Cantabrian Circle -

[barocca]

(worthy of it's own debate)

I know what a Cantabrian Circle is,

what i would love to know is

does this mean we will see horse archers firing while moving?

and does firing on the run apply to all or most horse archers?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
B.

[CBR]

Latest video does show one Parthian horsearcher who shoots his bow while moving.


CBR

[barocca]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
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http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

and about time too.....
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[Voigtkampf]

Yes, the (in)famous Parthian shot has been long announced, but I myself am still somewhat uncertain to whether this will mean that ALL horse archers can fire while moving? Perhaps, and only the Parthian archers have the ability to shoot backwards, while retreating? Hopefully so http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[Aelwyn]

yes its been announced for some time that some horse archers are able to fire while on the move. i suspect that this might apply to all of them, as it is clearly stated in one of the videos I watched that people on elephants are not able to fire while on the move. so, this makes me think that those on horses are able to. otherwise, they were stating this for no reason...which could be.

[oblivious maximus]

Im trying to picture a Cantabrian Circle where they stop to shoot. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[Husar]

Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ July 10 2004,09:23)]yes its been announced for some time that some horse archers are able to fire while on the move. i suspect that this might apply to all of them, as it is clearly stated in one of the videos I watched that people on elephants are not able to fire while on the move. so, this makes me think that those on horses are able to. otherwise, they were stating this for no reason...which could be.
The video on my Gamestar-DVD from last month shows Archers firing from moving elephants.

[hundurinn]

In MTW there were only ONE units that really pissed me off and those were the horse archers. They slowly killed my troops and ran away when ever they got attacked. Usually I used my knights to attack them so they would flee thus weakening my assault force. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif Now a new era of frustration will begin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (Husar @ July 10 2004,03:49)]The video on my Gamestar-DVD from last month shows Archers firing from moving elephants.
Oh really? Good. I'd rather all but foot archers be able to fire on the move.

[Steppe Merc]

All horse archers should be able to use the Parthian shot, since it was hardly just a Parthian move. I agree that all but the foot should be able to fire on the move. I wonder if they could fire while moving foward? That would be good for horse javilneers, they chuck their javelin, and they crash home right after the javelins hit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ceasaryes.gif

[Kommodus]

Hm, I haven't been able to find any information about what the Cantabrian circle actually is, but then I'm not really an expert on military history. Maybe one of you has better information.

Just from the sound of it, though, the "Cantabrian circle" sounds more like a defensive move or formation. It sounds like something distinct from the Partian shot; that is, distinct from the ability to fire while moving. I'm sure the Parthian shot will be a very cool ability, but this sounds like something else.

Does anyone know what the Cantabrian circle really is?

[barocca]

ride around your opponent shooting into them,
any attempt to intercept you and they risk opening themselves up for a rear charge from the portion of your unit that they are not charging at,
besides which you simply move with them, adjusting your "circle" as you go...

it will be interesting to see how CA define and impliment the cantabrian circle...

B.

[Ironside]

Do we have crossbowmen in RTW? Please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_fainting.gif

Wait we got slingers, they had alot of ammo, right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif


Or else I'm gonna have a lot archers in my armies, when fighting horse archers, considering that your biggest threat is running out of ammo. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[The Wizard]

Slingers should be the counter to horse archers, as in history.



~Wiz

[Kommodus]

I just hope slingers will have good range. I wonder how the range of slingers will compare to that of archers. I'm not quite sure how it was in history, but in the TC battle of Marathon, the Persian archers fired first as the team's troops approached. It wasn't until the team's army got a little closer that the Persian slingers opened fire. Even if slingers are outranged by foot archers, they should at least have greater range than horse archers. I do know that slingers had considerable range and power in ancient warfare.

[Maedhros]

As Barocca defines it the move sounds very good. But it sounds like you would need to isolate a small group of enemy, or will they simply surround the entire eneemy formation?

Can you select a target, or range?

Unless I'm facing artillery, I tend to hold to tight, deep formations. Only opening the formation to take advantage of enemy deployment weaknesses.

[Oleander Ardens]

The Cantabrian cycle was trained on a regulary basis by the later imperial roman cavalry, according to Arrian.

Basically the riders formed a circle in front of the enemy line and wheeled, throwing one after the other their javelins with great accuracy and great power (E kin = m (V a + V b)² ) against a relative small piece of the enemy frontline, trying to breaking it up..

V a = speed of the Horse
V b = speed gained by throwing the javelin

A good source about horsearchers using such formation is here:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/Arrian4-4-6-7.html

I hope that it allows the player to shoot with high accuracy and to skirmish at the same time away from the enemy..

Cheers

OA

[Omegamann]

I also would interpret the Circle as being performed in frot of the enemy and not around it.
That would then be simmilar to the parthian shot, only that the parthians rode up to the enemy, then turnd around and shot while going away from the enemy line.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (voigtkampf @ July 09 2004,23:51)]Yes, the (in)famous Parthian shot has been long announced, but I myself am still somewhat uncertain to whether this will mean that ALL horse archers can fire while moving? Perhaps, and only the Parthian archers have the ability to shoot backwards, while retreating? Hopefully so https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif
I think only the 'elite' will be able to do so eg parthians or skythians