'll have to playtest these further to see what I can do about it.
Armchair Athlete
07-07-2004, 02:44
Quote[/b] (katank @ July 06 2004,12:32)]I wouldn't say lacking punch. 11 combined charge and attack is still more than enough to crumble most enemy lines, especially from the rear.
they can also dismount into CFKs which can maul just about any unit around man for man.
they also have cheapo support of 50 florins. don't be to demanding.
BTW, you made them buildable?
Umm Templars have only 4 charge value and 5 attack according to the crusaders_unit_produce, giving a total of 9 attack on charge. Less than a charging mounted sergeant (charge 8, attack 2)
nope. they are 6 charge, 5 attack. what version are you playing?
what?? check Yas and the unit prods. gendarmes don't have AP ability. are you sure you aren't confusing them with gothic knights?
Thats what I thought when I read that, I didn't have time to check though. Gendarmes with armour piercing.. swords? At 350 something florins? That would be horribly overpowered.
I just checked. In 2.01, they do not have armour piercing weapons. Breathe a sigh of relief.
Were the stats changed in v2.01? Or this site (http://shogun.cafe24.com/medieval/) has the wrong info?
http://www.pdoan8.com/Gendmes.JPG
Is that the same place you get your info? It shows as v2.00
I checked the my VI v2.01 again and it's true that Gendarmes don't have AP weapon. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Anyway, I am currently playing as the Aragonese. With Cathedral and silver weapon upgrade in Aragon, Gendarmes trained from there are just as good as vanilla Templars and they still beat CMAA with ease. A cheaper alternative to CK (and Lancer). The draw back is that they are Late unit and by then, I already had more than enough CK. However, they are still good as garrison force and can be shipped to the front to relief the CK.
KillerKadugen
07-08-2004, 04:37
Because they come from a militia building, the website probably thought that they would be AP as a result. I rember fighting a custom battle against a few of the Gendarmes, and let me tell you, they did NOT fare well against my Gothic Knights, who are some heavily armored dudes. Does anyone know what Gendarmes translates into? I believe they are some sort of policing force, which could equate to their lesser statistics.
Maeda Toshiie
07-08-2004, 04:57
Does anyone know what Gendarmes translates into? I believe they are some sort of policing force, which could equate to their lesser statistics.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Gendarmes
Old French word: mounted soldiers, men-at-arms. Presently it means a member of the French police force.
Darth Binky
07-08-2004, 05:23
Yeah they still have Gendarmeries in parts of Germany and Austria. They're basically just police.
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