possible bug with spies ?

[Blodrast]

i've built the spy buildings in Anjou. However, all the spies I'm producing have only 1 (one) star. No, they haven't been destroyed, there was no earthquake/flood/whatever.
Everything's fine, and I never once got a 2-star or a 3-star spy out of that province (and I built dozens).
This is VI 2.01.

I have to recheck this, but I'm pretty sure it's accurate:
the assassins built in that province were getting the stars
i.e. I was building assassins with 2 or 3 stars, even though I only had 1st level assassin building
and yeah, i checked and double checked, I didn't mistakenly build the assassin buildings instead of the spy ones ;)

[katank]

heroes? maybe you were thinking of Syria whcih give +2 to all assasins?

[Blodrast]

eh ? whaddya mean ?
No, regular spies, not heroes. There are 3 buildings that you can build to get improved spies, right (the tavern tree) ?
And you should get 2-star or 3-star spies out of them, just as you do assassins, right ?
i.e., after building tavern, and tavern2, I should get 1-star spies. Tavern3 should give me 2-star spies, and Tavern4 3-star spies.

[katank]

nope

assasins use tavern line from keep level to fortress v0-3

spies use brothel line
from castle level to fortress v0-2

2 max for spies

no valor bonus for them anywhere whereas assasins get valor bonus in Syria and with fortress, you can get 5* right away.

I think CA wanted to nerf spies

they were a bit too strong in MTW1.1 were the rebellions were huge so you could destroy a faction by spy rushing them.

[Blodrast]

ok, sorry, my mistake. i always confused the tavern line with the brothel line, but no matter. I was still supposed to get 2-star spies and didn't.
I'm pretty sure they didn't mean to do this, since they changed the formula for rebellions (I agree they were too powerful, but now they're potentially useless for spurring rebellions).

thanks, katank

[katank]

no problem. I don't like the fact that spies are now almost strictly defensive either.

now I just use them to garrison.

saves moola over garrison troops. slam half a dozen spies in an even places like portugal and scotland is willing to take highest taxes with 200 loyalty while only needing a lone peasant. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Blodrast]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 06 2004,14:55)]no problem. I don't like the fact that spies are now almost strictly defensive either.

now I just use them to garrison.

saves moola over garrison troops. slam half a dozen spies in an even places like portugal and scotland is willing to take highest taxes with 200 loyalty while only needing a lone peasant. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
whoa, hold on a sec here.
afaik, the "new" formula for spies (i.e., in VI) is that they decrease loyalty by 40% + valour * 20%. However, and this is the main catch, _only the best spy is taken into account_.
So it makes no difference if you have 1 or a dozen spies in one spot, only the best one will be taken into account.
At least, for decreasing loyalty in enemy provinces.

Does it work differently for sustaining loyalty in your own provs ?

[katank]

I think it's different in your own province but it's not reflected in a single turn.

I still find 6 spies to be adequate for Portugal which is nice

I only keep units of 100 men around just to satisfy the quota for no bandits.