Byzantine Tactics

[Don Corleone]

Hey guys,
I'm having a little different sort of problem playing as the Byzantines than most of the people I've seen posting topics around here. Without hiring mercenaries, what's the best way to receive cavalry charges as the Byzantines? You don't have any good spear units. Just use generic spearmen and hope for the best?

[cutepuppy]

pin with spearmen, flank with varangian guards or high valour kataphraktoi or pronoiai allagion. Or just counter-charge with one of your jedi kataphraktoi princes, they'll probably defeat any other mounted unit (appart from horse archers)

[Colovion]

why don't you want to hire mercs? they're a wonderful way to bolster an early Byz military

[Gith]

I've been using Byz Infantry. They don't receive the charges well, but thus far they've taken the losses from the charge, and held out long enough to either win the combat or allow another unite of byz infantry to circle and charge from the rear. Byz infantry have thus far in my game have been the standard bulk of any significant force, and have yet to fail.

[Si GeeNa]

Yeah. I think that the Byz Inf recieve Cav just fine. They may not be Spears but their numbers enable them to hold the units long enuf for ur other heavies to get into the fight.

I've always went with Byz Inf as the bulk, complemented by some Trebz and 1-2 Katanks. VGs are for those with a more exquisite taste in tearing things apart.

[Oleander Ardens]

I like to take the charge of very heavy western cavalry with the Byz Tanks - valor two golden armor Kataphraktoi from Consti`s home..

There stellar defense and armor will allow you to hold even the best other cavs for very long. Flanking Vangarians or Byz Lancer will take them than from the flanks and rear..

Cheers

OA

[katank]

vanilla spears are way too weak to eat a heavy cav charge and will often break.

I use katanks in single line spread just in front of my swords and countecharge the enemy cav.

once melee closes, I bring up my Byz inf and Varangs and it's all over for the enemy cav.

the charge is what make cav beat swords. once in melee, the weight of numbers of the swords prevail, particularly the 100 men Byz inf.

[ah_dut]

i like what katank does and do similarly but find that the AI heavy cav can be dealt with by Ha's anyway so they don't really pose that much of a problem as i always say, meet the jedi https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Doug-Thompson]

I'm starting to sound like a registered lobbyist for javelin troops, but nobody else has mentioned them so far.

Byzantines can produce Slav Javs in Bulgaria, and in Serbia too. These are excellent units for destroying Royal Knights who are pinned in melee, although using javelins requires practice. They even help out against larger units of knights.

Beyond that, the best unit the Byz have against enemy cavalry is their own cavalry.

If you can't make the expensive, highly teched units yet, the often-overlooked Byz Lancer is a sort of "medium cavalry" that can't handle knights alone but can certainly work well in combination with Byz infantry. They don't tire as quickly as heavy cavalry. So they can run around behind a unit that's in a melee with Byz infantry, then charge in without getting worn out first.

[katank]

what about naptha? every time doug mentions javs, I have to mention naptha.

agree on byz lancers being great. pump em up and team em up with byz cav and katanks then I don't see much role for ichi's porno cav.

[lonewolf371]

If you want practice with javs, just play HTW. Almost every single ranged unit on that game has javs, and some melee units too. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (lonewolf371 @ July 23 2004,06:00)]If you want practice with javs, just play HTW. Almost every single ranged unit on that game has javs, and some melee units too. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Well, most jav units in HTW have a range almost equal to that of vanilla archers in MTW ;) HTW is really not a good practice ground for someone using javs in MTW :)

[katank]

the only real way to practice with javs is to use javs.

jinettes might be easier to use than most others as they can run away easier when threatened.

[son of spam]

vanilla spears are way too weak to eat a heavy cav charge and will often break.

I use katanks in single line spread just in front of my swords and countecharge the enemy cav.

once melee closes, I bring up my Byz inf and Varangs and it's all over for the enemy cav.

the charge is what make cav beat swords. once in melee, the weight of numbers of the swords prevail, particularly the 100 men Byz inf.

Vanilla spears are actually okay, the problem is you have to have your general close to them and ready to engage in melee when the spears start wavering (for some reason I find that if your gen engages the rest of the army becomes a bit happier). If you deploy correctly they can take a charge from any heavy cav unit (in medmod at least).

[ichi]

In Early Pronoiai Allagion can match any EuroCav charge. Byz Inf that are set to a 5-deep formation hold heavy cav charges quite well.

Later in the game you can use high valor Kataphraktoi (standard Kats have low morale and can be easily turned when doubled) to hold a heavy cav charge, just make sure you start them quickly since they'll take a while to get there.

V1 Varangians can handle almost anything, and when backed up by a Naptha Thrower or Javelin Unit the effects can be quick and deadly.

The Byz, despite their excellent unit selection, can benefit from the addition of Mercs - LBs are better than Treb Archers, and any good spear or polearm unit can make a big contribution (JHI, Bills, Sargents).

Byz Lancers are OK, they are just weaker than Pronoiai, like Mounted Sargents when compared to Feudal Knights. BLancers are OK in the desert, but overall I'd rather have have Porno Cav and Byz Cav as the bulk of my cavalry (and as anti-cav), with a few Kats and BLancers for diversity.

ichi

[katank]

katanks for counter charge is best option although armored up byz inf and varangs can do OK also.

b lancers are exact copies of mtd sarges except for higher support for the higher attack rating.

[hotingzilla]

Is Kataphractoi morale 4 or 8? I forgot.

I use Byz Cavalry to flank and to break enemy formations. Trebizond Archers are pretty good, I still use a lot of them in Late. Arbralesters are good against heavy knights but still I need archers who can arc their arrows.

I use Kats for receiving charges.

[Maeda Toshiie]

Is Kataphractoi morale 4 or 8? I forgot.

I use Byz Cavalry to flank and to break enemy formations. Trebizond Archers are pretty good, I still use a lot of them in Late. Arbralesters are good against heavy knights but still I need archers who can arc their arrows.

I use Kats for receiving charges.

Kata morale = 4
Porno cav morale = 8

However, due to the high ranks of the byz generals, their low (for cavalry) morale becomes a moot point.

Bzy cav are used for turkish HA tactics. Wasted for flanking.

BBs are cheaper in the longer run compared to trebs.

Counter-charge with your katas, as katanks said (dont sit still), or use byz inf in thick formation.

[hotingzilla]

I just still don't know why I seem to see Bulgarian Brigands fire further than Trebizond Archers. I did a lot of tests: firing from the same position and angle, aiming the enemy of same type and size.

Weird. They both use shortbows. Anyone want to try for me? Idon't know if it is just my game.

[Fragony]

I just still don't know why I seem to see Bulgarian Brigands fire further than Trebizond Archers. I did a lot of tests: firing from the same position and angle, aiming the enemy of same type and size.

Weird. They both use shortbows. Anyone want to try for me? Idon't know if it is just my game.

It could be due the the fact that BB are fast and can fire earlier, only explanation I can think of...

[katank]

true.

fast speed is the BB's edge. as Byz, you get v2 fully upgraded treb archers or v1 fully upgraded BB and trebs usually are better raw power wise. however, getting 2 units of BBs for fast maneuvering and flanking could result in better hybrid performance. YMMV