Give me guidance of choice

[Colovion]

As the subject says - I've had my fill of Catholic and Orthodox campaigns and want my hand somewhere else - what is a a good one? I was thinking of Almohads or Turks.... what are the good and bad things for either one?

[Mith_]

Non-Catholic/Orthodox... i.e., Muslim?

I just played a campaign as the Turks and they are extremely fun, with a nice position and great units. You have the two juicy targets of Egypt and the Byzantine Empire to start off with. You can blitz Egypt and trap the Sultan to raise ridiculously large amounts of cash from ransom and later trade with Antioch, Tripoli, and Egypt. You start off with very nice cavalry-based armies in the form of Turcoman Horse and Armenian Heavy Cav, with good archer/hybrids like Futuuwas and Turcoman Foot coming in later. Things really get fun, however, when 1205 rolls around and you get Janissaries, balanced stacks of which are nearly unstoppable in High. Over all, they're both a very powerful and very fun faction.

[Colovion]

haha - yeah I meant Muslim https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

I was leaning towards the Turks, thanks you tipped me over the edge

[Chimpyang]

I actually suggest the almohads cos they get weaker as play progresses and provides a challenge if you limit yourself a little bit.

[katank]

turks are more fun as time goes on.

almos are more challenging as it goes but packs of AUMs are virtually unstoppable in early.

[Musashi7]

I personally LOVE the Egyptians. If i can manage to take out the Almohads and Spanish quickly enough, it's smooth sailing. I almost never have financial problems. Once the Byzantines and the Turks start fighting, move in and take them both out Build up a navy to invade Italy and the entire Mediterranean is yours

LONG LIVE THE EGYPTIANS https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-egypt.gif

[katank]

moving on Syria the first turn is almost a necessity.

it make little sense to go west as having to shuffle troops along North Africa makes you vulnerable to a stab.

securing the golden triangle between Egypt, Const., and Georgia/Khazar is the best.

[Musashi7]

I find that the Almahods can give me quite a headache if I don't take them out quick fast and in a hurry. Maybe it's just me though, lol. As for the Golden Triangle, I find that it's easier to take once the Turks and Bizs have started whittling each other away. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_duel.gif

[Colovion]

I think I'll play the Turks pretty conservatively - building a large trade empire and then expanding and attacking en masse after the GH arrives. I have actually never had a game go long enough for it to even happen to me. I was thinking of expanding west as much as my navy allows, then waiting for the Horde - once it arrives it'll be in the Byzantine's area (probably) and that will weaken the Byz for my exploitation.

Then again I might get greedy and take Const. even though I hope to make the Byz to be one of my closest Allies and concentrate on invading countries far from me.

[katank]

how can you guys live with factions that close to you?

they border on so many of your provinces.

the Eggy absolutely must have Syria as the strike opportunities for the Turks from there is too great and garrisonning everywhere with sufficient force would bankrupt you.

The Byz are virtually wrapped around the Turks.

waiting for the GH to arrive is a bad idea.

if the Byz survive, they become very difficult to take out.

if they get 20 or so turns of development, they can field pure Byz inf and treb archers which under legendary katank princes are virtually invincible.

[ah_dut]

Quote[/b] (katank @ July 18 2004,23:57)]if they get 20 or so turns of development, they can field pure Byz inf and treb archers which under legendary katank princes are virtually invincible. whack the byz first thing then the problem is cured, nip it in the bud so to speak
basically m8, the force is with them not you, heard of my replay meet the jedi, i'vee got it somewhere, 50 valour katank prince rips apart entire turk army. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

50 valor? surely you are exaggerating

the Byz heirs have caused me much aggravation.

the can somehow kill half my army and leave, sometimes not even massed archery will bring them down for a while.

[Colovion]

I think I buggered this campaign.

THe eggy's are harder to get rid of than I thought - probably because I waited too long to attack. Now the Byz have the largest army and I'm struggling to get rid of the Eggy's and losing too many battles. I really hate losing campaigns.

[RollingWave]

If you wait as the turks for more than 6 turns before attacking the eggy or byz ur probably not going anywhere... both of them start with very wealthy land but a tiny army and horrible production ability (compare to the zie of their empires... ) while the turks are almost the other way around... they start with a lot of horse archers which neither the byz nor the eggies' starting army can deal with .... but you start with considerablly poorer lands (ok it's still rich but compare to antioch and constaninople .....)

YOU MUST RUSH as the the turks...

As the eggies... if you dont' take syria and go after the almos first... i fail to see how you can pull off a win unless the setting is really low or ur REALLY good... having the bulk of ur army stuck across the long stretchs of north africa against the almos (who start with better unit producing capability than you) while the turks can back stab 4 of ur province is not a great idea.....


Overall i think in early the eggies are the hardest to play while the almos are the easiest... (as their objective is quiet obvious... kill.. the... spanish) turks can be really easy (if you blitz egypt) or extremely hard (if you wait around and build)

army make up wise in early turks >>>>>> all, i'm serious... only a byz/novorgod army could match them and those are FAR harder to tech to compare to Armenian heavy cav and turcoman horse with saracen spear.... (comapre that to katanks and PAs etc... not to meantion the lack of anything but vinilla spear really screws byz....)

Almos are very powerful in early too cause you basically get cheap CMAAs that require much less to build.... nothing but a good knight's charge (and horse archers... which you won't face since all of the early HA faction are far from you) combine with a pretty solid lineup in everything else... they are hard to beat... by high on though they will become a bit weaker but if you have VI it's not as bad as you get Faris....

Eggy in early is considerablly weaker than the othr 2... they don't have horse archers in early and they don't have a good sword unit at all... (the combination of both is bad :P) they need to fight their way to get access to good heavy cavs too.... (though it's a very rigged heavy cav once you get it goign :P)

But eggy start with the best lands though... almo's position is very good too as the iberian have vast trade while North africa have mining... (and pretty much only 1 bad farming province) and the iberian's position is better to start trading too .... turks start with the worest but won't really matter since eggy's land = ur land in like 3 turns XD

[Armchair Athlete]

Yeah if you are playing the Turks you will need to take out the byzantines ASAP. If you are lucky they will give up Costantinople without a fight. You dont want to let them build up. I have watched those jedi Byzantine generals take apart even Janissary Heavy Infantry with relative ease. Once I had an 8 star byzantine general with ridiculous bonuses to valour (killer instinct, Brave beyond Belief, and the one that comes from too many failed assassination attempts) defeat a unit of my JHI in a forest. Just a head on charge, nothing special. Very deadly.

[Drake]

When playing Muslims, depending on the faction:

Almohads must knock out Spain quick as possible and if necessary Aragon as well, securing up to Navarre as soo nas they can. If Spanish get any time they will come at you hard and surely be backed up by Crusades from the like sof the French and HRE. The sooner you knock the Spanish out the better your odds.

Egyptians/Turks must grab Syria, as Katank notes, from each other quick as they can. Egyptians are best suited for this as the Turks will be attacked by Byz 9 time sout of 10, it's a sure thing more or less, so don't be afraid of any retaliation. Turks have it very hard, they are in my opinion one of the most difficult and challenging factions to play. Turks start with Syria so moving in troops ther eis a god idea, possibly best to build them there yourself as weakening borders gives Byz incentive to come at you and they are mighty guys at the start. One point to exploit would be that the Sicilians are likely to attack Naples from them so prehaps use that as a way to launch your own offensive while their distracted. A key to beating Byz is to avoid their high ranking generals, defeating lower ones and taking provinces will lower influence and morale/loyalty then pulling out yourself before a counter attack comes and launching another into the province the good general is coming out of. This will give you your best as it is liekly to eventually trigger a civil war in the Byz empire if you do it enough, and you clean up afterwards, at least this works for me. Also, your main advantage is to hire mercenaries double quick, as it'll give you good strong troops straight away that you can use to launch your assault. The cost is very steep so be careful here, if a unit is beaten down to about 3 men then disband it, it's just taking up space. Smae time manufacture as many of your own home grown guys as you can.

Good luck.

P.S - If any of that is wrong please tell me, it seems to work for me, just.

[Jihad2Death]

Gotta choose the Turks,best faction in the game.They have everything you will ever need.Great units,and once you can make Janissary troops,look out.You don`t have have to worry about the Pope which puts them above every Catholic faction,plus you can send Jihads,which puts them above the every Orthodox faction.If you want to get the money flowing,grab Costantinople,and Egypt,add that to Armenia,and Edessa which you already have,and you have all the money you will ever need.The Turks provide a great challenge,because you are subject to multiple Crusades,and you want to you have to deal with the Golden Horde,or you can head east and not fight them.

[Colovion]

yeah I'm going to have to restart this campaign - the Eggies have dug themselves in and the Byz are looking like they want to invade soon.

[Ludens]

The Turks have good units, which get even better once you hit high, but they are in an awkward position and need to fight off two enemies. However, if you manage to conquer Georgia and Constantinople your position becomes a lot better and you can take out the Egyptians at ease.

The Egyptians are rich, which makes up for a lot, but have a bad royal line and need to take Syria quickly. Then they probably need to attack the Byzantines. During this, you can expect crusades coming at you from two directions. Their unit roster also is lacks some punch: all good units except Saracens require a build-up. However, unlike RollingWave claims, they do have two horse archer units: faris and mamluk HA, both available in early,.

The Almohads have an easily defendable position and potential for making a lot of money. They can punch into Spain and get the iron. Their units are decent: light stuff but also the deadly Almohad Urban militia. They also get Berber camels and faris, though both require some build up. Problem is: this is all they are going to get, so you need to be agressive.

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (Colovion @ July 18 2004,15:10)]I was thinking of Almohads or Turks.... what are the good and bad things for either one?
If you like to fight, play Almohads. If you like to crush your enemies into dust through sheer strategic power, play Turks.

All this assumes you're in the early era.

Almohads have to fight for everything they get. They start with a serious war with Spain. Their provinces aren't extremely rich, either.

Turks can use the patented katank ransom blitz, wipe out the Egyptians and have Egypt, Tripoli and Antioch right off the bat.

Two or three king's ransoms gives them a head start that just can't be beat. If you push hard enough, you will soon have an empire guarded by three bottlenecks -- Constantinople, Georgia and Egypt (or preferably Cyrencia).

Build up a navy and watch your florins roll in. Turks get a lot of good units, but people overlook how good their ships are. The ability to cross high seas rather than crawl along the coasts gives a big advantage in the Mediterranean.

Control of the seas allows concentration of Jihads at the point of your choosing. Many of those Jihads will contain Janissary units, once you build a Grand Mosque in Constantinople.

Built up fortifications and attack the Horde with massed Jihads -- and swarms of five-star Syrian assassins.

[katank]

actaully, the Turks should blitz the Eggy immediately using my kidnap the Sultan method as outlined in the guides forum and then wipe the Eggy out and establish the 1 province border at Egypt.

then, taking out the Byz by striking through Trebizond into Const. is a great idea.

turks also get discounted ghazis so pump em out.



for the Eggy, ghazis are good units as are the original DAs and nubians which you start with. takes some getting use to.

eggy get discount for camels so camel spamming is amazingly cost effective.

mamluk HAs are only High onwards.


for Almos, heading east is bad idea, take Iberia and Southern France. murabitin inf are awesome troops. they are javs that can melee and also are fast so good for router chasing.

they can help kill the jedi Spanish royals with javs.

[RollingWave]

I meant that the eggies do not have horse archer IN EARLY if i'm not clear enough... for some reason it does seem that mamulek HA CAN be build in early at least on my vinilla MTW.... but even then their tech req is quiet steep (compare to turcoman horse espically) and u'll be pretty close to high when you get them anyway

Eggy have NOTHING on the turks in early... they have 2 extra unit... nubian spear and saharan cav... nubian spear is just a early push over for eggies and isn't much of a threat to the mass HAs... saharan cav are essential for the eggies to stand a realistic chance against the turks.... the turks have acess to a very rigged heavy cav unit that they can start building in 4 turns... and can start buidling horse archer right off the bat... while egyptian will need 2 turn just to start pumping archers.... (which will take 3 more turn to acturally get to the front line too....)

Obviously rich land isn't much of a advantage in the short run when ur army is vastly inferior and ur border is horriblly exposed..... when equally controled without considering rigged jedis or mass merc abuse the turks would have a huge advatnage against the egyptians in the first 10 turns or so ..... (more than enough to sweep them out of the middle east no matter what approach you use)

Egyptian only gets going after they kill the turks.... adn even then they are not as good as the turks can be in early .

[Ludens]

katank, RollingWave, both Mameluk HA and Faris are available in early (VI). Check it in gnome. But otherwise I agree, unitwise the Egyptians are much weaker than the Turks, so they need to kill the Turks before they get going.

[katank]

wow, I knew Faris was ther in early. I could have swore that mamluk HAs were only high onwards though, at least at some point. 1.1 maybe? I haven't played that much Eggy since VI.