Hide behind Guns it Works [Archive]

theforce

07-08-2002, 15:37

1.02 might be the reason l stopped playing shogun. Even if in the past l had to face monk rushes and later on cav rushes the later ashi rushes along with players that were using a shitload of projectile units and with most people playing in green or ironing board totomi looked like an old tactical paradise.
Shogun lost what had me captured.
Many that known me as theforce in the stw times and even later in the early times of LOD clan l was playing around 5-6 hours or even more a day.
Later on though l got bored. I find Quake 3 more fun now.
1.03 was a nice idea but split the community http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

TosaInu

07-08-2002, 16:12

Konnichiwa TheForce san,

How could a stat, that can be swapped back to 1.02 on the fly, under 10 seconds, split the community? How?

This is exactely the same as saying that more than 1 map splits the community, or the choice to host comp or friendly, or any game between some 50 and 99,999 koku, or 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 1v2, 3v1, 1v4, 5v1, Siege, Assassinate, Capture, Halve, Mongol Era or Sengoku Era.

I saw someone, who was very against 1.03 and was the Spiritual Father of this Community Splitting Religion, saying the following last week-end (I had to rub my eyes and made a screenshot of it): 'Xxxx, you play your way and I will play mine.' (Xxxx is the edited name of another person).

The backgrond of this was that Xxxx only wanted to join the game of said person, if he changed it from friendly to comp. As far as I know the two didn't play each other.

I wholeheartely agree with what was said.

All that can be said, is that both 1.02 and 1.03 require certain skills. It's up to every individual player which suits him best, or perhaps both, or all three of the available stats. Or 1.02 combined with any rule.

The only thing that can split a community is baseless quarrelling, buggy code, purposely hurting each others feelings, needs and shortcomings.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

theforce

07-08-2002, 17:15

Inhale tosa http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Anyway since u prooly were in the team that made
1.03 it's logical that u back em up.
Anyway l don't like how things are now since as l have said l have lost my interest in the game since 1.02 since it became a projectile fight and melee units act as support units and not the opposite.
Now l entered the game yesterday and nobody was using 1.03. My point is that even if there is the option to change stats, the 1.03 must have been the solely patch and not having 2 stats to change from.
Imagine how a newbie will react to this. And new need newbies in the community cause we are a very small one(the guys that play online).
In addition even friendlies now are done in ironing board which is boring as hell.
I remember when people said that totomi was boring and things like that.
I really hope that MTW shall restore the balance in the force.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

07-08-2002, 17:17

Go 1.02 10k ironing board comp 140 players 4 max no ashis !!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

There is nothing to do...honour points are the most important thing to "demonstrate" how good one is...where are the old times when HOW you play was the most important thing...the old skool is dying.

Tera.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

barocca

07-08-2002, 17:35

Was strongly against 1.03, but played quite a few 103's at Kocmoc's online bash, and,
well they were all a delight.

another great thing i noticed, when playing 103 was peoples tendency to move away from the endless monotony of flat map battles,

plenty of battles fought in hill country, and around trees, people quitting if the weather is not sunshine and roses was a nice change too.

Would love to see more people willing to play winter battles, they are among my favourites in campaign mode!

Whenever i joined a battle i asked What Stats, and alt-tabbed and swapped and was back in before the game was even full.
NO Problems at all.

No splitting the communty,

I Definately enjoyed my experiences in 103 a whole lot more than a gun duel.
Which is all 102 has become, flat maps and guns.

So from a player who was against an unofficial patch,

103 Rocks !!!!!!!!

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

Tankdogg123

07-08-2002, 18:14

In my opinion the reason no-one plays totomi anymore because in the end it is still a gun war except the defender have a advantage. The guns are just too powful now to regurarly attack these maps and win, or maybe it is just me. I personally used to mind the gun battles but don't now as I try to find a way around it (usually unsuccessful) but hey known I am gonna get beat has mellowed me a bit.

youssof_Toda

07-08-2002, 18:17

it looks like MTV will be more similar to the original STW, ppl who are only used to MI v1.02 will soon see the difference

07-08-2002, 18:26

Quote Originally posted by youssof_Toda:
it looks like MTV will be more similar to the original STW, ppl who are only used to MI v1.02 will soon see the difference[/QUOTE]

I pray for that everyday http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

MI 1.03 resembles a lot old STW, so play that.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

Vanya

07-08-2002, 19:48

I played some 103 games... frankly, I did not notice any difference at all.

That disappointed me. I had all these grand illusions of what 103 could have been... and all I saw was the same old thing.

Maybe I "didn't play it right"... or maybe the others in those games were "gun monkeys" or "rush lackies". GAH!

Whatever the reason... it doesn't change the fact: I saw no difference.

GAH!

Puzz3D

07-08-2002, 20:02

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 07-14-2002).]

LittleGrizzly

07-08-2002, 20:09

look even if the patch does fix problems if it makes people leave and drives away newbies sorry not intrested

MiniKiller

07-08-2002, 20:19

so think i should grab 1.03? also I saw a post but lost it, someone made a new Naginta? thx

theforce

07-08-2002, 20:31

Hehe. Well totomi isn't all about guns. The attacker even in 2v2 can use the left side of the map and deploy his guns there and use the position to move his men from the hill there behind the defenders.
Same applies for the left side of the map. Offcourse if you are silly to do a frontal attack the guns will stop you dead.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

TosaInu

07-08-2002, 20:35

Konnichiwa,

Read the post again, it's not 'backing up'.

More options won't make people leave, 'mature' behavior will.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

youssof_Toda

07-08-2002, 21:22

agree a better game wont scare ppl away, a bad game will scare the vets, newbs are only scared away from little keyboardheroes who only dare to insult and harass ppl on the net.

MiniKiller

07-08-2002, 21:24

can anyone answer my question? plz? thx

Mithrandir

07-08-2002, 21:28

some people like it some people dont, check it out for yourself, I personally havent installed it yet...

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

Mithrandir

07-08-2002, 22:02

btw. I've never noticed why guns are so great...I prefer SA, they arent bothered by Rain or snow, they are better in hand to hand and I believe they have a tiny more range, also they fire faster...so they must have much more power...I never noticed this though...

theforce

07-08-2002, 22:06

Guns don't run out so easily and they drop the morale in a faster way!
In addition they are cheaper.

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I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
http://www.dedicatedgaming.com/~angelsofdarkness

Puzz3D

07-08-2002, 22:22

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 07-14-2002).]

Orda Khan

07-08-2002, 22:56

I have not entered a 102 battle for some weeks now because 103 is simply more enjoyable and mainly this is for the following reasons.........
different maps..wrong unit choice, doh!
different armies
longer battles
Well said Barocca. You like winter battles? Me too. Thats something to try for sure it will be great fun I'm sure. BTW that battle on 'Rugged'??? My ally I humbly apologise I could read your chat but could I find you??? Or anyone else for that matter!!!LOL, what a map.
I have nothing against ppl who choose 102 or comp or whatever, as Tosa says it is one of the many choices of this great game.
Vanya...No difference??? Orda's horses can now at least reach guns, before they would run at the whiff of gunpowder.
OK then I think a nice winters day attacking some hills in blizzard conditions is called for. Everyone welcome - battle first 'best snow sculpture' judged later.
(Bring the thermals)........Orda

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" Send us your ambassadors and thus we shall judge whether you wish to be at peace with us or at war..if you make war on us the Everlasting God, who makes easy what was difficult and makes near what was far, knows that we know what our power is."

MiniKiller

07-08-2002, 23:05

so i probibly will get 1.03 then seems more honourable and more of a challenge, hey thc for the link but do you have a link for a picture of the new naginta? thx
and how come the sligh white would appear on the YS and not the naginta? has anyone done anything to the horses? i hate how they all look the same, lol

[This message has been edited by MiniKiller (edited 07-08-2002).]

barocca

07-08-2002, 23:12

piccy http://pub24.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm1.showMessage?topicID=3899.topic

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

barocca

07-08-2002, 23:19

minor speckling of flags of naginata - too many errant pixels to track them all down,
change of index colours for flag overlay between stw and we/mi,
have been changed again for mtw - http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
horses too much work to change- http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

MiniKiller

07-08-2002, 23:30

nice! now i see little white spots is that all there is? its not to to bad, and ya horses would be hard but worth a shot?

barocca

07-09-2002, 00:14

no time for me at the moment,
am running 4 websites now...
2 Doragon plus TotalWar Strategies and Hints plus Doragon Medieval - very busy boy at the moment i'm afraid,
(Doragon did have 3 webmasters, plus STWS&H had 4 webmasters - but it's only me now...)

if you want to have a look at the work involved simply goto the recent downloads here at the org and have a read of the bif edit faq...

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

MizuKokami

07-09-2002, 00:20

i wasn't on the team that made the 103, and in all honesty...i really didn't see the need for a total overhaul. but now that it is done, let me tell you this. the diversity of armies i've seen with 103 is amazing. people...get the 103 unofficial patch, what's the worst that could happen. you might have to delete a file or two at worst.(but only if you don't like it) and if you do like it, then your enjoyment becomes greater http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif. doesn't seem to be much of a hassle at all...and i'm sure that the people who use 103 would be more then willing to help in any way they can.

Krasturak

07-09-2002, 00:34

Quote Originally posted by barocca:
Was strongly against 1.03, but played quite a few 103's at Kocmoc's online bash, and,
well they were all a delight.
[/QUOTE]

Try it, you will like it. gah.

todaswarriors

07-09-2002, 01:55

Well yes guns rule in 1.02 but i still loose..... :-(
1.03 is much more intence.I quiet often lie down after a game of 1.03 & have to wait for my head to finish shaking.
Unfortunatley 1.03 is still in the minority...Shame, my old monk pals have much more fun.they do love the 1.03 frenzy
OoOMmMnNnNNNNnnnn...

Dionysus9

07-09-2002, 03:05

Quote Originally posted by Vanya:
I played some 103 games... frankly, I did not notice any difference at all.

. . .

Whatever the reason... it doesn't change the fact: I saw no difference.

GAH![/QUOTE]

I agree w/ Vanya, I played a 1.03 and didnt notice an iota of difference. Perhaps the reason is that I am a crude player w/ no attention to the details, but I was still hard pressed to issue all of my orders accurately and on time, and my guns ended up winning the day as usual. Another reason may be that I have been playing a balanced army for a long time: 4 guns, 2 archers, 2 ca, 2 yc, 3 ys, and 3 monks/dachi.

BTW, my monks got torn the hell up in 1.03 just like in 1.02. I think I'm sticking to dachi either way. The difference between 1.02 and 1.03 still eludes me.

[This message has been edited by Dionysus9 (edited 07-08-2002).]

LittleGrizzly

07-09-2002, 06:46

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
MiniKiller,
Grizz,

No way do I believe that Dom left because of v1.03. He was already dissatisfied with the game, and v1.03 didn't fix it enough to suit him. No one else has left, and some have actually come back to try v1.03. I don't care how much time you put into mastering v1.02. I put in a lot of time as well, but I want something better.

MizuYuuki ~~~[/QUOTE]

ok i dont now how many times he has said this 1.03 IS the ONLY reason he left it is it is it is !!!!!

TosaInu

07-09-2002, 15:20

Konnichiwa,

Let's assume that Dom left because of 1.03 (which he didn't, as I regularly see him in the foyer, he doesn't use the Dom nick. I admit that that might be very confusing, but the registering system -the source of all evil- is made by CA/EA. And despite many suggestions by fans to change this poor system, it hasn't).

But lets just assume that Dom left because of 1.03. Why would 1.03 then be a commutity splitter? Does Dom represent 50% of it, or even any significant amount?

I can tell you that 1.0 did much more to split this community, the old STW server had regularly 100 people online at the same time, that was 10-25 for MI 1.0 on the new server. So that was much more than 50% and not in any way the work of fans.

There wasn't really a choice when MI 1.0 was released, so I can understand that people left. Dom however did have a choice: play 1.02 or 1.03. Just like he has the choice to play comp or friendly, 1v1 or 2v2, iron board or rugged, 51 koku or 99,999 koku, sengoku or mongol, Halve the enemy or KOH, with or without additional rules.

I should make a macro for this text.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

Mithrandir

07-09-2002, 19:12

can someone sum up the major things changed with 1.03 ? how did they weaken guns, are HC worth the trouble now? did they get rid of super ashis?do thunder bombers still blow up 22 of their men in the 4th throw ?etc etc. etc. just the major changes please...

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

barocca

07-09-2002, 19:42

Mithrandir,
the changes are summarised in the read me file that comes with the donwload

also what is you website addy, you keep mentioning things hosted there, but I don't know it, so cannot go and look....

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

Mithrandir

07-09-2002, 19:49

still doubting if I'll start another site, got all he basics from my other site, if I get some material I see if I can get hosted by ***********, will release the name when I've got permission and then you'll get the addy,I'll be sure to spam it whenever I can when it gets online http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif.

damn now I have to go and download the patch...

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

Vanya

07-09-2002, 20:12

GAH!

Vanya has both 102 and 103, and has no problems playing either thanks to the wonderful tool he authored.

GAH!

So... I wouldn't see it as a 'splitter' of people, but just an option... as has been stated ever so often.

Sure, most games online are 102. But having 103 gives me the option to join a 103 game should one pop up.

It just means the forest is a little denser... there are MORE heads to cleave than before...

GAH!

Though I still didn't "see" the difference. I had this pre-conceived notion that Ashigaru were 120-man units in 103. When I saw the usual 60, I was greatly disappointed. Perhaps that contributed greatly to the perception I had that nothing had changed. The feel is the same between the two.

GAH!

Now, if Ashigaru WERE 120-man units with 60-man sized armies... GROOVY, BABY!

But, I'll wait 'till MTW to get such things...

Puzz3D

07-09-2002, 20:29

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 07-14-2002).]

Mithrandir

07-09-2002, 20:34

Thanks a lot!
tough choice since I mostly play offline but these things sound great to play online with, does the versionswapper or something like that actually work, and if so can I change the versions within a minute or so ?
(are the HC upgraded a bit?)
Thanks again.
-Mithrandir-

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

barocca

07-09-2002, 22:36

you can change stats in under 10 seconds without having to shut shoggy down at all,
before you move on to the unit selection screen simply alt tab out, have a shortcut to the statswapper on your desktop, hit it, when it's loaded select which stat set from the buttons and back into shoggy you go.
providing you're not using a plain pentium the whole precess is complete in under 10 seconds.

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon (http://doragon.cjb.net)

Mithrandir

07-09-2002, 22:56

I am using a pentium...or do you mean the speed ?
tis a PIII 700,128 MB ram,GeForce 2 32mb ,dont really know any other important things...
thanks, in that case I'll download it both http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

Puzz3D

07-10-2002, 03:27

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 07-14-2002).]

rageXghost

07-10-2002, 04:25

CUB you show wisdom for one so young

Ghost

http://www.gdarkness.com/4degrees/anigho~1.gif

Dom

07-10-2002, 04:38

Quote Originally posted by TosaInu:
I saw someone, who was very against 1.03 and was the Spiritual Father of this Community Splitting Religion, saying the following last week-end (I had to rub my eyes and made a screenshot of it): 'Xxxx, you play your way and I will play mine.' (Xxxx is the edited name of another person).

The backgrond of this was that Xxxx only wanted to join the game of said person, if he changed it from friendly to comp. As far as I know the two didn't play each other.

[/QUOTE]

Those are my words.

Spiritual father of the Community Splitting Religion? nice title, but a bit misguided, don't you think?

The "background" is rather poor, you should have been taking some time scrolling up or reading carefully instead of rubbing your eyes and getting all excited.

In all my complaints, I have never said anything about splitting the community, everything I said was from personal, egocentric perspective. I also said that the patch was made to suit the intereset of the creators of it and that I didn't like the changes. And i dare you find the quote of me saying anything about splitting the community?

As far as i am concerned there is no "community". There's me, my friends and people who join my games, and some others who spoil the fun, *hint* *hint*

And if you are saying that I didn't leave the game because you see me in the foyer under the Ryurik name from time to time then may i wish you having all the members in your clan being that active. I played 5 games in last month, apart from that I came in to say hi to some folks, besides everyone (everyone that i am bothered about) knows my online nick and even WHY I use this nick

Oh well, just leave me alone and if you are going to bring something else up them make at least sure its correct.

Regards, Ryurik

Puzz3D

07-10-2002, 06:13

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 07-14-2002).]

Mithrandir

07-11-2002, 00:50

Puzz3D

Thanks a lot for your post,it was nice to read, again,I'll check it out and hope to play you online some day, once I can actually hope to win from someone..

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untouchable, unbreakable,elven spirit,Elven soul

Cheetah

07-11-2002, 00:51

Hm, back to topic http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Quote Originally posted by FasT:
Is it gun Just Gun WarFARE!
102 is a gun battle
103 more tactic thinkin

UR views?
[/QUOTE]

IMO, it depends. The efficiency, hence the dominance, of guns depends on whether you can create and defend a joint gunline, that is whether you can force your opponent(s) to accept the gun duel. Obviously this is the easiest in 1v1, flat map games, that is why guns indeed dominate these type of games. However, this becomes more and more difficult as you add more and more players. It is even more difficult if these players are random picked and dont form an experienced team (clan). That is, 2v2 flat map is still a gun battle, 3v3 flat maps are mostly (depending on teams), but 4v4 flat maps are almost never. It is very rare that the defenders can form and defend a joint gunline in a 4v4 game, thus the classic gun duel phase is almost always missing from these battles (as Magy said once that 4v4 games already start with chaos! That is why I love them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif ). Of course, this is not to say that guns dont have an important role in these battles! So allies plz dont leave your guns at home!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Moreover, terrain has a great influence on whether the defenders can force a gun duel (i.e can form and defend a joint gunline) or not. Obviously forests and hills dont favour the gun duel, thus forested/hilly maps can eliminate the gun duel phase even in 2v2 or 3v3 games. IMO that is why Ichiga no toshi (spelling?) is a favourite map for 2v2 games, and Wakasa, Omi or Harima are favourite maps for 3v3 or 4v4 games.

Dionysus9

07-11-2002, 02:07

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
barocca,

You can swap the stat anytime before the game launches into the 3D battle screen. Just be quick enough with the ALT TAB, swap and return to Shogun that you don't time out from the game you have joined . . .

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~ [/QUOTE]

What!? Are you saying I can buy my units and THEN swap to 1.03?? So I can buy ashi for 1.02 prices and then switch to 1.03 before they arrive on the battlemap? Please tell me its not true.