Arab Infantry

[WorkNeglecter]

Another question for my first post-VI Almohad campaign. I have been using Arab infantry for the novelty. I've been getting a smattering of 5-star generals from them, too. I guess the comparison is with Ghazis. Ghazis have better morale, charge and are a bit cheaper to maintain. But they have one defect: they take 2 kills to level up in valour, and since they die like flies in battle they never valour up. I've seen my arab infantry, on the other hand, valour up quite nicely against UM, nubian spearmen and even bedouin camel warriors. They even seem to hold their own against saharan cavalry, which Ghazis don't.

I recall reading that there was no point in using them.

Do they get the desert-fatigue bonus?

[ah_dut]

all units do don't they. and i think Arab inf suck big time. they don't have ghazi axes so aren't as useful on the flanking action http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[katank]

swords are made for flanking, not slugging and the 6 charge 5 AP attack of ghazis as well as superior speed of ghazis cannot be ignored.

Arab inf don't suit my style either.

[jadast]

WorkNeglecter, I use them for the reason you gave. They last longer than Ghazis. Once the valor increases they are a nice cheap alternative. I can put up with the slower movement. Defensive battles is their biggest advantage over Ghazis. They break my defensive line by charging off on their own.

[Medieval Assassin]

I had a campain with the elmos just last week, Arab infantry, well, I think they suck. They die easy, I'd rather use AUM ANYDAY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasarno.gif

[IrishMike]

I have only found that Arab Infantry are good in mass numbers. I stack my armies with them and then use them to attack right off the bat to shake up the computers troops. They usually inflict just enough casualties to make the computer think twice then they rout and the real army comes in and does the killing.

[katank]

yeah, but use like slav warriors instead or woodsmen if you like cost efficiency.

I rather pass on arab inf.

turks have their hybrids, eggy have abyss later, and the almos have their AUMs

all of these are better bets as is ghazis, esp. the silver armored variety from Const.

[Doug-Thompson]

What do Arab infantry have that AUM don't? And there's a valor bonus for AUM in Grenada.

If you want something that lives longer than Ghazis that's not an AUM, use Muwahids. Use them just like melee infantry -- set to "engage" at will, for instance. They have an excellent charge, survive much better than Ghazis under arrow fire, and stand up a whole lot better to cavalry than either Ghazis or Arab infantry. Support them with Murabitin javelins and you have a first-rate knight-killing combo that's just as fast as Ghazis.

[solypsist]

I use Arab Infantry sometimes because I have to. When in need, they do the job much better than, say, peasants.

[katank]

doug, what if you are eggy and can't access AUMs?

I still prefer ghazis as they rock due to the attack power.

[Magraev]

They should be a good unit, but their low defence lets them down.

I've modded them to have a 1 in defence and they've actually become a very serious problem in the desert for my english armies. Remember they have a 4 i offence (i believe). They can cause very serious casualties now without going to pieces.

AUM isn't an alternative in the desert - they tire too fast.

I find abyssinians to be worthless too. No armor and shield and a hideous upkeep makes for a poor unit. It's best in the desert, where there is really no need for an axe since armored units lose anyway.

[katank]

I never get the point of arab inf or abyss guards when you have the ever reliable ghazis that does the job better.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 08 2004,23:24)]doug, what if you are eggy and can't access AUMs?
Silver-armored Ghazi's from Constantinople, of course. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Seriously, you've pointed out many times about how great silver-armored Ghazi's are. One reason is because those units are much less vulnerable to arrows than regular Ghazis..

If I was attacked by low-armored Ghazis and my unit didn't rout, I'd pour ever arrow I could into them, even if it meant taking losses from friendly fire.

==========

My "model" Egyptian army has a core of three high-morale Saracen infantry backed by Nizari. ( i've been known to declare Jihads just to get enough Nizari.) I'll have a couple of Muwahids or Ghazi's, depending on the situation. If I have Muwahids, I'll have some Slav javs from Bulgaria. If Ghazis, I'll skip the javelins and just add more Ghazi and Nizari. The Ghazis have either won or lost by the time the javs line up and throw.

Cavalry-wise, I'll have bonused Mameluke HA from the Sinai and bonused Mameluke Cavalry from Egypt, possibly a few high-valor camels too.

[RollingWave]

Well abyssian survive better same armor wise :/..... they are A LOT better than ghazi in a head on fight...... but that's like saying murabin soliders are a lot better in a strait up fight vs a cavalry than a peasent.... they both still suck at it XD.....

Truth is I agree... unless ur fighting a defensive fight in the woods there is no real situation where abyssian would be better than ghazi... espically consider that they are a high age unit.... though I guess they still do survive vs missiles slightly better than ghazi.... and being disciplined make them more reliable (combine with the 4 defualt moral they won't rout much either)

[katank]

they are not more reliable. ghazis have 8 morale they will almost never run whereas abyss often pack it.

you mentioned tree fighting. ghazis do have the nasty habit of charging out into unfavorable terrain and attack enemies frontally.

knights look like a disciplined pack of wimps when compared to the impetuousity of the ghazis.

I love using saracens to pin and then moving say two ghazis on each flanks and also stream in 3-4 units of AHC from the rear.

the effect is beautiful. a sublime melting of the enemy lines.

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Abyssians

The maintenance cost is just absurd for what you get; almost three florins per man.

You can hire and keep mercenary vikings for far less than that and have a better unit. The only time I use Abyssians are in Jihads, where I don't have to pay those kind of costs.

[RollingWave]

Quote[/b] ]I love using saracens to pin and then moving say two ghazis on each flanks and also stream in 3-4 units of AHC from the rear.

the effect is beautiful. a sublime melting of the enemy lines.

Or you could achieve the same effective using a slightly less complicated method of using 6 pack of JHI and just click on the enemy line at the start of the fight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif u'll usually see the beautiful melting of enemy line too hehe...

Well Abyssian are disiplined which mean they also suffer much less moral penalty from things like ur general accidently bitting the dust and pretty much just anything else in general...which kinda offset the moral difference not to meantion in the same fighting situation ghazis will always be taking more casualties so they need the higher moral anyway...... and their 6 moral is significantly higher than average anyway....

And by reliable i was more talking about not charging out head on into a pack of charging chivalric knights... u'll see the beautiful sight of ur ghazi melting into the ground fast... sure they won't rout... they be dead in 3 seconds before there's anythign left to rout to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

btw silver armor ghazi still have less defense than vinilla abyssian.....

I guess abyssian are basically vikings with a bigger axe and without the shields..... (too bad that the shield is a huge bonus and vikings have insanely low building req and have a valor bonus province -_-)

[katank]

silver ghazis do have less defense but far more attack and charge so kill http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I never let my ghazis slug it on, they are always flanking or rear attacking.

they also get to chase routers sometimes.