Surprisingly Effective Units

[Colovion]

What units have you been surprised were SO good or even good at all?

I was surprised to find out that Thralls aren't total rubbish and could hold a flank in deep formation against a little Cav, but I shouldn't have been that surprised, but I thought them no better than peasants.

Longbows also surprised me at their effectiveness vs armour units. I had four units of LBs and the enemy sends one of their Heirs in the form of Royal Gaurd out to attack my front lines - strangely with no backup. They start getting rained with arrows and falter about 50 feet in front of my units and they just got slaughtered with arrows coming from all across my lines. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Made me smile.

The Vangarian Gaurd also amazed me.

I hear that Napthas can be pretty devastating as well.

[IrishMike]

Kerns surprised me with that evil, sneaky javlin attack. I onced faced a unit of huscarls with only armored spearmen and kerns (1 unit both defalt size). I pinned with the spearmen and javlin with the kerns then charged the rear and won the day. Amazing https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[massamuusi]

1920 fully upgraded joms vikings lose to a hanful of jinettes and javelin throwers on desert....
Almost to last man they die.

[ah_dut]

in the begining jav and naptha frieked my brains out, these days i blow the AI armies to dust with them https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[mdutr0]

Naptha definitely. The first time I actually used them correctly they absolutely decimated a unit of heavy ghulam cav in 2 or three volleys.

Armoured spearmen also surprised me. I used them well into the high era in my Hungarian campaign. They're suprisingly tough and I didn't expect them to hold a line so well even against CS and CK

Halbs just flat amazed me. Same Hungarian campaign they completely ate the Horde's lunch. A unit of MHC would charge, I would counter-charge the halbs, and the unit of MHC would just evporate.

Thanks,

Micah

[WorkNeglecter]

Organ gun.

Wow.

[Darth Binky]

Swabian Swordsmen.

I love these guys, especially in bridge battles. They just rock right through enemy cavalry (due to their AP ability) and through spears (since they have swords).

Just nasty nasty nasty.

[katank]

naptha are simply amazing as are javs against jedis.

it's also possible to get organ guns mercs in high onwards.

I lined up all three types in a bridge defense of kiev and the khan with several units of MHC just evaporated in a blaze of glory.

also, early on, cav is surprisingly effective.

hobilars were able to many many battles for me.

[Colovion]

yeah early on I forged the majority of a vast English empire across all of Europe with primarily Hobs and vanilla spears with a little archery for taste. The Hobs did way more than I expected their hobby horses to

[katank]

I actually used tons of archers in combo with the hobilar. the only stuff that hobilars can't handle well are spears and those can be destroyed using ample archery.

Brits have discount for archers and that's pretty sweet.

[Ecthelion]

Saracen infantry, they just keep going and going and going. The first campaign I ever played, when I was even more tactically naive than I am now, I had armies comprised entirely of Saracen infantry and the still beat everything

[gaijinalways]

Long bows, arbs, xbows. I love shooting the enemy down from a distance

Also kats as they are usually easy to get and with a good valor will keep attacking even down to a few men (sometimes retreat but they will often recover their courage and can be used to harass an AI unit again)

[Gith]

Saracens surprised me as well, with their complete reliability. They aren't pretty and they aren't outstanding, but they have always gotten the job for me.

Organ guns just flat out amaze me. I love watching a unit of 100 FS walk up to it and get dropped down to 60-70 with one volley. Beautiful.

[ConstableBrew]

I absolutely love halbreds. They hold up long enough aginst swordsmen to allow cavalary backup to position itself at the flank and they rock aginst cavalary and heavy armor units. Not to mention they can brush off most arrows.

[Maeda Toshiie]

HAs. Plain ones even, when used playing the turks.

[Duke of Gloucester]

Turcopoles (I know these are HA's). I only play England and these are the only HA's I can have. The first time I used them i thought they were rubbish and gave up on them for a while, but I have returned to them. I used them to harry and annoy and therefore break up a large defensive formation of turks. The turcopoles themselves didn't kill many but they drew infantry units away from the main body, tired them out and made them lose formation. A few charges with CK's destroyed the units. In fact with 2 turcopoles, 2 CK's and 2 Demi-culverins, I defeated most of the enemy before engaging my main force.

In short, I found them very good at breaking up a large defensive army into managaeble chunks. Most of them were killed in the process, but well worth it, I think.

[Ludens]

Any horse archer unit except vanilla ones. It is beautiful to see how they can disrupt their enemies and tear them to pieces. The only thing is that you need to keep a constant eye on them and I cannot do that without the help of the pause key.

[Papewaio]

Spearmen, Saracens, Hobilars and Milita Serjs are all value for money.

[Ulair]

Here's my vote for saracens, hobilars and HAs (even vanilla); all surprised me on first few uses. Also I'll stick in a word for Armenian heavy cavalry: cheap as chips and on a charge-withdraw-charge pattern they cause major havoc https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif . Finally, vanilla archers (in early at least) still surprise me when used in sufficient numbers against even Templars and the like. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[ConstableBrew]

what is HA?

[YAKOBU]

Horse Archer ConstableBrew https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

[katank]

AHC are amazing. with master horse from armenia, you can get v2 ones that are superior to v0 CKs less than 3 decades into the game and cost less than half as much. that is just plain OP.

[Tomassi_Rossino]

The Hashishin are just fantastic. IMO, the range of longbowmen and also being able to camoflage themself without the usage of trees or woods. I thought they were just 16 archers with no real purpose but they are excellent at ambushes. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif

[katank]

they are 12 men units. they can be overwhelmed easily though due to the tiny numbers.

like battlefield ninjas in shoggy, they are just useful for taking out the enemy general and not really much else.

their build reqs are also insane.

[cutepuppy]

from the first campaign I played as spanish, I just loved jinetes. I learnt to appreciate militia sergeants, the english 'v2 combo' billmen from mercia + LBM from wales is also quite easy to get and very powerful. And I discovered the power of simple woodsman in a random battle: I pinned teutonic knights with vanilla spears and charged them in the back: the AP bonus and irresisteble charge just destroyed those pesky germans.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Longbowmen in melee still surprise me, they hold up far better than any other shristion foot archer unit.

UM and militia seargents, maybe even woodsmen I find really great and far better than their price and requirements suggest if used correctly, charged into a pinned armoured unit they wreak terrible damage and hold up reasonably well.

I really fell in love withy naptha when the horde started sieging me, one or two units of it were able to kill or rout half a dozen MHC without taking a hit, without needing to be supported in one siege, though the enemy were demoralised from tower fire.

Swiss pikemen still amaze me, thiough the requirements are a bit steep they make up for it if you get switzerland early enough.

[Bgreman]

I've got to say that the Varangian guard are simply stunning at killing pretty much anything I send them against. Their kill ratio is disgustingly high, and I fear for when I can't produce them anymore.

[ah_dut]

Bgreman welcome to the org https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Huscarles are better than VG, have lower reqs and take 1 turn to build. To be honest though, Vikings make me sick, they are am,amazingly cost effective. Also, woodsmen as previously mentioned are one of the most cost effective units ever https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[SpencerH]

I've seen high morale huscarles chase down my cav units and obliterate anything in their path. Definitely one of the strongest units in the early era.

[MadKow]

I knew they would be good but the first time i got to use JHI , I was in awe.
However the single unit that made a lasting impression on me was a Mounted Sergents unit that was the only cav. i had in a defending desert battle. I was facing a much bigger army. Had my spear line made, i guess a couple of archers.
It was a Gaugamela style battle. The lines clashed and the seargents charged the enemy flank again, and again and again. They had no armor upgrade, so they didnt tire too much.
I started that battle plannin to sell an expensive defeat, and got instead a resounding victory, because of those MS.

Meaning the right unit, in the right situation, with the right leadership will almost certainly excel.

[The_Emperor]

Gallowglasses and Clansmen never fail to impress me... Cheap as dirt and yet they are extremely effective, especially in the Desert

[Tomassi_Rossino]

Today, the Chivalric Foot Sergeants suprised me. I was the Danes against the HRE and I was defending against them on a river. They sent all their troops to my Chivalric Foot Sergeants across the river, under a rain of arrows - but even the archers ran out of ammo fast. The kill ratio after a few minutes was about 300 killed - 15 lost. Needless to say all the rest of the army - around about 800 Vikings and 180 cavalry - were sitting pretty on the river bank watching the water go past while 166 Chivalric Sergeants were killing dozens of men. I look up the hill and I see 17 Imperial soldiers routing. I look at the bridge and there is a sea of black and yellow uniforms of dead soldiers/

[The Grand Inquisitor]

I expected billmen to be good but they really are exceptional for the cost/build requirements.

I used them to chew up the Golden Horde in Lithuania - formed a square in the woods and waited for all that heavy horse to come and play.

They are good at driving across bridges, or holding bridges, though one unit can end up on the other side eventually driving a whole army before it which is not neccessarily good if you're defending.

Pity only the English get them.

Hobilars are good in the early period too - again cheap/easy to build.

[Ranges]

My favorite:
Viking Huscarles... Get them with the english, and get them quick.. They hurt people ;)

Then, i guess it's highland clansmen.. Damn.. That's a painfully high charge / attack bonus.. :)

Those units do a LOT of the killing for me.

[Digenes Akrites]

I've got to put in a word for the good old Byzantine Infantry. Stats-wise they aren't much to look at, but their unit size more than makes up for it. I've run numerous custom battles using byz inf against identically souped-up footmen of other varieties and it turns out that if the byzantines approach in a thin line, they are often able to flank their opponents on both sides and take out statistcally superior units like chivalric men-at-arms. Don't try this if the enemy is armour piercing, though: it's not pretty.

[ichi]

The units that still surprise me are the Camels. Very effective against any cavalry.

ichi

[caravel]

Billmen, Chivalric Sergeants, Saracen Infantry, Bedouin Camels, Hobilars and Fyrdmen. I say these because I had never really expected them to be as effective as they actually are. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

[JimBob]

It's been said but, Woodsmen, dirt cheap to build and keep. But if you wind them up and launch them at a pinned armored unit(MHC on a bridge for instance). And they will cut them to tiny sized pieces, there is not greater joy then piling bodies head deep on a bridge. But the other unit is Viking Huscarls. I knew that they would be good, but a unit of v2 turning some 1200 armored spearmen, and spearmen into mabey 200. That is far beyond what I expected

[Papewaio]

Actually I just got a neat surprise playing Italians in early and seeing how effective... mounted crossbowmen are... lots of Princes and spearmen have learned that a fast moving crossbow is rather nasty... so now I have archers that I use in attack or in defence that is a head hunter unit (goes after the generals unit) which is a job normally for my crack hand to hand troops (or humble spearmen in the case of enemy cav).

[MadKow]

I have to add a word for Gallowglasses here. I'm presently playing an English campaign and was attacked by the king of Spain and his army in Aragon.

I had a unit of Gallowglasses charging the King's RK, killing 3-4 in the charge and making it flee after a few seconds. Then the RK regrouped only the be attacked by the same Gallowglasses and after a fierce melee the Spanish King was dead.

These Gallow were armor +1.

[YAKOBU]

I agree with you Madkow https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Gallowglasses have such a good charge combined with high attack and armour piercing. Does anyone know why you can have highlanders as English in MP but not gallowglasses? I was so looking forward to testing them out https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[ah_dut]

YAKOBU, i don't know why, but mod it, it aint too hard. Then release the mod on the org and we'll play you with it https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Ulair]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ July 24 2004,18:59)]The units that still surprise me are the Camels. Very effective against any cavalry.


I'll second this. I watched 'em chew up a squadron of Hospitallers the other night https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif . My Hospitallers https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif . However, they can't chew up Italian infantry, I discovered shortly afterwards https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

[CherryDanish]

I have NO luck using camels, but after the Eggy AI tossing wave after wave of AHC at me, I had to conquer armenia and lesser armenia to find out how well I could use them. Amazingly low reqs (I can build peasants and AMC in one province, that's it). No armour upgrades for them yet (just starting to wind down my second campaign), but I can't wait to use em. My best unit so far are the AUMs.

[Blodrast]

my greatest shock was during an MP game, when I had 2 units of v2 Lancers chewed up by one unit of v2 or v3 billmen.
One of my Lancers actually flanked them, but to no avail.
The final result was: less than 10 lancers in total made it alive, and they ran away like crazy; the billmen lost about half of their unit..talk about cost-effective units

[Accounting Troll]

My estimation of halbardiers has gone up after I had a single unit of halbardiers cut off and surrounded by eight units of Mongol Heavy Cavalry, and my halbardiers won easily.

Granted they had level 4 armour and their general gave them a +3 valour advantage, but these guys were charged from behind and they are supposed to have poor morale

Halbardiers are now the only unit I use for hand-to-hand combat against the Mongols.

[Mythoss]

Vangarians...first time I faced them they chewed through my CMAA like nothing and took down knights like nothing. Caused more than one rout of a very good army and heavy casualties. Even attacked from three sides they refused to rout...fought till the last man with vikings and calvalry surrounding them. Now I am playing their faction to see if they are that good...they are

[Makuri_Dog]

I have had some really good results with the well known troops (JHI, VG, SAP) but you kinda expect that. The suprising ones are the cheaper units that you find a niche for, kerns when playing VI as irish were damn good if kept them running mopped up a fair few of those Huscarles with them, I had expected to be at a real loss with no archers. I also like the swiss hals for some reason had better going in the desert than i thought they would.

[RollingWave]

Crossbowmens are acturally quiet good if u can't use arbalest... XD

[Sir Toma of Spain]

I am amazed by Vikings, in one battle a single unit took on two units of royal knights and nearly won ( i charged them from behind with my own vikings)

Also Militia sergeants are great units for their cost i managed to build a whole italian empire on mainly militia sergeants during the early period

[Angadil]

Well, I suppose that the original spirit of this thread was about those "humble" units which turn out ot be overachievers... Varangians, JHI and the like are expensive, advanced units so it's no surprise they rock. HAs (and javelin units) I love, but the micromanagement they need might be a problem. Sooo, units which are inexpensive, easy to use and still really effective... Personal favorites: Militia sergeants, mounted sergeants, hobbilars billmen and Saracen Infantry and feudal sergeants.

Cheers
A.

[Oleander Ardens]

Beside the guys mentioned here;

Camel Warriors as the Eggies are so costeffective that it isn't even funny..
Togheter with Horsearchers supreme in the anti-katank role..

In general Naptha/Javelins can do real harm when used rightly, and are too surprisingly good killer...

Trez Archer never fail to impress me toghter with this 8-star Byz generals, only way to beat them at reasonable cost is to kill the General..

Druzhina "Cavalry" are incredibly too...

Cheers

OA

[Ar7]

I have to agree with people who said Gallowglasses, charge them at anything you like, especially nice to kill everything in armor :knight: and look as the enemy dissappears after the initial attack.

[TCon88]

I have to say Billmen, i havent used them in SP but in MP they simply are cracking if you dont want to spend the extra florins on Halbs, they do just as good a job if you pump up the valour a bit.

[katank]

gallows are great for the attack as shock troops but they also lack defence.

they disappear like flies too unless attacking on flank or in rear.

kill fast and die fast is what they do.

they are amazing in the trees against cav though due to the cav penalty in trees greatly muting their attack and downplaying gallow's weak defense.

[Papewaio]

Must admit a cheap army of (sometimes requires a few mercs) Vikings, Gallowglasses, Kerns and Highlanders with few a vanilla spearmen and archers thrown in and you have a rather nasty group.