Starting in early - how late can you play?

[Tozama]

I have owned MTW since it was released. Like most, I played it to death when I first got it (so much better than STW IMHO). Shelved it for a while then started playing again.
I always played early era campaigns. As I got better at playing my games ended in victory sooner and sooner. Even my first campaign ended pre-gothic.
It occurred to me last night as I was poised to finish off the only remaining areas I had yet to conquer (the Mid-East and Asia-Minor) - me playing the English, that I never have seen a gothic unit in this game because I always finish the game too quickly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Its 1308 and my English armies have conquered all of western Europe into Constantinople, north Africa just into Egypt as well as all the islands in the Mediterranean, and all of the north and steppes just into Khazar and Kiev.
The Horde reappeared and sits in Crimea afraid to venture out to face my 9 star generals in Kiev and Khazar and the Turks sit in Georgia with the same fear. The Egyptians are just east of Constantinople sitting in fear as well against my mighty 9 star general and border army there and the same face-off is in Egypt opposite another Egyptian army - just sitting. I left the Pope with Rome and Papal States only after capturing them briefly and burning all his improvements to the ground. He's mad but subdued. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/barrel.gif


For fun and curiosity I have halted my advance. I am raking in florins at a furious pace and am replacing my older units with better chivalric era troops and just sitting on the borders of my empire with 8-9 star generals on each choke-point/front. I am building up my high level improvements in my better off provinces.
I will replace all my armies feudal and chivalric units with their gothic upgrades when they come online.

Question: How late (what year) can I play MTW? Is there a year limit? Could I drag this out till the year 2000 if I wanted? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[KillerKadugen]

I don't think the English can get gothic troops-only the HRE and Italy. To answer when the game ends, I believe it is 1452 or 1453, which corresponds to the fall of Constantinople to the Turks.

[Spartiate]

Somebody made a fix where the game doesn't end in 1453 but keeps going.You can find it in the down-loads section,but other than that it ends in 1453.
If you are finding things too easy then play on the expert setting or try one of the excellent Mods like MedMod or Napoleonic TW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Tozama]

Quote[/b] (KillerKadugen @ July 07 2004,11:12)]I don't think the English can get gothic troops-only the HRE and Italy.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I guess I didn't really check into that.
I am playing on expert. I'll try some of the mods soon.

Thanks.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I've gotten into the late era from early twice...

I have ADDDTF (ADD due to Factions) - I can't finish becasue I get bored with the faction I'm playing and switch to a different one. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

But now I'm playing HTW... with more factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

Seriously though, HTW is great. Go try it. Now. Or Else. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[katank]

that's impressive. you guys made it that far from early?

I usually have difficulty restraining my expansionist zeal and even in peaceful GA games I rarely make it to High before total domination occurs.

[Tozama]

Yea same here. I took it unusually slow this game curious to see what higher end units I never had before would do.
Cannons? I never used one before. I have foundries building right now.
Most campaigns on expert I play finish before 1250. Few exceptions.
I've won as Spanish and as Byz before 1200 before although I played rather risky rebellion-wise with small garrisons toward the end as I advanced just to finish the game up.

[Inuyasha12]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (KillerKadugen @ July 07 2004,11:12)
I don't think the English can get gothic troops-only the HRE and Italy.



I guess I didn't really check into that.
I am playing on expert. I'll try some of the mods soon.

Thanks.


Just mod the units_prod file so you can build them http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Antimatter]

I usually try to play a more peacful style. I usually start out with a quick territory grab from whoever has the territory I want, then I settle down into a trade a build routine. That usually lasts until the AI just attacks me out of nowhere. At this point I normally have far superior armies both numbers and quality wise since I've just been building for so many years, not to mention the resource reserves to keep going without actually making any money and then I can just overpower everyone so I go on my conquest. The game normally ends by the early 1300's.

For instance in my currect Turks game I quickly took Egypt, the Almohads, Spain, the Aroganese, and the Byzantines through Constantinople. That's actually much more aggressive then usual, but it was just the way it worked out best this time. After I grabbed Constantinople I just stopped and started building ships and armies and upgrading the buildings. The next time I fought was when the Horde showed up and it wasn't against them. I actually allied with the Horde...I just didn't want them to take all the territory around me so I had to grab some of it and I managed to cut them off at Poland (I have a solid border with them now). By this time, though, I had over 1,000,000 florins, and even though my trade crumbled, because of the conquest, I now own most of Europe and my florins are up to about 2.5 million. And this is considering I have about 15,000 troops plus ships, and I haven't stopped building a building in every province I own since the very beginning, plus I produce new troops almost every turn. I can't make my florins go away ;). But back to the point, it's about 1280 in the game now and it's almost over. Just the Italians and Mongols left, so this will probably be another that ends in the early 1300's...

[katank]

@ inuy, it may seem fun but it destroys the faction flavor for me. once you make those nonunique, you have to make other things non unique fr balance and the next thing you know, every faction has the same unit roster.

@ antimatter, I usually play the same way but my trade phase lasts very little time and ends in early 1200 at the latest for me.

[Neubs]

Sometimes I set secure borders and play the whole game through. I get the best units and breed the best kings I can. Then I kind of play international police whenever a powerful faction attacks a weaker one. I also make some really nice crusades and take the rich trading lands from the infadels.

For a challenge you could play Germany and abandon all your provinces and move to Switzerland. I had many epic battles where I beat huge armies with a few SAPs and serpentines.

[Spartiate]

One way i like to play is to take say Italy and set up a vast trading fleet and upgrade all my military buildings.At each stage when new units become available i gradually replace the older units on my roster.I then take Constantinople, Egypt and Antioch with large well rounded invasion forces,but only when they fall to rebels or even if say Constantinople belongs to a resurgent Hungarian side which is no threat to my position.I then do the same with Flanders.In this way i can take all the big earning provinces in the game with-out making enemies and keep the cash coming in.

[katank]

that's an interesting way to play although you have many many borders that way.

[Spartiate]

I know.But then we all have this game at least 2 years and out-side of the mods we all like to challenge our-selves.I read of one guy who limits himself to always obeying the pope no matter what while his fleet were getting wiped out by the Italians.He couldnt attack back because he would be excommed.

[katank]

this is when your Syria assasins should slice all the Italian royals or your grand inquisitors go on a revival tour. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Spartiate]

LOL @ revival tour.

[Oleander Ardens]

I played a Sicily game lately the same way Spartiate..

About getting from early into late http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

You know how things happen, the comp attacks you and your are forced to revenge yourself and suddendly all the map is yours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

OA

[Sarnaen]

I get bored of mass expansion games, they always make me miss out on the diversity of the later periods of the game.
This is why I try to play realistically, acting in the way the ruler at the time would act.
A magnificent builder monarch would most likely sit in his capital and become defensive, whereas a great warrior king would be found at the forefront of the latest campaign.
A strange King could be doing anything from banning spears in the nation to leading a Crusade against some obscure province.
Makes for an amusing game.
I remember once I decided I had a short tempered King that executed his generals for failure on the field...

[katank]

that's interesting in roleplaying. never managed it too well myself

My kings usually end up having killer instinct and I think that this means rampant expansion.

even if I sit still, often one idiot faction would attack and the retribution is swift and complete.

as your faction snowballs in size, the factions will attack you at random and next thing I know, I own the map.

I wanted to go from early to late but often barely makes it to high without killing every faction.

[z|co]

I often find in my games in the past that when i play with one faction and reach a certian stage, from there on its just the same as other factions. Take Byzantine, Turkish and Eygptians. If i'm one I conquer the other 2, take all there lands and its the same again, you own near enough the same provinces, about the same size army, just a variation in troops. Same again with England and France, but its too similar.

So i've started making rules for myself, depending on the faction i am. Example, England.
-Abandon all french provinces and retreat back to England
-You can only conquer Wales, Scotland and Ireland, no where else, except through crusades (And these can only be directed at muslim held provinces, so no crusading constantinople unless a muslim faction has it.)
-If say France attacks you, you can defend and go into French provinces, but not to stay or garrison just pillage and go back to England.

This makes the game alot more interesting for me personally anyway. I find my games last a lot longer now.

[Chimpyang]

I had to struggle to make it to the end as the turks in expert, i had a vein of provinces stretching to Ile de France, in around 1430 The french and germans decide to reappear just nearto my provinces, the relbs legged it and soon i had to beat off massive armies from enemies all over the place. I managhed to shake off a civil war but managed to just cling onto enough provinces and GA points to pip the spanish into second place. if the game lasted for 30 more years i would have totally collapsed under all the pressure, all i had left was my originl provinces plus scattered salients like ile de france, switzerland and bulgaria which were all rushing cheap troops out.

[katank]

z|co, I find it nice in that from then on, your tactics could be the similar and things like Byz displacing the Turks and then ransoming the Eggy king from Antioch like the Turks would is interesting.

[Lt Nevermind]

I've played the whole campaign twice (Polish and Italian) from scratch to 1453 (GA, BTW), man did those take time. I was trying to hold back and let other factions evolve instead of crushing them one by one like in domination mode. Even so I ended up with about 30 provinces in both campaigns (Poland was like USSR after WWII and Italy had single colonies just about everywhere). Domination camps do tend to end before entering the late period, average around 1250 perhaps. A bit sad though but there's little point in slowing down if you're able to advance.

[katank]

yep. colonization is interesting and a way of making sure you don't overexpand.

single colonies force huge number of border provinces and hence a great deal of your troops being tied down for defense and less rampant conquest.

[Lt Nevermind]

Thats true, they took about a stack of units each and did cost a lot of money to support. The pro is however that having only single colonies you leave ample of ports to others you can trade with which on the other hand returns even more than the support cost. And colonies greatly reduce support costs of ships also http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Blodrast]

precisely because my games tend to end a long before late, I decided not to start from early anymore. High or Late games might make it more challenging, because you have less time, and because things tend to be a bit more interesting (see starting positions in High for French, for instance, where they hold their own lands but also Tripoli and Antioch).
That not only adds to the challenge, but also gives you access to more units from the start; it's definitely more fun for me to play the game with something more than, say FS and FMAA and archers.
Besides, starting in Late you may really be hard pressed for time (depending on your game style).
Starting in High makes it very interesting for Russians, Byz, Turks, and Eggy (to some extent) because you'll be facing the unleashed might (yeah, right http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif) of the Golden Horde, and you haven't had enough time to be a significant adversary to them (as you would have had, had you started in Early).

Each of these adds their bit of spice to the game, which is a good thing IMO.

[Spartiate]

I really enjoy my slow expansion games.I become bored too easily if i'm running away with the prize and everybody else is left struggling to catch up.
I like to attack say the French and ONLY the French.If the Germans attack me in the flanks i defend,make peace and then continue on against the French.Then i turn towards the Germans or the Spanish.In this way i feel the the Ai notices you as a threat and starts to actively oppose you e.g no more alliances,attacks your ships to limit trade,etc