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Buccaneer
12-29-2000, 00:27
Slow week at work, been bouncing around posting to several of my regular game forums, so might as well do something here since this is the game I've been absorbed with for the past week and a half.

In my 12+ years of playing strategy/war games continuously, I've come to the opinion that replayability is the most important thing in such games, imo. I asked that question in my first post and got some answers I didn't think about. For Shogun, it would be great if they are able to have the 'create new/random strategy map' option but they don't know if that will be included in the Exp Pack. What was the basis for Creative Assembly having a single, static strategy map? I know it may be historical, but they must have realized that many/some(?) wouldn't want to go through the long effort of conquering the same, exact 60 provinces again?

Perhaps the main reason why I wasn't interested in Shogun when it came out is that I thought it was AoK in samurai mods. I hate AoK and those types of RTS games, but I was convinced that Shogun was not like that. This game actually plays a lot like Civ2 which is my favorite game of all time. It is interesting to see folks see here coming from RTS or TBS or wargames backgrounds. It is a testament of a well designed, historical-based game.

I know the strength (and popularity) of Shogun is the battles. While I haven't fought very large battles yet, I found that the unit controls are fairly easy and not a chaotic click-fest. One thing I don't understand ... what's the purpose of the Formations? I mean, why would I ever want to use them? I have fought 12 battles thus far and won 11 of them. They don't have formations anywhere close to what I want, so why are they there? For example, I'm sitting at the end of a valley on high ground and I know that the enemy will approach me. I set my yari cavalry unit(s) on either sides of the valley on high ground, I keep my swords at front center (or thereabouts) with a unit or two of archers behind them. I then angle off cav archers on an oblique. Sometimes I would extend my yari cavs further out to approach from behind. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I place each of my units to ensure tactical success (offense or defense). Why would I keep them bunched up as the Formations require?

Steve Clark

BanzaiZAP
12-29-2000, 00:56
I don't think too many players use the formations regularly. There was a thread, if you'd like to search. Mostly, they're good for moving the whole army. If you are attacking, and your enemy has fortified way on the far side of the field, you can keep troops organized in long distance movement. Choose the appropriate formation, select the whole army, and Alt-Click to the far side. They'll all move together, keeping your units orderly. I think there are actually morale and combat modifiers for disorganized troops!

As for using the same maps, part of the way they have terrain et all affect combat, is the combination of the map files, and the "height" files. I don't know how easy it would be for the system to generate both files, and still be smart enough to watch out for gaming paradoxes, like rivers with no bridge, impossibly steep valleys, that sort of thing. I know they plan on having a map editor, but I don't know how sophisticated and auto-generator would be. Maybe a programmer will answer that one. (Or even be working on one now!)

-- B)

[This message has been edited by BanzaiZAP (edited 12-28-2000).]

johnmcd
12-29-2000, 01:13
heheh. When I saw the 'I post on other forums' and the 'Civ II is my all time favourite' I wondered if you ever stopped by Apolyton, and now I see you are Steve Clark from that very place!

Buccaneer
12-29-2000, 01:38
johnmcd: Good to see you here! Would you agree that Shogun's gameplay is somewhat similar to Civ2?

banzai: Thanks, I will search for that thread. The one thing about moving units together in a formation is that you likely have to go up a valley. If I know that the enemy is camped on a far hill, I will send all of the my units in single file (more or less) along the ridge and then approach them from the side.

johnmcd
12-29-2000, 03:36
I think about the similarities between the two often and wonder about Civ III and tactical battles...But more importantly I think in Shogun I see a lot of the things I'd like to see in Civ III, like management by province, not city, taskforces, generalship etc. What similarities were you thinking of?

Is your name here taken from (I think it was you) your pirate fetish made flesh by Sea Dogs phase?

Buccaneer
12-29-2000, 03:54
Yes (in part), johnmcd, how did you know??? I don't recall posting much about SD at Apolyton, unless... you followed me to the SD forum?? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif I was a long time regular at the Cutthroats forum (even though I didn't play it) and then SD, and Buccaneer is the handle I use at FOFCentral.

Regarding similarities between Shogun and Civ2, I was thinking about those things you brought up, plus the overall gameplay mindset of the following...

Start off with limited territory/resources;

Build enough to establish a good foundation and to eliminate your immediate threat to security;

Concentrate on those resources that will build up (and hold on to) your power;

and then let loose with that power while continuing to get stronger.

That is exactly how I usually play Civ2, and now Shogun as well. And you may be right about some of the ideas for Civ3, I haven't thought through them yet.

john, please email me at sclark@csu.org, I got an invite for you to a special forum.

johnmcd
12-29-2000, 04:15
I think you posted a message on the 'Other Games' thing at Apolyton about how your dream was nearly with you about a month ago, as I recall nobody seemed to care and it went unreplyed to... Is it as good as you dreampt? I'm always up for pirates!

Ah, if you try that tactic on Shogun you will get a severe kick in at the higher difficulties, unless of course you take Hojo out of the equation by playing as them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif...a little thing we like to call the purple peril (I just made that up, you'll see it refered to as the Horde, but given the upcoming expansion I suggest we all switch to my taxonimy to avoid complication).

I expand desparetly, hopeing that I can build units faster than they are killed...