Charge leading units...

[RollingWave]

You know... there are just some of those fights where it seems that the enemy is too well dugged in to really try any skrimish/wide flanking tricks without getting horriblly owned (like a bridge battle... or a very big solidary hill etc..)... the only solution to those fights seem to be a big charge with all ur units and hope to beat them by qunality or quantity of ur units....

The question is what do you usually try to lead the charge with?? surely someone must do the hardest work and take the missile fire and/or their down hill charge....

What is ur standard ? do you try to lead with ur fastest units? ur highest defense unit? ur cheapest unit? ur highest moral unit??? or is it a specific unit type? such as spearman... or man at arms??

Would like to hear ur comments

[WorkNeglecter]

Quote[/b] (RollingWave @ July 09 2004,16:16)]You know... there are just some of those fights where it seems that the enemy is too well dugged in to really try any skrimish/wide flanking tricks without getting horriblly owned (like a bridge battle... or a very big solidary hill etc..)... the only solution to those fights seem to be a big charge with all ur units and hope to beat them by qunality or quantity of ur units....

The question is what do you usually try to lead the charge with?? surely someone must do the hardest work and take the missile fire and/or their down hill charge....

What is ur standard ? do you try to lead with ur fastest units? ur highest defense unit? ur cheapest unit? ur highest moral unit??? or is it a specific unit type? such as spearman... or man at arms??

Would like to hear ur comments
Halbs if they have no arbs.

I also find that a lone BG unit can convince them to give chase and break their formation.

[Colovion]

it really depends on what the enemy is strong in

if they have loads of Cav I usually creep up with spears and archers and pepper their lines and tease them with my units before they charge into a spear wall - so leading unit there would be any number of spears

I like using spearmen for taking arrows so usually I'll send a unit of spears to pressure their lines and draw fire as flankers come in

[katank]

I don't charge, I usually have 1-2 arty in my attacking armies for the express purpose of forcing them away from nice dug in positions with some rocks or cannonballs.

[econ21]

It depends on the army (and enemy). Ideally, I'd have something like huscarls - armoured and high attack. Biz infantry, AUM or halberdiers would be a fair substitute.

But usually I don't have good stuff like that in my early MTW armies. In those cases, I advance a spear wall and try to get missile superiority through lots of ranged troops. The AI will typically charge if faced with superior ranged fire, at which point the battle becomes a standard defensive one (hold with spears, flank with cav/swords).

Judging this can be tricky though - as the AI is charging downhill, you have less time for your missiles to work and they have a stronger charge. If they catch you strung out or on the move, you can be swept away. I've been overrun and routed a fair few times this way

[katank]

try to obtain level if possible before you engage.

I still recomend things like catapults which can outrange anything they have and force them off hills etc.

[Ludens]

Ludens' Hill Attack plan

Phase 1: Missile Duel. Your enemy may have height advantage, but often there isn't enough space to deploy in open formation, so they are vulnerable to missile troops. Your archers, however, can deploy in open formation. Archers are cheap and easy to replace, so I can afford to take losses. The point is that their missile cover should be weakened, even if I lose more archers than them in the process.

Phase 2: Approach. For this I prefer infantry with a large shield, and preferably armoured. The exact type depends on what I have available and whether the enemy has powerful cavalry. If they have, swordsmen go up front with spearmen on the flanks. If not, spearmen form the center and swordsmen the flanks. My cavalry will follow just behind the flanks. I do this because cavalry are vulnerable to missiles, especially when they are slowed down, for example when climbing a hill. When the first troops have reached the enemy, a drawn out melee will occur for which cavalry aren't suited either. So I choose slower troops which are more missile and melee resistant.

Phase 3: standard battle. Infantry to pin, cavalry to flank. Flanking is more difficult here and I usually get less good casualty rates than in normal battles, but often I can pull off 1:2 in my advantage. It depends a bit on how far I out-tech my opponent.


I try to avoid attacking bridges. If I have to, than my strategy will be whatever takes my fancy. I was quite good at bridge battles in STW, sometimes even managing 1:1 or casualties rates when I outnumbered them a little and had some cavalry available.

[katank]

in bridge or hill attack, I still believe in the power of catapults.

these boys have driven off the enemy many many times and saved many lives.

[Servius]

If arty was mobile it would be more useful. But if the nme retreats to a hill near the map edge you're screwed.

As far as direct assaults, I like Foot Knights, especially Hospitallers. If they're not available then I'd go for Chiv FKs or Halbs. High morale, attack, and armor is important, in that order I think.

[katank]

well, in that case, fake rout units to get them back into battery range.

also, targeting buildings etc. can artifically extend your arty's range.

I would advane peasants sometimes in loose just to soak up some missile fire and then to use missiles to shoot them up and then engage with heavy inf while cav goes around to the enemy flanks.

[lancer63]

When I attack I send inf. and archers centre, light/med cav. flanks.
Heavy inf (Varags, JHI, SAPs, etc.) line, centre just behind the other inf. to exploit or to rescue as the case arrives. Heavy cav. and commanders centre and back of army until it´s time to charge in or out. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-blush.gif

On bridge battles arty is most conveninent specially if it's on your own side. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and arbalesters can have a field day there since they have the longest range of foot misile units. I send some fodder over the bridge if the enemy is a bit shy and unwilling to dance. The fodder must hit the bravest, elite unit possible. (my weakest against their strongest) that way my fodder will route fast, the enemy sends their best to be slaughttered early when my troops are fresh and that saves us all a lot of time and foolish pursuing all over the map. Better a nice wet bloody and slippery bridge, or bridges, than a whole field speckled with dead men. that's messy and disorganized. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[gaijinalways]

Might depend on the level you're playing. I find the AI on expert doesn't let its better troops chase yours over the bridge. I had a recent tough bridge battle where I was attacking (with less troops) somewhere as the BYZ. I kept trying to get the AI to dance and my ALBs kept hitting whatever he had. Many xbowmen and Albs later, the AI was weakening as he was running out of missile types. Finally, I attacked with a mad rush and swept his archers and others away with some casulatiues as I was running uphill and had slow units (besides the cavs). Also I was watching the clock as I was worried time would run out before all his units would rout. Even after I killed the general, the AI hung on for several waves, always falling back and regrouping with reinforcements coming in. Lost maybe 350 to 487 for the AI, but I was happy to take the province

[katank]

I sometimes prefer Pyrrhic victories in these cases by moving in a low star gen with tons of missiles and siege and using a plug to prevent them from rushing my missiles across the bridge.

I essentially withdraw units when they run out of ammo and pound the hell out of them.

these battles usually run out by the timer and the next turn with best general and assault troops, the province would be easily won if not abandoned outright.

[RollingWave]

Well artilleries are a solution on some maps (espically flater more open once and bridge battles) but it tend to not work well against a high hill or if the map has a lot of trees.

I personally think that in general a spearman with shield is the best solution unless they have a ton of maa type of troops ... otherwise it works the best and those things are in general cheap and have reasonable moral which makes them the best overall.....

If you feel like a gambler and they don't have any instant kill units like jav/naptha etc... you could try the force and lead with ur Body guard units :P :P will minimize casualty to the max this way usually but it's ummm.... cheat :P

[katank]

yep, but if jedi power gets weakend, then you are screwed.

I like boom or bust solutions though and do abuse BG units sometimes at the start of a campaign.