Rebel army sizes?

[afrit]

I'm sure this has been hashed before.

When a rebellion occurs, what determines the size and quality of rebel stacks?

I can think of a few factors that I felt made a difference
1. The year. Later years produce more rebels with better units
2. THe number of rebellions in the province. Later rebellions are worse.
3. Re-emergence vs peasant vs loyalist rebels. Reemergences are always worst. Loyalists are next.
4. Number of buildings in province. I have sacked some provinces when raiding and then emptied the province. THe rebellions that result seem to be puny, and I am guessing it is because of the low development of province.

Can anyone confirm #1,2,and 4 for me. I am certain of #3 (and others have mentioned it).

THanks

Afrit

[katank]

number of men you have in the province also influences the size ie. the more guys you have, the more the rebellion has.

[Darth Binky]

I've noticed that point #4 influences what units the Rebels get, especially for (Re)emergences or Loyalist revolts (i've never paid attention to the other types of revolts). I don't know what effect, if any, they have on how many units the Rebs get. But they do seem to get whatever upgrades you've got in your province when they appear.

Thus, it's a really bad idea to build Armorsmiths or Master buildings in Khazar before 1230.... there's no need to make the Horde better than it already is

[Despot of the English]

The rebellions in the Medmod are truly gigantic. I've seen something like 5,000 Rebels in each of Lithuania and Novgorod. Needless to say any attempts to conquer them were swiftly and bloodily repulsed.

[RedKnight]

I ditto what Katank says. hey Katank, you think it matters what tech the guys you have in the province are? It's seeming like it matters, to me. Can't be sure though. This is for peasant rebellions.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Quote[/b] (afrit @ July 12 2004,22:05)]

Quote[/b] ]I'm sure this has been hashed before.

When a rebellion occurs, what determines the size and quality of rebel stacks?

I can think of a few factors that I felt made a difference
1. The year. Later years produce more rebels with better units

True to an extent, later rebels will be better troops, earlier rebels will be lesser troops but the numbers actually change the other way around. Earlier rebellions will likely be things like archers, peasants and urban militia (in the catholic half of the world anyway) and will actually have more in numbers, but a lot less in firepower. Later rebellions will be far better troops, but not so many peasant hordes (though you still get some).


Quote[/b] ]2. The number of rebellions in the province. Later rebellions are worse.

Actually as far as I've found no. What you will find is that if you take a province but don't keep the loyalty up and it falls back to rebels, then the loyalty will be even harder to get up if you charge back in. If you beat back the rebellion without loosing the province, the loyalty will go up and the chance of future rebellions (at least immediately) will go down.


Quote[/b] ]3. Re-emergence vs peasant vs loyalist rebels. Reemergences are always worst. Loyalists are next.


True, but you missed out a few.

Re-emergences are often the worst, they have better units than most other rebellions and definitely have more of them, they also very often have rebels already in existence join their cause. For example I have killed the French king, all of France goes rebel instantly, but the very next year they re-emerge, all 20,000 troops that went rebel pledge allegiance back to them, plus the re-emergence itself gave them 15,000 troops.

Bandits can be seen as the next worst, but only in types of units, not in numbers. Bandits appear when there is no castle in a province, or a garrison of less than 100 men (they usually need the loyalty to go down as well, but not if there is no castle). They are always very good troops, often with high starting valour and moderate command stars.

Loyalist rebellions are next, they are usually the kind of troops the country they are loyal to has, and can be huge rebellions depending mostly on the size of your army present. They can happen with a very small dip in loyalty in recently conquered provinces, and therefore have huge numbers in them.

Peasant revolts are the most common in my experience, involve huge numbers of crappy troops and make excellent training exercises for princes and generals.


Quote[/b] ]4. Number of buildings in province. I have sacked some provinces when raiding and then emptied the province. The rebellions that result seem to be puny, and I am guessing it is because of the low development of province.

Not really true. Rebellions don't require buildings, and buildings only influence the troops in a rebellions slightly, you can still have archers in a rebellions in a province with no boyer, but armorer and metalsmith DO seem to add there bonuses to rebels created there. The reason for your puny rebellions was you had no troops there, and the rebellion is only as bog as the force they are rebelling against (ish). So no troops makes for a tiny uprising.

One you missed that I suspect, but can't confirm, is loyalty itself. If you are on 0% loyalty I suspect you get a larger/worse rebellion than if you were on 99% loyalty. this is only a suspition.

[katank]

I think your troops quality of garrison also matters.

the rebellions are always just enough to beat down your troops in autocalc which requires you to command personally and maneuver.

[Blodrast]

Quote[/b] (Sociopsychoactive @ July 13 2004,09:53)]Bandits can be seen as the next worst, but only in types of units, not in numbers. Bandits appear when there is no castle in a province, or a garrison of less than 100 men (they usually need the loyalty to go down as well, but not if there is no castle). They are always very good troops, often with high starting valour and moderate command stars.
I am not sure this is entirely true. I was fooling around farming some vnv's on one of my generals on a bandit rebellion in Khazar. The loyalty of the province was crappy, and my general was alone each time, so no chance of getting loyalty back. Each year I would send my general there, kill them all, and not even have to retreat, because its presence alone was not enough to boost loyalty to a sufficient value.
The rebels were _always_ crap troops (i.e. archers, peasants, spearmen, sometimes xbows and arbs). This was in end of High - beginning of Late.